Hi, i just realised as i tryed to make a subclass that actually changes the way wildshape works.
that there is a section called Level override.

the section is there to change the features we add... but wouldn't it be possible to use it to literally override the core classe features ?
i do not know how far this idea could get, but me think since the things are already there, wouldn't it be possible to just allow us to override the actual core class levels with it ?

i mean we can already create class features with the different levels, the only thing stopping us from releasing them is the small restriction on core class leveling.
remove the restriction from following archetype leveling and then allow us to override the actual core class leveling, and we get a full blown class homebrew making software. seems to me like everything is already in there.

one of the homebrew maker already made an entire class and when i tryed it, it actually works.
so i dont think homebrew classes is that far off seriously.

as for me, all i want is the ability to override certain abilities... the archetype i'm trying to do is changing the wildshape of the druid to a companion pet that grows with him. but since im removing wildshape, there is problems with the archdruid capstone and the level 18 beast spells. if i could override them, it would be great.

thanks for reading and your time.

DnD Paladin is talking about using the DnD Beyond (or DDB) tools to create custom classes.   DDB supports custom (aka homebrew) subclasses, but not custom/homebrew classes.  So he is looking for a way around that issue by using homebrew subclasses to approximate a homebrew class.

Quote from Cloudseeker42 >>

So, what does anything you say have to do about Subclasses. If you want to change the core mechanics of a class, it is called a custom class. They already exist, and have since forever. If you are talking about how to do it in DnDBeyond I don't know since I am using roll20, I am just here to talk about D&D with likeminded people and for the fact Roll20 have removed all kinds of forums that are not about finding a group or technical issues (which is disappointing). However in Roll20 not much is actually hammered down, which is why I use it. I don't like dndbeyond because I feel that it is to forced. If I want to make a custom character class all I need to do is to follow the style all classes are made of (stats up at 4th and 8th level for example) and just start making it. However I do not understand what you mean with making a class out of subclasses as that makes literally zero sense as they are SUBclasses.

 what i am wondering is why you are here if you dont like the place... being here for forum only is not really a great deal. there are much better places then beyond for that. like enworld, reddit and other forums of the sort entirely dedicated to talking about D&D.

as for what i'm saying...
its simple... they already gave us the ability to override levels for our subclasses. but they added two restrictions to the subclasses...
1 - cannot add more levels to a subclass then what the core class allow you to. that said, they gave us the ability to add abilities to any levels. so why  limit us to the subclass if we can add more levels already ?

2 - the limitation to the level overrides are that we can change only the levels we added. the core class is already underlying it as we are forced to choose a core class. so why not just allow us to override the core class ability ?

these two limitations are literally the only thing stopping us from creating whole classes. and at least one or two members already created subclasses that actually give you full class access. "Mythical Beast" for druids and i tryed it. it works really... so at this point why keep the limitations and stop us from doing full on classes ?

Quote from Cloudseeker42 >>

DnDPaladin. I do not use DNDBeyond because I feel it is to restrictive unless you buy all of the books which I already own, and even then it is still restricting you. I bring this up because I believe this is the problem you have, you are talking about restrictions holding you back. There is no need to get salt just because I have other preferences.

If you think you can create a custom class, just use the old fasioned pen and paper. If you are held back from doing that, then maybe you either should wonder if you want to do it or you should switch the service. Anything that prevents you from using a character sheet and a pen in the old D&D tradition is a red flag for me. However, my point already stand. What you say doesn't make sense to me. How can you create a class from subclasses? A subclass is nothing but a subclass and the class you pick is the class. But it seems you just want to be the subclass without being the class. In that case you are going far beyond what D&D 5e is built around. The 5e is built around a core class that gives you the majority of bulk abilities, and the subclasses just adds flavor and diversity to the class. If you want to overwrite the core class and just create your own class since that is what you are asking for. There is a system in the class system, there is a system in the levels.

The reason why what you're reading sounds like nonsense is precisely because you don't use DDB.  Which, by the way, is a free service, which is being improved and expanded constantly, which makes your entitled attitude kinda off-putting.  Currently, there is a lack of functionality in homebrew creation, which is the ability to create classes from scratch.  This is not a "restriction" set in place by the creators of DDB, but rather a feature that hasn't been implemented yet.  The feature to create homebrew subclasses, though, is present.  DnDPaladin points out that the ability to create a "class" is nearly present, through a workaround of creating a subclass and overriding many/most of the class's features.

Now, regarding the reason you don't use DDB... that's fine, I don't have a personal stake in whether you use DDB or not: I neither gain nor lose anything from you using it or not.  But let's get the facts straight, please: DDB is free.  It offers the character creation, campaign management, and basic rules at no cost.  You are in no way forced to buy any content in order to create your character as you please, unless your character uses a custom, homebrew class.  If your character uses content from the PHB, DMG, Xanathar's, SCAG, or any other book, you can still make it on DDB, without any purchases; you'll just have to add the content manually as "homebrew".  If you purchase the content here, on DDB, then you can access it directly, without having to "homebrew" it.  From what I understand, the ability to create homebrew classes is coming, it's just not here yet.  For an entirely free product, that's a pretty good bargain I'd say.  There is a limit on how many characters you can have simultaneously, yes.  That limit can be removed by paying for a subscription.  You can always delete characters to make new ones (maybe downloading the character sheet as PDF before, if you want to keep them).  Also, the ability to share purchased content is added by paying for a subscription; but bear in mind you can always share homebrew content (at least I think so!).

All that being said, I'm not trying to convince you to start using DDB.  If it's not something you like, or think you'll enjoy, no problem! =)  But just make sure you're operating with correct information before making a decision. ;D

Quote from Cloudseeker42 >>

DnDPaladin. I do not use DNDBeyond because I feel it is to restrictive unless you buy all of the books which I already own, and even then it is still restricting you. I bring this up because I believe this is the problem you have, you are talking about restrictions holding you back. There is no need to get salt just because I have other preferences.

If you think you can create a custom class, just use the old fasioned pen and paper. If you are held back from doing that, then maybe you either should wonder if you want to do it or you should switch the service. Anything that prevents you from using a character sheet and a pen in the old D&D tradition is a red flag for me. However, my point already stand. What you say doesn't make sense to me. How can you create a class from subclasses? A subclass is nothing but a subclass and the class you pick is the class. But it seems you just want to be the subclass without being the class. In that case you are going far beyond what D&D 5e is built around. The 5e is built around a core class that gives you the majority of bulk abilities, and the subclasses just adds flavor and diversity to the class. If you want to overwrite the core class and just create your own class since that is what you are asking for. There is a system in the class system, there is a system in the levels.

i am not giving you the salt. i'm merely telling you that if you are here for the forum only, there are much better places for having d&d related conversations other then DDB.
just like you, i am not understanding why you'd be here if its not to use the software which is their primary reason to be here. that's all.

as for why im not using pen and paper... i'll just say... you are such a murderer of trees, does this gives you more insight as to why im using computers to do stuff instead of paper ? i'm not a traditionnalist like many of you guys out there... i have some friends who preffers paper... but most of my groups (i DM for 2 groups and i play in 2 others, yes i have 4 games per week) are now all in on cell phone character sheets, there are numerous reasdon why its better then pen and paper. one of which is, it doesn't take them more then 15 seconds to level up. and if need be, they can create a character in literally a minute. which is also a must for me when creating an npc on the spot because most of my NPCs have character levels. i love the homebrew creation they have here, i love what they are doing, i even paid for my books, i even pay a masters subs because 10$ a month is nothing. but thats my own opinion, i am not forcing it upon anybody, nor am i forcing anybody to use DDB if they dont want to. but i have to tell you, all of my friends love the fact i have everybooks, they love the fact i have a master tier subs who can create campaigns. and above all else, they love the fact they can have my books with the now offline DDB app. which means they dont need to bring a school bag full of books or ask the others their books. bringing a tablet or cell phone to the game is much faster and much more efficient then bringing hard covers. thats why most of us are all on digital now.

on your last point. 5E isn't just about new archetypes while keeping the core classes... mike mearl and jeremy crawford as well as christopher perkins and many other d&d developpers already created variants for the same core classes, they even told us that those who preffer the old prestige class system could still do it here by just making homebrew classes. they even encourage people into making prestige classes. that's because the multiclassing ability of the edition is the same as it was in 3e. that said, i'm not trying to create my own druid class... i just want to create a variant class of the druid that works wildshape out of the class and instead brings it a companion. but the problem with why i cannot just do it as an archetype is that the druid core class has a bunch of wild shaping features that aren't part of the archetype. what i want is a variant where wildshape and its related features can be removed. in the end it wouldn't be a new class, it would be a variant class to the druid. the same way they did the variant ranger in UA or the DMsGuild.

@Tonio
nope, its not coming soon... the developpers often say that homebrew classes are very low on their list of things to do because its so hard to give a defined thing to do with it since you can literally anything. thus no its not coming and they been saying for quite sometimes that if it is, and it will at some point, that it is something they are not working on and wont be working on it until they have done next to everything else. which is why i'm writing this thread... it seems ridiculous to push something because of its workings when the subclasses are exactly that to begin with. while subclasses have much less things to develop for, they still have the same complex stuff. so basically by having subclasses already being a homebrew, and by the features they have in the subclasses, we can already make a whole class. so at that point why continu to say its far far down the list when most of what we need is already in the engine ?

this thread is also to see if anybody else have thought of it and what they think about using the subclasses to make an actual new class.