Are Elves Dumb?

All the long lived species take years to become adults and it left me pondering about the intelligence of such species. Why does it take an elf 120 years so accomplish what a human will in 18? I don't know but all of a sudden I have this picture of 14 year old elves still trying to learn their ABCs.

How much time you commit to something is a direct function of how much time you have to commit to something. Let's take baking bread for example—your average human has about 100 years to live, and needs to spend a lot of that time doing stuff so they can live. Let's say 75% of their adult life (20 onwards) is spent sustaining themselves (and sleeping), which leaves 25% free to pursue other things, or about 20 years. They want to learn to make bread well enough to maybe become a baker, so they commit 2 years to learning how to properly prepare the yeast, what kind of flour to use to get which results etc. Now this isn't 2 calendar years, this is 2 years of TOTAL time. Assuming they committed 2 hours a night, every night, that's still 36 years. So from 20 to mid fifties they're mastering the art of bread making. That's 10% of their total free time.

Now let's take an elf who might reach cultural maturity around 100 and live to 800, that's 700 years. Assuming they live the same hectic, work-laden life as a human (which is unlikely), that leaves them 175 years of personal time. Now either they commit the same 2 hours a night for 35 years, which equates to just 1.14% of their free time, or they commit the same 10% and spend 17.5 years mastering bread. Either way, elves have no reason to rush.

Ultimately you're looking at this entirely wrong—elves don't take so long to learning something because they can't learn it any faster, they take so long because they don't need to learn it any faster.

You see this in real life by the way—there's a positive correlation between how much free time someone has (which is usually a function of wealth) and how much time they spend mastering non-vital skills. Being able to woodwork, or cook well, or any other practice contingent skill is an indicator of having more time to commit to learning that skill.

Funny thing I learned in college, which I think about at times. Relative time frames of one persons experiences. Humans take 10-16 years until the start of puberty, and that lasts until they are 24.  Which means final maturity is about 24 years old. 

Cats reach this point in 2 years. Dogs are about the same. Both caats and dogs can understand some human speach, and have been proven to reach the equivalant of a 5 year old humans understanding, or intelligence. 

Dogs and cats might think humans are dumb for taking 5 years to understand the world in the way they do at 2 years. But the reality is it takes us longer to reach full maturity as we have a lot more mental development than they can. 

Elves taking 120 years to reach full maturity means they will by virtue of a slower metablism and life span learn more than a human would ever be able to consider. 

Also this is why some insects seem so fast, as their relitive lifespans mean they see us as extremely slow moving creatures. 

Hmm, somebody is suspiciously positive about spiders, perhaps the OP is Drow?

Quote from ClassicCharismaCaster >>

Hmm, somebody is suspiciously positive about spiders, perhaps the OP is Drow?

 Never! I'm smarter than that.

I always thought elves just aged slowly.

You've got elves on the brain lately, huh?

Your response to Davyd's well-written post gives me somewhat less hope of this, but I'll presume you're asking the question in good faith rather than trolling, so here's a good faith answer.

What's important to remember about elves is that they're functionally an alien species, so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine their thought processes might prioritize different things than we do, including when it comes to skills and magical education. Where a human wizard might learn how to cast a new magic spell in a few weeks, the elf might be (to our worldview) more overtly focused on the aesthetic qualities of the spell, such as performing the various components in a very specific/artistic way, which ultimately ends up taking longer to learn for little practical differentiation. Or even Davyd's example of baking bread, the average elf might approach every act of baking closer to the way a human Michelin Star molecular gastronomist would, while the average human baker just wants a well-made loaf to either feed their family or sell. The end result might even be the same, a good loaf of bread - but one approach takes a lot longer to learn, especially if the goal is to execute in the same amount of time.

What's also important to remember is that we're approaching D&D worlds from the perspective of talented adventurers, who are ultimately a vanishing minority of the population. Yes, a brilliant human wizard like Gale Dekarios might be on par with or even superior to multiple smart elf wizards in a mere fraction of the time, but the average elf (especially High Elf) has exposure to and facility with magic that the average human can't hope to match. That matters from a background worldbuilding standpoint, but it doesn't matter when it comes to a D&D party, where nobody is average anyway.

Quote from heydanseegil >>

All the long lived species take years to become adults and it left me pondering about the intelligence of such species. Why does it take an elf 120 years so accomplish what a human will in 18? I don't know but all of a sudden I have this picture of 14 year old elves still trying to learn their ABCs.

 They reach physical or mental adulthood about when other species do. What you are referring to is a spiritual maturation, where they stop remembering or reliving their past lives during their reverie and enter a period of depression called 'the drawing of the veil'. They get over it, but it is a noticeable removal of their connection to their former lives. 

You gonna go after the Dwarves as well? They aren't even considered full adults in their 30s according to some of the novels. 
Both peoples likely learn at the same rate but have different societal expectations based on lifespan. 
What's with the elf hate?

Like Elven and Dwarven craftsmanship is still considered extraordinary by human standards.
Elves ain't perfect but they are far from Dumb. 

Quote from GnollitAll78450 >>

You gonna go after the Dwarves as well? They aren't even considered full adults in their 30s according to some of the novels. 
Both peoples likely learn at the same rate but have different societal expectations based on lifespan. 
What's with the elf hate?

Like Elven and Dwarven craftsmanship is still considered extraordinary by human standards.
Elves ain't perfect but they are far from Dumb. 

No, Dwarves actually have to engineer stuff. That takes college.

Quote from PsyrenXY >>

You've got elves on the brain lately, huh?

Your response to Davyd's well-written post gives me somewhat less hope of this, but I'll presume you're asking the question in good faith rather than trolling, so here's a good faith answer.

What's important to remember about elves is that they're functionally an alien species, so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine their thought processes might prioritize different things than we do, including when it comes to skills and magical education. Where a human wizard might learn how to cast a new magic spell in a few weeks, the elf might be (to our worldview) more overtly focused on the aesthetic qualities of the spell, such as performing the various components in a very specific/artistic way, which ultimately ends up taking longer to learn for little practical differentiation. Or even Davyd's example of baking bread, the average elf might approach every act of baking closer to the way a human Michelin Star molecular gastronomist would, while the average human baker just wants a well-made loaf to either feed their family or sell. The end result might even be the same, a good loaf of bread - but one approach takes a lot longer to learn, especially if the goal is to execute in the same amount of time.

What's also important to remember is that we're approaching D&D worlds from the perspective of talented adventurers, who are ultimately a vanishing minority of the population. Yes, a brilliant human wizard like Gale Dekarios might be on par with or even superior to multiple smart elf wizards in a mere fraction of the time, but the average elf (especially High Elf) has exposure to and facility with magic that the average human can't hope to match. That matters from a background worldbuilding standpoint, but it doesn't matter when it comes to a D&D party, where nobody is average anyway.

 That only makes sense if spending a lot of time doing something actually equals improvement. I have taught music and I have had a student who practiced all the time. It didn't matter. They still just sacked. I hate to say it because they were a very good student but it just never clicked for them. They had myself another tutor and their school music teacher all teaching them too. So it wasn't like there wasn't considerable effort. They were just like tone deaf to be honest. Later they shined at sculpture so they still were talented. Just not at music. Just spending a life doing something does not make someone good at it.

Quote from heydanseegil >>

No, Dwarves actually have to engineer stuff. That takes college.

I can assure you that "engineering stuff" existed long before colleges did.

Quote from heydanseegil >> 

 That only makes sense if spending a lot of time doing something actually equals improvement. 

No, it's the opposite. If you're a species that values form over function (i.e. aesthetics over sheer pragmatism) then you can in fact spend a lot of time on something without improving its functionality. And that is one plausible explanation for the disparity between an elf's time spent on learning X and a human's, without a provably false label like "stupidity."

What did an elf ever do to you? I'm genuinely confused as to why you hate elves so much.
And no, elves are not "dumb." They are an incredibly graceful and artistic species that just so happen to live for over half a millennium. As such, their culture places different values on different things. That is why an elf is not considered, culturally, to be an adult until around 100 years old. They mature at the approximate rate as humans. Also remember that their culture is far more complex, so learning the intricacies of their society takes far longer than a human in a human society. 
As for the "only level one after a hundred years, how does that make sense?" idiotic take I've seen on the internet: Elves have different priorities. They take their time because it's almost infinite for them. Would you rush through your education and get all stressed out during it if you knew those years would be a tiny fraction of your lifespan and you could afford to take your time and enjoy all of your years?

D&D is not a reality simulator.

• During an adventure, Elven PCs gain experience at exactly the same rate as any other PC. This rate is unnaturally fast.
• Outside of an adventure, they also gain experience at the same rate. This rate is zero -- there are no rules for gaining experience in downtime.

While there are ways to justify a 120 year old elf and an 18 year old human having the same amount of experience, doing so does require some effort. D&D has not bothered to do so, because D&D does not care about realism. Most fantasy settings with elves are equally indifferent to realism.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

D&D is not a reality simulator.

• During an adventure, Elven PCs gain experience at exactly the same rate as any other PC. This rate is unnaturally fast.
• Outside of an adventure, they also gain experience at the same rate. This rate is zero -- there are no rules for gaining experience in downtime.

While there are ways to justify a 120 year old elf and an 18 year old human having the same amount of experience, doing so does require some effort. D&D has not bothered to do so, because D&D does not care about realism. Most fantasy settings with elves are equally indifferent to realism.

Building on this and going back to my earlier point, we approach these worlds from the lens of an adventurer. It's quite possible that the average elf in the world is indeed 5 levels higher (or some other interval) than the average human due to their lifespans. It's also possible that the number of elves who start adventuring at level 1 is actually pretty rare even by adventurer standards. We just don't get demographics on this sort of thing since levels are a metagame construct.

I never thought of them as stupid.

Just lazy. Very lazy.

Farming is hard work. Elves don't have farms. They live off of the natural environment only. The forest is not a farm. They are hunter gatherers.

And no they are not naturally artistic any more than any other species is. Otherwise the world would be covered with their art in all forms.

No they are just lazy.

A.) I don't know why you felt the need to make two separate elf-bashing threads, but my advice about seeing people complexly and groups not being monoliths from that thread holds just as true here.

2.) Different people prioritize different things, and this leads to profoundly different outcomes. In our non-fantastical, non-D&D world, some people work in retail or on a farm or as a mechanic their entire lives, and some people end up on 30 Under 30 lists and become obscenely wealthy at a relatively young age. There are too many personal and societal variables to boil it down to anything simple and pithy, but the long and short of it is that people take a diverse set of paths through life, and comparing them against each other - especially to imply one path is stupid - is not seeing life or people complexly.

Now look at the width and breadth of D&D player characters. And add in all the varied possibilities for NPCs. Some players make characters who started adventuring early, while other players make characters who got into adventuring later in life as a second act reinvention or mid-life reevaluation of priorities. Among many other possibilities, some NPCs are fellow adventurers and some NPCs are middle-aged farmers who don't even rate as 1st level.

So an elf that gets into adventuring sometime after their 100th or 200th birthday isn't stupid. It's not like they didn't learn how to read a map or pack a bag until then. This is just when they decided to enter that phase of life. A phase of life that some elves - and humans and dwarves and goblins and goliaths and halfings, etc - never choose to enter. Not everyone chooses to be an adventurer (or gets forced to answer the call by way of Campbellian monomyth). And those that do aren't necessarily going to do it at the same age, stage of maturity, or season of life. And that's perfectly okay.

Quote from TheGnome5786>>

Otherwise the world would be covered with their art in all forms.

Uh, it is? Elven empires spanned worlds like Toril and Krynn, and their art is everywhere (which includes things like their magic items.) But you're also talking about monster-filled worlds that go through multiple cataclysms, and greedy dragons hoovering a lot of it up to sit on.

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Quote from heydanseegil >>

All the long lived species take years to become adults and it left me pondering about the intelligence of such species. Why does it take an elf 120 years so accomplish what a human will in 18? I don't know but all of a sudden I have this picture of 14 year old elves still trying to learn their ABCs.

 They reach physical or mental adulthood about when other species do. What you are referring to is a spiritual maturation, where they stop remembering or reliving their past lives during their reverie and enter a period of depression called 'the drawing of the veil'. They get over it, but it is a noticeable removal of their connection to their former lives. 

This. Let's consider this bit about elven adulthood from the 2014 PHB

Age. Although elves reach physical maturity at about the same age as humans, the elven understanding of adulthood goes beyond physical growth to encompass worldly experience.

The understanding of adulthood is different, as in it's a matter of how they use the term socially. Much like how you'll find plenty of 30-somethings who won't be impressed by some 19 year old college student saying they're an adult. "Have you worked full time? You living on your own? Had to cancel personal plans so you could pull an all-nighter fixing a problem at work?" When someone's been around the block for three centuries, you think 30 years sounds like a meaningful body of life experience? Ergo socially they have a different threshold based on proportionate age and- in the case of elves who experience past lives- that dovetails with when it appears than an individual's personal life experiences have fully offset their past life recollections.

I also covered the issue of "why aren't elves all level 20 powerhouses after a century or two" here.

Quote from TheGnome5786 >>

I never thought of them as stupid.

Just lazy. Very lazy.

Farming is hard work. Elves don't have farms. They live off of the natural environment only. The forest is not a farm. They are hunter gatherers.

And no they are not naturally artistic any more than any other species is. Otherwise the world would be covered with their art in all forms.

No they are just lazy.

 Anyone who thinks that subsistence hunter-gatherers are lazy has never actually tried foraging for food.  Also, the only D&D world that elves are portrayed as fully dependent on hunting and gathering for food is Dark Sun, which has a distinct lack of farming in general.

 I would avoid going trying to pretend that the way long lived races learn in fantasy is actually realistic or even plausible. Realistic learning behavior if elves mostly learn like humans other than a longer lifespan would be that a 120 year old would be significantly more skilled than a 20 year old human... but not 6x, and the 20 year old would improve much faster.

This is perfectly visible for humans. The difference between a 20 year old and a 25 year old is much larger than the difference between a 50 year old and a 55 year old, but much smaller than the difference between a 5 year old and a 10 year old.

However, that's not the way the genre works. In fantasy, for some reason, a hundred year old elf may be no more skilled than the twenty year old human... and then something happens, and they learn just as fast for the next few years (however long the campaign or story runs) as the human.

You can justify this; you just have to make elves work a lot differently from humans. For example, maybe elves don't just generally age slower -- rather, they have the ability to control their rate of aging, but this also affects their learning speed. Thus, an adventuring elf has just decided that, for the moment, they need to learn at human speed, but at a cost that they also age as fast as a human. Another option is that elves are much better at forgetting than humans, and the more memory they've accumulated, the slower they learn... so they'll forget things to give themselves more room to learn anew.