OP ability scores.

So I'm in a campaign where we all use the standard arrary or point buy in ability scores. Recently a new character joined that used the rolling system. The DM said that we usually use the standards, but the player was unwilling to change their ability scores.

This is because those scores are all incredibly high. I'm not saying that he cheated or anything (even tho we didn't see the rolls in the game log because he'd already made the character), but I think there's a 20, an 18, two 16s, and the lowest is 12 at level 7, while everyone else uses the standard ones. This feels unfair.

What would you do in this situation? Should something like this be allowed?

As an outsider, I can't tell what the dynamic is like and whether I am getting the whole story. Going off what's been stated however:

'The DM said that we usually use the standards, but the player was unwilling to change their ability scores'

And therein lies the main problem; the DM is the one that sets the rules, not the player. If one player is the exception, what does that say about ensuring fair play at the table?

It feels unfair....because it is. Best thing to do is have an open discussion stating that it's unfair that everyone else is playing by the rules except one player. It's just simple table etiquette. 

I would question why the DM would allow this to slide? It would be like allowing everyone access to a common item at the start of the game but giving the Paladin a Holy Avenger.

There is not a lot more to say beyond Lamoon01’s comments. The DM needs to swallow their conflict avoidance anxiety or whatever else it is that’s keeping them from bringing this player in line with the group or it seems problems will only continue to pile up to me.

Quote from PPSS2022 >>

 

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What would you do in this situation? Should something like this be allowed?

 Session 0 determins the way stats are generated, as a Forever DM with a group of players I've had since 2020, I use the dice method unseen because I trust my players, and I tend to run heroic level games, ie I give out good magic items and send monsters that should be too hard for them. As they like a mix of RP and good combat every session. 

This said, if the players at the table use the array or point buy allowing a rolled character becomes unbalanced. That person should set aside their heroic character for a game where heroic characters are the norm, and make a character witth either pointbuy or the array. 

Edit: Also as a long time player and DM, I dislike it when someone feels the need to bring a character from outside a game to the table. If you are new to the group and game, make a new character. Don't bring a character you've had for 5 years from a long dead game. 

Quote from gothicshark >>

Quote from PPSS2022 >>

 

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What would you do in this situation? Should something like this be allowed?

 Session 0 determins the way stats are generated, as a Forever DM with a group of players I've had since 2020, I use the dice method unseen because I trust my players, and I tend to run heroic level games, ie I give out good magic items and send monsters that should be too hard for them. As they like a mix of RP and good combat every session. 

This said, if the players at the table use the array or point buy allowing a rolled character becomes unbalanced. That person should set aside their heroic character for a game where heroic characters are the norm, and make a character witth either pointbuy or the array. 

Edit: Also as a long time player and DM, I dislike it when someone feels the need to bring a character from outside a game to the table. If you are new to the group and game, make a new character. Don't bring a character you've had for 5 years from a long dead game. 

 Yeah, I think that the DM is just generally easy-going, (which isn't a bad thing inherently). Also, the power gap gets worse as well, because the player in question also seems to be an optimizer (again, not inherently bad) but this creates a further unfairness, as the good abilities are all in the best possible scores.

I agree with @Lamoon01 completely.  Standard Array and Point Buy provides a specific range and distribution of ability scores.  With bonuses the highest score would normally be a 16.  So a player having a 20, an 18 and a couple of 16's isn't only unfair but it throws the balance off in regards to the rest of the party.

If the player is 'unwilling to change' his scores then perhaps he needs to find a new game with a different group that allows obvious cheating.  Even if your group is hurting for players.  

In regards to the DM, well, he/she is the DM which means enforcing both rules and table etiquette.  Trying to appease a problem player could come at the cost of regular established players.

I'm both a DM and a player depending on the group.  As a DM I would state clearly that this is the established method of character generation for ALL players.  As a player, I wouldn't play in a group where the DM allows situations such as this to fester. 

If the DM says use standard array, ALL players have to use standard array. If they won't budge, they'll probably cause problems elsewhere, and they probably find a new group.

I'll grant that it's dubious, petty, and unfair to the others to bring these stats to a standard array table, but honestly imo they don't truly make for a "broken" character in and of themselves. On the skill side of things, having +4-5 in a skill is about where a typical level 1 character with prof starts, and it won't grow any further unless it's also a prof, which largely rules out their dominating on skill checks. It can give them a bit more of an edge on consistently making saving throws, but by tier 2 powerful enemies' DCs are in the mid-teens and so a +4-5 alone is still only slightly better than even odds, meaning rolls can still have a lot of weight. As far as attacking goes, very few classes/subclasses care about more than one or two stats, so having extra in others doesn't really do anything on that front. Being able to get +3-4 in CON for HP on a squishy class is nice, but it's also the most passive instance and could easily not come up much in practice.

I'm not saying you're wrong to be against someone coming to the table and pulling this, but I do wonder what exactly is making the character OP, as ability mods alone don't really push the needle that far outside of initial class capabilities imo, particularly after tier 1.

The ability scores themselves aren't the real problem, it's that the GM let the new player run a character that did not use the same rules as everyone else.  That gives the player notice that they can push to get the GM to let them get away with stuff.  But as a player, there's not much you can do beyond politely expressing your concerns to the GM.

I agree with everything said so far EXCEPT about bringing in characters from other campaigns AS LONG AS EVERYONE IS COOL WITH IT. Maybe this isn’t what the commenter meant, but I have a bunch of characters prebuilt for a campaign with items purchased ahead of time that go against the starting currency. That said, only the ones based around a build from one specific campaign I am currently in have rolled stats.

The closest thing to an exception for this rule was a character that took part in a series of oneshot stories that got more items and currency as they went on, but everyone did this. I should also note everyone else had rolled the stats for their characters whereas I didn’t even know what that entailed at the time and just went point buy. I don’t think the DM knew, but he was managing a lot of random players that kept coming and going and doubt he cared too much.

Quote from Maruntoryx >>

If the DM says use standard array, ALL players have to use standard array. If they won't budge, they'll probably cause problems elsewhere, and they probably find a new group.

This, completely. Tell your DM that he has the right to enforce the character creation rules, and if someone is unwilling to budge, they're likely not a team player anyway, so it's best to kicked them from the group now before they cause problems later. Try and talk to other players and get them to publicly back the DM on this as well; if it's a group decision, the DM will feel more at ease standing firm.