Do you guys sometimes get annoyed when a certain race you want to play doesn't have darkvision? Darkvision is so easy to get during character creation, and most other players would have it. This makes you sometimes feel obliged to play a race that grants darkvision. I heard about a lot of players having issues where all players in the party have darkvision except one. That one human or goliath would make the party stand out, due to the nessacity of a light source. The light prevents the party's rogue from hiding easily. Overall, it hinders the rest of the party. How do you usually handle these situations? Not having darkvision can ruin a player's fun, especially since most spellcasters rely on sight. They won't be able to function properly in combat. The big problem is the player might have to build the character in a specific way to counteract the darkvision, and not play the character they want to play. Even if they play a Gloom Stalker Ranger, the human won't get the full benefits of that subclass (90 or 150 feet instead of 60). It just seems like darkvision is too nessasary to have when going adventuring, which severely narrows all the options the players have when building characters. I don't know what's the best way to handle a situation where nearly all the characters have darkvision except one or two. Do you just give them free Goggles of Night? Do you simply allow them to get innate darkvision to simplify things? This type of scenario makes the rest of the party feel that the human isn't really bringing much to the group, the extra player becomes more of a burden than a boon.
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Brains over brawn? Mind over matter? These canny warriors rightly answer, "Why not both?" - Tasha
Darkness is not "I can't see", at least not necessarily. Usually there's at least enough light in darkness for characters without Darkvision to move about without walking into walls or whatever. It's mostly when combat is engaged that it becomes really important that everyone can see, and unless one or more PCs rely on darkness to get an advantage it's perfectly ok to light a torch or fire off a Light spell at that point. Darkvision isn't necessary at all, not for everyone anyway. It's pretty good to have a few characters with it, particularly ones that do scouting and the like, but PCs without are not a burden or liability.
With only darkvision you will miss any detail that relies on colour - all flowing liquids will look the same (whether a stream of water or a stream of acid).
If you are adventuring in the complete dark, then anything you encounter will also have darkvision, so negating some of your "lets keep to the dark" stealth.
Do you guys sometimes get annoyed when a certain race you want to play doesn't have darkvision? Darkvision is so easy to get during character creation, and most other players would have it. This makes you sometimes feel obliged to play a race that grants darkvision. I heard about a lot of players having issues where all players in the party have darkvision except one. That one human or goliath would make the party stand out, due to the nessacity of a light source. The light prevents the party's rogue from hiding easily. Overall, it hinders the rest of the party. How do you usually handle these situations? Not having darkvision can ruin a player's fun, especially since most spellcasters rely on sight. They won't be able to function properly in combat. The big problem is the player might have to build the character in a specific way to counteract the darkvision, and not play the character they want to play. Even if they play a Gloom Stalker Ranger, the human won't get the full benefits of that subclass (90 or 150 feet instead of 60). It just seems like darkvision is too nessasary to have when going adventuring, which severely narrows all the options the players have when building characters. I don't know what's the best way to handle a situation where nearly all the characters have darkvision except one or two. Do you just give them free Goggles of Night? Do you simply allow them to get innate darkvision to simplify things? This type of scenario makes the rest of the party feel that the human isn't really bringing much to the group, the extra player becomes more of a burden than a boon.
So to answer a lot of your questions, if you actually play RAW and stick to it pretty hard for what Darkvision ACTUALLY is? Humans aren't really that far behind because the reality is you WANT light. If I'm running RAW darkvision and imposing those on both sides, then the players get to choose what they want to do. I'm not going to hand waive rules because two players out of five don't have it, and I'm not going to give them extra things because now I've set that table that if X gets extra stuff, why doesn't Y?
If you are going to play true darkvision and everyone is in the dark? Anyone without darkvision is blind, and those with darkvision are at disadvantage because of the dim light it grants which means all passive checks are at a -5. Even if you're level 5 with expertise in perception and a 18 wisdom? Enjoy that passive 15 instead of 20. Sure, enemies in caves are at the same detriment? Who cares though, because the traps are already set. They'll know to avoid X because they live here. If you want to disarm the trap, unless its like a lock or something inside a mechanism that doesn't require sight? You're at disadvantage. Hard to cut the right wires or discern details without that torch light.
I do agree with your general statement that the Human race in 5e is just woefully underbuilt, and for a race that when you think of all the most well known fantasy heroes? They're human. The vast majority of the realms in most games? Human. Leadership in most towns? Still human. It's why I use the Custom Lineage rules in my games for all humans, with many more expanded options other than "Darkvision or a Skill" because at that point the only right choice is darkvision.
Darkness is not "I can't see", at least not necessarily. Usually there's at least enough light in darkness for characters without Darkvision to move about without walking into walls or whatever. It's mostly when combat is engaged that it becomes really important that everyone can see, and unless one or more PCs rely on darkness to get an advantage it's perfectly ok to light a torch or fire off a Light spell at that point. Darkvision isn't necessary at all, not for everyone anyway. It's pretty good to have a few characters with it, particularly ones that do scouting and the like, but PCs without are not a burden or liability.
Exactly! In combat, not having darkvision in darkness is a serious hindrance. It means you are blinded according to RAW. Plus, you won't be able to carry a light source around while in combat, as you need your hands for other things (arcane foci, spell components, weapons, shields, etc). It also means you would HAVE to spend a cantrip slot on light. Well, light is a great spell to have either way, because some monsters have Light Sensitivity. The main issue is you would be making it harder for the rogue to hide when you have to always have a light source active.
With only darkvision you will miss any detail that relies on colour - all flowing liquids will look the same (whether a stream of water or a stream of acid).
If you are adventuring in the complete dark, then anything you encounter will also have darkvision, so negating some of your "lets keep to the dark" stealth.
I understand that, but carrying a light source in a normally dark area would make you stick out like fireworks. You won't be able to see color, but each type of color in total darkness would have a different shade of gray. You should be able to tell the difference between lava, water, and acid, especially since each type of liquid would have a different texture appearance.
Do you guys sometimes get annoyed when a certain race you want to play doesn't have darkvision? Darkvision is so easy to get during character creation, and most other players would have it. This makes you sometimes feel obliged to play a race that grants darkvision. I heard about a lot of players having issues where all players in the party have darkvision except one. That one human or goliath would make the party stand out, due to the nessacity of a light source. The light prevents the party's rogue from hiding easily. Overall, it hinders the rest of the party. How do you usually handle these situations? Not having darkvision can ruin a player's fun, especially since most spellcasters rely on sight. They won't be able to function properly in combat. The big problem is the player might have to build the character in a specific way to counteract the darkvision, and not play the character they want to play. Even if they play a Gloom Stalker Ranger, the human won't get the full benefits of that subclass (90 or 150 feet instead of 60). It just seems like darkvision is too nessasary to have when going adventuring, which severely narrows all the options the players have when building characters. I don't know what's the best way to handle a situation where nearly all the characters have darkvision except one or two. Do you just give them free Goggles of Night? Do you simply allow them to get innate darkvision to simplify things? This type of scenario makes the rest of the party feel that the human isn't really bringing much to the group, the extra player becomes more of a burden than a boon.
So to answer a lot of your questions, if you actually play RAW and stick to it pretty hard for what Darkvision ACTUALLY is? Humans aren't really that far behind because the reality is you WANT light. If I'm running RAW darkvision and imposing those on both sides, then the players get to choose what they want to do. I'm not going to hand waive rules because two players out of five don't have it, and I'm not going to give them extra things because now I've set that table that if X gets extra stuff, why doesn't Y?
If you are going to play true darkvision and everyone is in the dark? Anyone without darkvision is blind, and those with darkvision are at disadvantage because of the dim light it grants which means all passive checks are at a -5. Even if you're level 5 with expertise in perception and a 18 wisdom? Enjoy that passive 15 instead of 20. Sure, enemies in caves are at the same detriment? Who cares though, because the traps are already set. They'll know to avoid X because they live here. If you want to disarm the trap, unless its like a lock or something inside a mechanism that doesn't require sight? You're at disadvantage. Hard to cut the right wires or discern details without that torch light.
I do agree with your general statement that the Human race in 5e is just woefully underbuilt, and for a race that when you think of all the most well known fantasy heroes? They're human. The vast majority of the realms in most games? Human. Leadership in most towns? Still human. It's why I use the Custom Lineage rules in my games for all humans, with many more expanded options other than "Darkvision or a Skill" because at that point the only right choice is darkvision.
I know characters with darkvision still have to deal with the hindrance of having difficulty seeing, but at least you aren't fully blinded. In combat, the minor penalty that creatures with darkvision recieve isn't as debilitating as being unable to target many enemies with spells or hit most attacks.
The Standard Human is just too bland and vanilla. They don't have any cool traits that make them feel heroic and fantastical.
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Darkness is not "I can't see", at least not necessarily. Usually there's at least enough light in darkness for characters without Darkvision to move about without walking into walls or whatever. It's mostly when combat is engaged that it becomes really important that everyone can see, and unless one or more PCs rely on darkness to get an advantage it's perfectly ok to light a torch or fire off a Light spell at that point. Darkvision isn't necessary at all, not for everyone anyway. It's pretty good to have a few characters with it, particularly ones that do scouting and the like, but PCs without are not a burden or liability.
Exactly! In combat, not having darkvision in darkness is a serious hindrance. It means you are blinded according to RAW. Plus, you won't be able to carry a light source around while in combat, as you need your hands for other things (arcane foci, spell components, weapons, shields, etc). It also means you would HAVE to spend a cantrip slot on light. Well, light is a great spell to have either way, because some monsters have Light Sensitivity. The main issue is you would be making it harder for the rogue to hide when you have to always have a light source active.
Assuming optional rules, a rogue can sit there and just bonus action Aim to get constant always on sneak attack via range attacks. Or they can just stand next to an enemy that has a threatening target/ally near them.
Not every combat is going to be in a dark cave.
In short, I just don't agree that it's as debilitating as you do because both the PCs and the enemies are going to utilize light sources at my tables. Darkvision has its purposes but to be adventuring in perfect total darkness all the time is just silly.
I think saying a lack of darkvision 'ruins' fun is a bit on the dramatic side, though I'll grant it might be true for some people or at some tables.
The only time I've ever found a lack of darkvision to be debilitating was in one particular encounter in Rime of the Frostmaiden. My halfling fighter and the human bard were completely blind and running for our lives from a monster way above our weight class. Our DM is pretty strict with RAW, so we were running at half speed due to difficult terrain and making Dex saves at disadvantage because we couldn't see where it was safe to dodge. And the only reason we didn't summon light is that the monster we were running from...also was blind in the dark. Aside from this extremely fringe scenario, I've never encountered a situation where a torch or a light spell wasn't helpful to the entire party, or where a lack of darkvision was more than just an inconvenience.
In my experience, situations where darkvision is actually useful are relatively rare. Most of the time adventurers will be staying in one place at night and most underground delving is into areas where intelligent creatures live. Anywhere intelligent creatures live should have dim lighting at least, even if those creatures have darkvision, as otherwise they're liable to trip on something. If the party is trying to be stealthy, darkvision is handy, but I've rarely seen a full party that was reasonably stealthy to begin with.
That said, I like being sneaky, so being able to choose custom lineage with any race I like to get darkvision makes me happy.
Do you guys sometimes get annoyed when a certain race you want to play doesn't have darkvision? Darkvision is so easy to get during character creation, and most other players would have it. This makes you sometimes feel obliged to play a race that grants darkvision. I heard about a lot of players having issues where all players in the party have darkvision except one. That one human or goliath would make the party stand out, due to the nessacity of a light source. The light prevents the party's rogue from hiding easily. Overall, it hinders the rest of the party. How do you usually handle these situations? Not having darkvision can ruin a player's fun, especially since most spellcasters rely on sight. They won't be able to function properly in combat. The big problem is the player might have to build the character in a specific way to counteract the darkvision, and not play the character they want to play. Even if they play a Gloom Stalker Ranger, the human won't get the full benefits of that subclass (90 or 150 feet instead of 60). It just seems like darkvision is too nessasary to have when going adventuring, which severely narrows all the options the players have when building characters. I don't know what's the best way to handle a situation where nearly all the characters have darkvision except one or two. Do you just give them free Goggles of Night? Do you simply allow them to get innate darkvision to simplify things? This type of scenario makes the rest of the party feel that the human isn't really bringing much to the group, the extra player becomes more of a burden than a boon.
So to answer a lot of your questions, if you actually play RAW and stick to it pretty hard for what Darkvision ACTUALLY is? Humans aren't really that far behind because the reality is you WANT light. If I'm running RAW darkvision and imposing those on both sides, then the players get to choose what they want to do. I'm not going to hand waive rules because two players out of five don't have it, and I'm not going to give them extra things because now I've set that table that if X gets extra stuff, why doesn't Y?
If you are going to play true darkvision and everyone is in the dark? Anyone without darkvision is blind, and those with darkvision are at disadvantage because of the dim light it grants which means all passive checks are at a -5. Even if you're level 5 with expertise in perception and a 18 wisdom? Enjoy that passive 15 instead of 20. Sure, enemies in caves are at the same detriment? Who cares though, because the traps are already set. They'll know to avoid X because they live here. If you want to disarm the trap, unless its like a lock or something inside a mechanism that doesn't require sight? You're at disadvantage. Hard to cut the right wires or discern details without that torch light.
Think your being a little overly dismissive of how good dark vision in in a number of instances. Trying to get from point A to B and it's dark out and monsters around? Yeah your both at disadvantage in the dark but does the party really WANT to find the monsters? Or simply get around them. Lighting up a torch to help the the non dark vision is scary often, monsters n players being both at disadvantage is more likely they miss each other, lighting up a torch or lantern is like turning on the all you can eat buffet sign in the dead of night.
Also dark vision fighting in the dark is fine, but those without it are blind and that's a whooole lvl of crap
Darkness is not "I can't see", at least not necessarily. Usually there's at least enough light in darkness for characters without Darkvision to move about without walking into walls or whatever. It's mostly when combat is engaged that it becomes really important that everyone can see, and unless one or more PCs rely on darkness to get an advantage it's perfectly ok to light a torch or fire off a Light spell at that point. Darkvision isn't necessary at all, not for everyone anyway. It's pretty good to have a few characters with it, particularly ones that do scouting and the like, but PCs without are not a burden or liability.
Exactly! In combat, not having darkvision in darkness is a serious hindrance. It means you are blinded according to RAW. Plus, you won't be able to carry a light source around while in combat, as you need your hands for other things (arcane foci, spell components, weapons, shields, etc). It also means you would HAVE to spend a cantrip slot on light. Well, light is a great spell to have either way, because some monsters have Light Sensitivity. The main issue is you would be making it harder for the rogue to hide when you have to always have a light source active.
Do you guys sometimes get annoyed when a certain race you want to play doesn't have darkvision? Darkvision is so easy to get during character creation, and most other players would have it. This makes you sometimes feel obliged to play a race that grants darkvision. I heard about a lot of players having issues where all players in the party have darkvision except one. That one human or goliath would make the party stand out, due to the nessacity of a light source. The light prevents the party's rogue from hiding easily. Overall, it hinders the rest of the party. How do you usually handle these situations? Not having darkvision can ruin a player's fun, especially since most spellcasters rely on sight. They won't be able to function properly in combat. The big problem is the player might have to build the character in a specific way to counteract the darkvision, and not play the character they want to play. Even if they play a Gloom Stalker Ranger, the human won't get the full benefits of that subclass (90 or 150 feet instead of 60). It just seems like darkvision is too nessasary to have when going adventuring, which severely narrows all the options the players have when building characters. I don't know what's the best way to handle a situation where nearly all the characters have darkvision except one or two. Do you just give them free Goggles of Night? Do you simply allow them to get innate darkvision to simplify things? This type of scenario makes the rest of the party feel that the human isn't really bringing much to the group, the extra player becomes more of a burden than a boon.
So to answer a lot of your questions, if you actually play RAW and stick to it pretty hard for what Darkvision ACTUALLY is? Humans aren't really that far behind because the reality is you WANT light. If I'm running RAW darkvision and imposing those on both sides, then the players get to choose what they want to do. I'm not going to hand waive rules because two players out of five don't have it, and I'm not going to give them extra things because now I've set that table that if X gets extra stuff, why doesn't Y?
If you are going to play true darkvision and everyone is in the dark? Anyone without darkvision is blind, and those with darkvision are at disadvantage because of the dim light it grants which means all passive checks are at a -5. Even if you're level 5 with expertise in perception and a 18 wisdom? Enjoy that passive 15 instead of 20. Sure, enemies in caves are at the same detriment? Who cares though, because the traps are already set. They'll know to avoid X because they live here. If you want to disarm the trap, unless its like a lock or something inside a mechanism that doesn't require sight? You're at disadvantage. Hard to cut the right wires or discern details without that torch light.
Think your being a little overly dismissive of how good dark vision in in a number of instances. Trying to get from point A to B and it's dark out and monsters around? Yeah your both at disadvantage in the dark but does the party really WANT to find the monsters? Or simply get around them. Lighting up a torch to help the the non dark vision is scary often, monsters n players being both at disadvantage is more likely they miss each other, lighting up a torch or lantern is like turning on the all you can eat buffet sign in the dead of night.
Also dark vision fighting in the dark is fine, but those without it are blind and that's a whooole lvl of crap
If there are monsters about in darkness, it's a pretty good bet they have darkvision or will have a light source. Things that go bump in the night doesn't mean things bumping into trees in that night, after all.
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I've never had a party that was distressed because one or more of them did or did not have darkvision.
It is up to the GM to make sure enough situations come up where it is useful and times when it doesn't matter. It is also the party's responsibility to not be jerks if somebody can't see in the dark.
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Given how common darkness is, it is an issue. Virtually any night time between dawn and dusk is darkness - even full moons are generally darkness (the "most brilliant" confer dim). If you don't have darkvision, anything other than daylight or within a short distance of a source of light means you have to treat yourself as blinded. That's 40 ft of a torch, which presumably you have to hold. That means, if you're in a dungeon, long range spells are out, archery is problematic and only really possible if someone else is holding a torch for you etc. Disadvantage on perception checks for anything more than 20ft away. If you use a spell, that's part of your first turn's action economy if you haven't already got it active. If it was already active, you'll never get surprise and will likely be surprised because the monsters will likely see you before even your darkvision party members will see them. Even at dusk or dawn, you're at disadvantage in perception checks without DV.
If your campaign rarely goes underground and your party is mostly a day time one, then DV isn't a major issue. Perhaps I'm the fringe case, but most of my sessions have been either underground, in a cave, at night or otherwise in low light conditions. Rime of the Frostmaiden is dim light even at noon - as DM p, I have to decide whether to punish the party because their Druid, the Wisdom based character, wanted to play a human. They don't have DV, but is the only one with a decent Wisdom score (they have 16 I think, the other two have 10 and 8, and only the 8 has DV). Effectively, the party has -1 to perception.
Darkness is very common in my experience, and the consequences (25% of all rolls are misses when they would otherwise have been successes, close to half of all would-be successes now fail, not to mention the secondary effects on your stealthy colleagues) are pretty harsh. Combine that with the fact that something like half of all races have DV and it does feel more like a punishnment to not have it than a reward having it. At least, RAW. If you want to modify the game so it's not such an issue, that's fine...but I think RAW when combined with RAI should would work fine as is. Modifications shoukd be to personalise things to taste, not to fix problems.
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Given how common darkness is, it is an issue. Virtually any night time between dawn and dusk is darkness - even full moons are generally darkness (the "most brilliant" confer dim). If you don't have darkvision, anything other than daylight or within a short distance of a source of light means you have to treat yourself as blinded. That's 40 ft of a torch, which presumably you have to hold. That means, if you're in a dungeon, long range spells are out, archery is problematic and only really possible if someone else is holding a torch for you etc. Disadvantage on perception checks for anything more than 20ft away. If you use a spell, that's part of your first turn's action economy if you haven't already got it active. If it was already active, you'll never get surprise and will likely be surprised because the monsters will likely see you before even your darkvision party members will see them. Even at dusk or dawn, you're at disadvantage in perception checks without DV.
It's disadvantage on Perception period with Darkvision, which only stretches 20 ft further. And for characters with poor Perception, that disadvantage isn't a big deal - they're expected not to notice anything making an effort not to be seen. Getting surprise will also depend on stealth, so now we're talking about an entire party needing proficiency in that (and a good Dex mod, preferably, and no armour that may cause disadvantage) on top of Darkvision.
More sensibly (IMO anyway) you just split the party a little bit. Have the sneaky perceptive one(s) take a small lead, and don't worry about the whole party being elite ninja scouts.
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Given how common darkness is, it is an issue. Virtually any night time between dawn and dusk is darkness - even full moons are generally darkness (the "most brilliant" confer dim). If you don't have darkvision, anything other than daylight or within a short distance of a source of light means you have to treat yourself as blinded. That's 40 ft of a torch, which presumably you have to hold. That means, if you're in a dungeon, long range spells are out, archery is problematic and only really possible if someone else is holding a torch for you etc. Disadvantage on perception checks for anything more than 20ft away. If you use a spell, that's part of your first turn's action economy if you haven't already got it active. If it was already active, you'll never get surprise and will likely be surprised because the monsters will likely see you before even your darkvision party members will see them. Even at dusk or dawn, you're at disadvantage in perception checks without DV.
It's disadvantage on Perception period with Darkvision, which only stretches 20 ft further. And for characters with poor Perception, that disadvantage isn't a big deal - they're expected not to notice anything making an effort not to be seen. Getting surprise will also depend on stealth, so now we're talking about an entire party needing proficiency in that (and a good Dex mod, preferably, and no armour that may cause disadvantage) on top of Darkvision.
More sensibly (IMO anyway) you just split the party a little bit. Have the sneaky perceptive one(s) take a small lead, and don't worry about the whole party being elite ninja scouts.
Disadvantage in dim light, so in darkness, which is perceived as dim light. DV let's you see in dim light as if it were bright light. So with a torch, you get to see as bright light out to 40ft, the disadvantage on perception between 40ft and your DV range, then blinded. Without DV, it's normal vision to 20ft, disadvantage on perception checks between 20ft and 40ft, then blinded after 40ft. That's a pretty big difference, you're more than doubling the area that you can see. For an archer or caster, that's effectively means then difference between someone not being able to be seen until they can probably use their movement and get in melee range and being able to see them and keep them at a healthy distance while hitting them with ranged. And of course, you don't have to hold a torch, meaning that you can use archery or have annextranhand free for something else, as well as not giving your party away or using up your action economy.
If I remember rightly it's suggested that you use group checks for stealth, not individual ones (for parties that are sticking close together). Only half the party has to be sneaky enough to pass the check. You could split up the party and have stealthy ones go ahead to try and preserve the surprise balance, but that also means that your sneaky ones, who are probably less armoured, are also in that combat alone until the party catches up, the number ofnyour party taking advantage of the surprise aspect is lower, and it also precludes you from being a sneaky one. It also doesn't answer the problem that you have to hold your torch, causing issues with anything that would need that hand to do, like shoot a bow or wield a two hander, or to do two handed weapon fighting, or to hold a shield, or...you get the point.
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Personally, my issue with darkvision is that WotC gave it out too freely so that it feels more like you're penalized for taking a race that doesn't have it rather than getting a bonus for taking a race that does.
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A hooded lantern is a wonderful item for the party (member) that wants to switch between a bright radius of light and a 10-ft radius of dim light (and vice versa) with a single action. And it can be worn on a backpack or belt. Beats a torch big time, and can be hooded and hidden around a corner to avoid alerting enemies to your presence.
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If there are monsters about in darkness, it's a pretty good bet they have darkvision or will have a light source. Things that go bump in the night doesn't mean things bumping into trees in that night, after all.
yeah that's my point, if your party has darkvision and so do the monster than its likely with disadvantage on percep checks your two groups will pass each other. If the monsters have a light source than you are likely to spot them easily because.. bright lights in the night, but the party having darkvision will not be immediately spotted because they aren't broadcasting their existence so they can creep in on the monsters or avoid them
Vice versa if the party lacks it and needs torches to get around than monsters have a much easier time ambushing them if they have darkvision as the beacon of fire gives away the party but the monsters are just free of that restriction
Not having to walk around with torches and lanterns is a really big benefit, than you can add in other stuff like.. not having to tie up a hand holding a torch or carrying a lantern
yeah that's my point, if your party has darkvision and so do the monster than its likely with disadvantage on percep checks your two groups will pass each other.
It's only disadvantage on Perception checks that rely on sight though, which brings me back to now everyone needing to have a good Stealth bonus as well to reliably escape notice in the dark. That's why I think it's better not to worry too much about Darkvision for absolutely everyone. Let the characters who do well in the dark do their thing, and let the others follow just far enough to not spoil the surpise but still be close enough to come help out quickly. Or, if it works out that way, let the non-stealthy ones draw attention and ambush with the others.
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Do you guys sometimes get annoyed when a certain race you want to play doesn't have darkvision? Darkvision is so easy to get during character creation, and most other players would have it. This makes you sometimes feel obliged to play a race that grants darkvision. I heard about a lot of players having issues where all players in the party have darkvision except one. That one human or goliath would make the party stand out, due to the nessacity of a light source. The light prevents the party's rogue from hiding easily. Overall, it hinders the rest of the party. How do you usually handle these situations? Not having darkvision can ruin a player's fun, especially since most spellcasters rely on sight. They won't be able to function properly in combat. The big problem is the player might have to build the character in a specific way to counteract the darkvision, and not play the character they want to play. Even if they play a Gloom Stalker Ranger, the human won't get the full benefits of that subclass (90 or 150 feet instead of 60). It just seems like darkvision is too nessasary to have when going adventuring, which severely narrows all the options the players have when building characters. I don't know what's the best way to handle a situation where nearly all the characters have darkvision except one or two. Do you just give them free Goggles of Night? Do you simply allow them to get innate darkvision to simplify things? This type of scenario makes the rest of the party feel that the human isn't really bringing much to the group, the extra player becomes more of a burden than a boon.
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My Homebrews: Monsters, Magic Items, Spells, Races
Rhulg- Hobgoblin Gunsmith
Darkness is not "I can't see", at least not necessarily. Usually there's at least enough light in darkness for characters without Darkvision to move about without walking into walls or whatever. It's mostly when combat is engaged that it becomes really important that everyone can see, and unless one or more PCs rely on darkness to get an advantage it's perfectly ok to light a torch or fire off a Light spell at that point. Darkvision isn't necessary at all, not for everyone anyway. It's pretty good to have a few characters with it, particularly ones that do scouting and the like, but PCs without are not a burden or liability.
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With only darkvision you will miss any detail that relies on colour - all flowing liquids will look the same (whether a stream of water or a stream of acid).
If you are adventuring in the complete dark, then anything you encounter will also have darkvision, so negating some of your "lets keep to the dark" stealth.
So to answer a lot of your questions, if you actually play RAW and stick to it pretty hard for what Darkvision ACTUALLY is? Humans aren't really that far behind because the reality is you WANT light. If I'm running RAW darkvision and imposing those on both sides, then the players get to choose what they want to do. I'm not going to hand waive rules because two players out of five don't have it, and I'm not going to give them extra things because now I've set that table that if X gets extra stuff, why doesn't Y?
If you are going to play true darkvision and everyone is in the dark? Anyone without darkvision is blind, and those with darkvision are at disadvantage because of the dim light it grants which means all passive checks are at a -5. Even if you're level 5 with expertise in perception and a 18 wisdom? Enjoy that passive 15 instead of 20. Sure, enemies in caves are at the same detriment? Who cares though, because the traps are already set. They'll know to avoid X because they live here. If you want to disarm the trap, unless its like a lock or something inside a mechanism that doesn't require sight? You're at disadvantage. Hard to cut the right wires or discern details without that torch light.
I do agree with your general statement that the Human race in 5e is just woefully underbuilt, and for a race that when you think of all the most well known fantasy heroes? They're human. The vast majority of the realms in most games? Human. Leadership in most towns? Still human. It's why I use the Custom Lineage rules in my games for all humans, with many more expanded options other than "Darkvision or a Skill" because at that point the only right choice is darkvision.
Exactly! In combat, not having darkvision in darkness is a serious hindrance. It means you are blinded according to RAW. Plus, you won't be able to carry a light source around while in combat, as you need your hands for other things (arcane foci, spell components, weapons, shields, etc). It also means you would HAVE to spend a cantrip slot on light. Well, light is a great spell to have either way, because some monsters have Light Sensitivity. The main issue is you would be making it harder for the rogue to hide when you have to always have a light source active.
Brains over brawn? Mind over matter? These canny warriors rightly answer, "Why not both?" - Tasha
My Homebrews: Monsters, Magic Items, Spells, Races
Rhulg- Hobgoblin Gunsmith
I understand that, but carrying a light source in a normally dark area would make you stick out like fireworks. You won't be able to see color, but each type of color in total darkness would have a different shade of gray. You should be able to tell the difference between lava, water, and acid, especially since each type of liquid would have a different texture appearance.
Brains over brawn? Mind over matter? These canny warriors rightly answer, "Why not both?" - Tasha
My Homebrews: Monsters, Magic Items, Spells, Races
Rhulg- Hobgoblin Gunsmith
I know characters with darkvision still have to deal with the hindrance of having difficulty seeing, but at least you aren't fully blinded. In combat, the minor penalty that creatures with darkvision recieve isn't as debilitating as being unable to target many enemies with spells or hit most attacks.
The Standard Human is just too bland and vanilla. They don't have any cool traits that make them feel heroic and fantastical.
Brains over brawn? Mind over matter? These canny warriors rightly answer, "Why not both?" - Tasha
My Homebrews: Monsters, Magic Items, Spells, Races
Rhulg- Hobgoblin Gunsmith
Assuming optional rules, a rogue can sit there and just bonus action Aim to get constant always on sneak attack via range attacks. Or they can just stand next to an enemy that has a threatening target/ally near them.
Not every combat is going to be in a dark cave.
In short, I just don't agree that it's as debilitating as you do because both the PCs and the enemies are going to utilize light sources at my tables. Darkvision has its purposes but to be adventuring in perfect total darkness all the time is just silly.
I think saying a lack of darkvision 'ruins' fun is a bit on the dramatic side, though I'll grant it might be true for some people or at some tables.
The only time I've ever found a lack of darkvision to be debilitating was in one particular encounter in Rime of the Frostmaiden. My halfling fighter and the human bard were completely blind and running for our lives from a monster way above our weight class. Our DM is pretty strict with RAW, so we were running at half speed due to difficult terrain and making Dex saves at disadvantage because we couldn't see where it was safe to dodge. And the only reason we didn't summon light is that the monster we were running from...also was blind in the dark. Aside from this extremely fringe scenario, I've never encountered a situation where a torch or a light spell wasn't helpful to the entire party, or where a lack of darkvision was more than just an inconvenience.
In my experience, situations where darkvision is actually useful are relatively rare. Most of the time adventurers will be staying in one place at night and most underground delving is into areas where intelligent creatures live. Anywhere intelligent creatures live should have dim lighting at least, even if those creatures have darkvision, as otherwise they're liable to trip on something. If the party is trying to be stealthy, darkvision is handy, but I've rarely seen a full party that was reasonably stealthy to begin with.
That said, I like being sneaky, so being able to choose custom lineage with any race I like to get darkvision makes me happy.
Think your being a little overly dismissive of how good dark vision in in a number of instances. Trying to get from point A to B and it's dark out and monsters around? Yeah your both at disadvantage in the dark but does the party really WANT to find the monsters? Or simply get around them. Lighting up a torch to help the the non dark vision is scary often, monsters n players being both at disadvantage is more likely they miss each other, lighting up a torch or lantern is like turning on the all you can eat buffet sign in the dead of night.
Also dark vision fighting in the dark is fine, but those without it are blind and that's a whooole lvl of crap
If there are monsters about in darkness, it's a pretty good bet they have darkvision or will have a light source. Things that go bump in the night doesn't mean things bumping into trees in that night, after all.
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I've never had a party that was distressed because one or more of them did or did not have darkvision.
It is up to the GM to make sure enough situations come up where it is useful and times when it doesn't matter. It is also the party's responsibility to not be jerks if somebody can't see in the dark.
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Given how common darkness is, it is an issue. Virtually any night time between dawn and dusk is darkness - even full moons are generally darkness (the "most brilliant" confer dim). If you don't have darkvision, anything other than daylight or within a short distance of a source of light means you have to treat yourself as blinded. That's 40 ft of a torch, which presumably you have to hold. That means, if you're in a dungeon, long range spells are out, archery is problematic and only really possible if someone else is holding a torch for you etc. Disadvantage on perception checks for anything more than 20ft away. If you use a spell, that's part of your first turn's action economy if you haven't already got it active. If it was already active, you'll never get surprise and will likely be surprised because the monsters will likely see you before even your darkvision party members will see them. Even at dusk or dawn, you're at disadvantage in perception checks without DV.
If your campaign rarely goes underground and your party is mostly a day time one, then DV isn't a major issue. Perhaps I'm the fringe case, but most of my sessions have been either underground, in a cave, at night or otherwise in low light conditions. Rime of the Frostmaiden is dim light even at noon - as DM p, I have to decide whether to punish the party because their Druid, the Wisdom based character, wanted to play a human. They don't have DV, but is the only one with a decent Wisdom score (they have 16 I think, the other two have 10 and 8, and only the 8 has DV). Effectively, the party has -1 to perception.
Darkness is very common in my experience, and the consequences (25% of all rolls are misses when they would otherwise have been successes, close to half of all would-be successes now fail, not to mention the secondary effects on your stealthy colleagues) are pretty harsh. Combine that with the fact that something like half of all races have DV and it does feel more like a punishnment to not have it than a reward having it. At least, RAW. If you want to modify the game so it's not such an issue, that's fine...but I think RAW when combined with RAI should would work fine as is. Modifications shoukd be to personalise things to taste, not to fix problems.
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It's disadvantage on Perception period with Darkvision, which only stretches 20 ft further. And for characters with poor Perception, that disadvantage isn't a big deal - they're expected not to notice anything making an effort not to be seen. Getting surprise will also depend on stealth, so now we're talking about an entire party needing proficiency in that (and a good Dex mod, preferably, and no armour that may cause disadvantage) on top of Darkvision.
More sensibly (IMO anyway) you just split the party a little bit. Have the sneaky perceptive one(s) take a small lead, and don't worry about the whole party being elite ninja scouts.
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Disadvantage in dim light, so in darkness, which is perceived as dim light. DV let's you see in dim light as if it were bright light. So with a torch, you get to see as bright light out to 40ft, the disadvantage on perception between 40ft and your DV range, then blinded. Without DV, it's normal vision to 20ft, disadvantage on perception checks between 20ft and 40ft, then blinded after 40ft. That's a pretty big difference, you're more than doubling the area that you can see. For an archer or caster, that's effectively means then difference between someone not being able to be seen until they can probably use their movement and get in melee range and being able to see them and keep them at a healthy distance while hitting them with ranged. And of course, you don't have to hold a torch, meaning that you can use archery or have annextranhand free for something else, as well as not giving your party away or using up your action economy.
If I remember rightly it's suggested that you use group checks for stealth, not individual ones (for parties that are sticking close together). Only half the party has to be sneaky enough to pass the check. You could split up the party and have stealthy ones go ahead to try and preserve the surprise balance, but that also means that your sneaky ones, who are probably less armoured, are also in that combat alone until the party catches up, the number ofnyour party taking advantage of the surprise aspect is lower, and it also precludes you from being a sneaky one. It also doesn't answer the problem that you have to hold your torch, causing issues with anything that would need that hand to do, like shoot a bow or wield a two hander, or to do two handed weapon fighting, or to hold a shield, or...you get the point.
Want to play D&D? Try the following resources first (each section withing vertical bars is a clickable link to find the resource).
|The free Basic Rules.|
|Some free short adventures| and |some more here too.| |Here is a series of encounters, some of which link together form a mini-adventure|.
They are mostly short adventures intended to be completed in one or two sessions (each session being a few hours long).
Personally, my issue with darkvision is that WotC gave it out too freely so that it feels more like you're penalized for taking a race that doesn't have it rather than getting a bonus for taking a race that does.
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A hooded lantern is a wonderful item for the party (member) that wants to switch between a bright radius of light and a 10-ft radius of dim light (and vice versa) with a single action. And it can be worn on a backpack or belt. Beats a torch big time, and can be hooded and hidden around a corner to avoid alerting enemies to your presence.
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yeah that's my point, if your party has darkvision and so do the monster than its likely with disadvantage on percep checks your two groups will pass each other. If the monsters have a light source than you are likely to spot them easily because.. bright lights in the night, but the party having darkvision will not be immediately spotted because they aren't broadcasting their existence so they can creep in on the monsters or avoid them
Vice versa if the party lacks it and needs torches to get around than monsters have a much easier time ambushing them if they have darkvision as the beacon of fire gives away the party but the monsters are just free of that restriction
Not having to walk around with torches and lanterns is a really big benefit, than you can add in other stuff like.. not having to tie up a hand holding a torch or carrying a lantern
It's only disadvantage on Perception checks that rely on sight though, which brings me back to now everyone needing to have a good Stealth bonus as well to reliably escape notice in the dark. That's why I think it's better not to worry too much about Darkvision for absolutely everyone. Let the characters who do well in the dark do their thing, and let the others follow just far enough to not spoil the surpise but still be close enough to come help out quickly. Or, if it works out that way, let the non-stealthy ones draw attention and ambush with the others.
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