Hey!

A while ago i was kicked out of a group playing d&d and i would like to hear your opinion on this.

I was playing a warlock/the fiend Chaotic neutral going towards evil alignment. His personal traits were manipulative and greedy.

We had no session zero and was told later that PvP was not allowed when i tried to use command spell with ”surrender” on our tank during a streetfight between him and another player.

anyway, as i rescued this tank one time with ”spare the dying” i asked for payment for future help this way, and the price i was asking was his whiskers (he plays a leonin) and with a little persuasion he gave me one, the dwarf shaved off  half of his beard.
later on this leonin created a shortword for me with his name carved in it.

Between some sessions i hired a child hireling to give me information and deliver messages and in the end spread a rumor about the leonin as being the leader of an assassin organization. The NPC did not do well on several occasions and was only a cost with no benefit so i killed the hireling and planted the leonins whisker on the body and impaled the shortsword in the childs body.

i had a plan that he was supposed to stand before the king charged with murder. since i met king earlier and warned them about a demon that was set free i could persuade him into letting leonin free under my responibility, i would only ask for all his whiskers for this.

after that session, i had to explain my actions for DM. He told me i ruin the game with PvP and kicked me from the group.
I dont think that is PvP and i believe I didnt deserve getting kicked from the group.

If you read this far, what do you think?

Its probably pretty telling that in all of your description you've not mentioned any of the actual plot threads set out by the DM or the general narrative of the game and instead just said all the things you did/wanted to do. I don't know what kind of game your DM was wanting to play but assuming a general lighthearted module/campaign (likely given no session 0 so probably taken for granted) it sounds like you wanted to derail whatever was going on just to push whatever plan your character was going for, and so your DM was likely right in his decision to kick you out. Unless there was conversations you haven't told us about, you basically decided to completely change the game for the poor leonin guy so rather than going along with whatever the narrative was he may have thought instead he's get accused of killing children and arrested, which doesn't sound like a fun game not least if its caused by another player rather than the DM.

I'm not saying its definitely the case for you but its pretty common for people to play neutral or evil characters then just act like arseholes 'in-game' and basically intentionally or unintentionally make themselves the star of the show while the plot of the campaign veers completely off what the DM/rest of the party was planning. Its why playing evil characters in good campaigns get such a bad rep because instead of being a character lacking morales, with Machiavellian agenda or with any great character depth that means going along with the party, its often just an excuse for messing things up then using 'What? My character is evil' as a thin excuse. 

You are right, i havent described the game and i litterally cant do that either because there never seemed like there was an actual plot to follow, when the demon was released through a ritual i thought that would be a big thing so i went to tell the king about it, but we as a group received nothing for that. Otherwise it was just Side-quests through the sessions. Going here slaying an enemy, going there slaying another. There wasnt much to derail in all honesty.

the player who played leonin was the one who wanted to be everywhere every time something happened acting as the star of the show, he was cheating and several players saw it and was metagaming too much even though everyone told him not to, even DM.

So yeah, i wanted to frame him for a fun cause, mainly because he could act and do whatever without getting in trouble for it, being a friend with the DM.
I wanted something more to happen because for about several sessions nothing happened and i wanted to give DM opportunity to use something i did to evolve his story into something useful.

Every time i tried something, putting up a flyer in a major city to get work, hire a hireling to gain some information/gossip, joining mages guild (where a wizard mainly ******** to a crystal ball in the lobby, true story) talking to different NPC to try to get somewhere. Nothing i did gave me anything, so i grew tired became a criminal just for something to happen.

any time i tried something i got like ”your mama” as an answer.

Well if thats the case it sounds like the DM did you a favour, that doesn't sound like a fun game to be involved with and maybe you can find a better one now you aren't in that one. Either that or maybe try having a talk with the DM/Other Players as it sounds a bit directionless and that's probably why these sort of things like cheating and PVP came up so strongly.

Seems like you wanted to just play a fun game though and these guys seem like they're either super new so its just a hectic mess or playing the sort of unorthodox anything goes game that usually isn't too fun for the genuine D&D roleplayer sorts of people (myself included).

I am new to the whole DnD game, started in this group and i dont really know anyone else and the reason i ask on this forum is because everyone seems to think i did something wrong. I tried telling DM about it with some feedback since i am no longer a part of the game. But he took it as a personal insult instead of trying to see what i wanted to tell him.

yes, i understand fun is different from person to person and PvP can ruin the fun of it, if done thoughtless, but i do cherish the idea that everyone get to do whatever in rpgs, but everything you do can and will have consequences just like in real life.

For exemple a thief is a thief, so he/she should be allowed to try to steal from the party if he want to, but consequences may happen, you know what i mean.

anyway thank you for responding 🙏🏻

Quote from Necromutant >>

..., but i do cherish the idea that everyone get to do whatever in rpgs, but everything you do can and will have consequences just like in real life.

That works for some groups, but not at all for others. I suggest for next time that if the DM doesn't bring up having a session 0, you do. Getting everyone's expectations more or less lined up can save a lot of trouble down the road. Nobody's fun is worth any more or less than anyone else's, so as much as you're entitled to playing the way you like everyone else is entitled to the same thing; either find a compromise everyone can agree to, or walk away and try another group. 

Golden rule of D&D. Don't be a dick to the other players.

You're supposed to be a team. You go on adventures to achieve a common goal.

If you play D&D with FPS/video game/PvP mentality, you'll likely be unpopular.

The way you were playing was plotting and scheming against the other PCs. I haven’t ever seen that result in a positive outcome. Every time I’ve seen that happen it has resulted in hurt feelings and anger between the players. 

I specifically tell anyone playing in my games where I’m the DM that what you did is off limits and forbidden and if they want to lay that way they’re not a good fit for my games. 

Yes i know, but of you read the reply i made to another comment, i hope you will be able to see why i did what i did.

If you are kind of bored or not happy with the direction of the game it's better to talk to the DM rather than try and stir things up in character. There's a difference between trying to constructively make change in the world and plotting for the downfall and detriment of the other player characters. You did a party foul.

Quote from Necromutant >>

For exemple a thief is a thief, so he/she should be allowed to try to steal from the party if he want to, but consequences may happen, you know what i mean.

 

 Not really unless the DM explicitly allows this... So basically you can just play the thief subclass and say "Now I can steal from you hahahaha". If you make a character and EVER need to make "It's what my character would do" excuse, then you've made the wrong character. Period.

I think a game like Rust may be more suitable to your playstyle preference.

I answered another reply with information why things happened as it did.

you may read it if you like.

That is PVP. You would be asked to leave my group as well. Your actions are not justified by any other player’s actions.

You stated earlier that you "do cherish the idea that everyone get to do whatever in rpgs".

And with that freedom, you chose to stir things up in a negative way, instead of being constructive.

Some DM try to make a completely open/sandbox world instead of the typical linear adventure. It's a valid option, but it requires a lot of time from a skilled DM. And it can feel directionless if done poorly.

However, that doesn't justify being a jerk to the other players.

So if i understand you correctly.
A thief should not steal?
Isnt that the same as saying a fighter shouldnt fight?

i mean, one doesnt have to do it all the time at every given time. But i think one could be excused to do as the character would do once in a while.

Quote from Necromutant >>

So if i understand you correctly.
A thief should not steal?
Isnt that the same as saying a fighter shouldnt fight?

i mean, one doesnt have to do it all the time at every given time. But i think one could be excused to do as the character would do once in a while.

You're doing a lot of justification, you realize this, right? Maybe take a step back and reflect that D&D is not a video game. There are other people behind the characters you're messing around with and as a group activity you have to take your fellow players feelings into account. Think of it as a group sport and don't foul your fellow players or the coach (DM).

I'm surprised nobody has linked this video yet. Give it a watch and see why people don't like this.

Matt Coleville's - The Wangrod Defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoYR3eCFqoA

Quote from Necromutant >>

So if i understand you correctly.
A thief should not steal?
Isnt that the same as saying a fighter shouldnt fight?

i mean, one doesnt have to do it all the time at every given time. But i think one could be excused to do as the character would do once in a while.

 Why would a character steal from others they are travelling and adventuring with? Why would they want to anger those they rely on to watch their back in combat? 

Regardless, you’re missing the point. Players have expectations of how the campaign will go, and conflict within the party for silly, selfish reasons typically is not part of those expectations. If that’s what you want nonetheless, fine, but check before the campaign starts that everyone is ok with it. And if not, adjust your character or find a different group to play with. If everyone else in the group feels you did something wrong, guess what: you did something wrong. That’s how social, cooperative games work. It doesn’t matter that you feel differently, what matters is what the group as a whole feels.

So if i understand you correctly.
A thief should not steal?

No. A thief should not steal from the party, unless the other players are OK with it. Other players hate this kind of thing (see the video Emmber linked above) -- they (let me say we, here, since I am one of them, as a player) do not like having to be on guard against the other players in the middle of a session. It's not fun for anyone but the thief.

A thief can steal from the NPCs -- if, and only if, it is not going to hose the party. If you steal from the king and get the party thrown in jail, or worse get them into trouble but you escape it, again, most players do not enjoy that kind of RP. Unless you have agreed to it ahead of time.

If you played an assassin, would you try to assassinate the entire party? What is the point of playing a game with other PCs in the party if you are just going to kill them? It is common practice in D&D and most RPGs that your assassin might kill FOR the party, but isn't going to KILL the party.

Isnt that the same as saying a fighter shouldnt fight?

No, because generally the fighter is not fighting other members of the party. He's not supposed to do that either.

You seem like your mentality was to just jack everyone else around for the fun of it. If that's your idea of fun, I wouldn't want to play with you either.