So Im DMing a 8th level party of friends through ToA in a weekly home game. Last session the party met up with some frost giants tracking Artus Cimber. The party parlayed with the giant and secured a looses alliance by giveing them the hide of a young black dragon they killed in a previous adventure. They eventually made it to Orolunga, got to the top the pryamid and met Artus who was confering with the guardian Naga. Xandala (played by another player) managed to dominate Artus and get the Ring of Winter. She bolts and tries to fly away on the side opposite to giants position. Giant fail perception horribly. Players chance but loose line of sight and lob aoe spells in her direction. Kill her with fireball, wizard dimention doors to fireball ignition point. Party struggles to get down from 50ft pyramid. Giant figure out something is happening. Wizards finds her charred body, asks if he can see the party, he can't. Picks up the Ring of Winter, looks at me and smiles. He's been collecting "samples" of creatures the party slays. Says he takes out a jar of grey ooze (has cold resistance) and drops the ring inside, casts invisibility on the body. None of the party or giants can see this happen. End session.
Yeah, I mean it all seems pretty clear where to go from here:
Artus is a high level NPC and his stat block shows that he's not an idiot. He is likely to follow the party to where the Wizard is and demand his right back if he doesn't immediately find it. The wizard may try to lie to him with an opposed Deception/Insight roll but Artus may also just happen to have a Locate Object scroll on hand as well in case he ever gets separated from the ring.
The Giants are likely to try to capture Artus if he is still there when they arrive. They are also very likely to try to kill the party if the ring is missing, expecting to search the bodies after the fight. Truce or not, the Giants are after the ring and if the party makes thing difficult in any way, they are likely to get attacked first.
The Wizard player may think he's being clever (and honestly, aside from a few missteps, he sort of is), but the problem is that it is very likely that nobody is going to believe a "the body is gone and I don't know where the ring is" sort of story. After all Invisibility does not last forever and the seekers are likely to want to search the area very thoroughly for any trace of Xandala or the ring. They are bound to either trip over an invisible corpse or have it reappear at some point during the search.
As for the rest of the part, they may or may not care about any deception, depending on whether they were trying to be friendly with Artus or not. The Ring of Winter is a rather powerful artifact-level item. They may be willing to forgive the Wizard player for securing this powerful item for the party to use later in the adventure.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Yeah, I mean it all seems pretty clear where to go from here:
Artus is a high level NPC and his stat block shows that he's not an idiot. He is likely to follow the party to where the Wizard is and demand his right back if he doesn't immediately find it. The wizard may try to lie to him with an opposed Deception/Insight roll but Artus may also just happen to have a Locate Object scroll on hand as well in case he ever gets separated from the ring.
The Giants are likely to try to capture Artus if he is still there when they arrive. They are also very likely to try to kill the party if the ring is missing, expecting to search the bodies after the fight. Truce or not, the Giants are after the ring and if the party makes thing difficult in any way, they are likely to get attacked first.
The Wizard player may think he's being clever (and honestly, aside from a few missteps, he sort of is), but the problem is that it is very likely that nobody is going to believe a "the body is gone and I don't know where the ring is" sort of story. After all Invisibility does not last forever and the seekers are likely to want to search the area very thoroughly for any trace of Xandala or the ring. They are bound to either trip over an invisible corpse or have it reappear at some point during the search.
As for the rest of the part, they may or may not care about any deception, depending on whether they were trying to be friendly with Artus or not. The Ring of Winter is a rather powerful artifact-level item. They may be willing to forgive the Wizard player for securing this powerful item for the party to use later in the adventure.
While Artus isnt an idiot, he isnt as powerful as you think, especially without the ring. ToA has him listed as a CR 9 and with out the ring I honestly think the party fighter could take him in single combat. Plus the Ring of Winter cannot be detected via scrying or other divination magic.
I kind of figured there would be conflict with the giant. And I think you are right they are here for the ring and if anything gets in the way they are just going to smash it.
I agree nobody would believe the line "the body is gone and I don't know where the ring is" line...But because she was out of line of sight they didn't see her die. They cast AoE spells and got lucky essentially. I think the wizard is going to try to convince them that she got away. They may search the area anyway and in that case the time is ticking on the invisible body trick.
Not sure how the party will react. Because we ended right after that so they have had a week to sit on that. One player was unable to make so he has no idea
The main quest of ToA doesn't have anything to do with this side quest. Kill Artus, take ring, avoid corruption, and clean your hands of it. No crisis. Back to exploration!
The main quest of ToA doesn't have anything to do with this side quest. Kill Artus, take ring, avoid corruption, and clean your hands of it. No crisis. Back to exploration!
LMAO love it...knowing my players they probably will if the giants dont kill them first.
The player should take an immediate alignment change to Evil. Taking the Ring of Winter is one of the most Evil acts a character can do while in Chult - taking an evil, sentient artifact as part of your collection. It's sentient, so it will try to control the Wizard and corrupt him. When Artus and the Wizard meetup, the Wizard will have to then lie to Artus when he asks where the ring is. The player is now a villain of the campaign. I would have them retire their character and roll a new one.
The player should take an immediate alignment change to Evil. Taking the Ring of Winter is one of the most Evil acts a character can do while in Chult - taking an evil, sentient artifact as part of your collection. It's sentient, so it will try to control the Wizard and corrupt him. When Artus and the Wizard meetup, the Wizard will have to then lie to Artus when he asks where the ring is. The player is now a villain of the campaign. I would have them retire their character and roll a new one.
While I agree with you that the Ring of Winter is a powerful sentient item and will definitely try to take control or corrupt the wizard (though I think the ring has to worn for it to attempt that) But I completely disagree with removing the character from play. I hate the idea of constraining my players agency over fear of losing their character. I only remove a character in that manner if by player choices they have become antagonistic to the party.
Ps- I dont feel like theft is an evil act, immoral? Sure, but it isn't the same as trying to become a lich or vampire, or making a pact with a devil. But definitely not worth getting removed from play over.
While I agree with you that the Ring of Winter is a powerful sentient item and will definitely try to take control or corrupt the wizard (though I think the ring has to worn for it to attempt that) But I completely disagree with removing the character from play. I hate the idea of constraining my players agency over fear of losing their character. I only remove a character in that manner if by player choices they have become antagonistic to the party.
Ps- I dont feel like theft is an evil act, immoral? Sure, but it isn't the same as trying to become a lich or vampire, or making a pact with a devil. But definitely not worth getting removed from play over.
The ring communicates its corrupting, chaotic evil thoughts even when the Wizard is not wearing it: "The ring communicates by transmitting emotion to the creature carrying or wielding it". It can only take control when the Wizard wields it, but it can haunt the Wizard. If he ever leaves it somewhere, I'd imagine it could communicate to nearby creatures? I'm not sure on that. Rings do have a way of getting themselves found, eventually.
Acquiring powerful Evil sentient artifacts through theft and deceit is an immoral, evil act. I'd argue it's much worse than making a pact with a Devil.
I don't have players running villains in my campaign. It's up to you if you want that.
The ring communicates its corrupting, chaotic evil thoughts even when the Wizard is not wearing it: "The ring communicates by transmitting emotion to the creature carrying or wielding it". It can only take control when the Wizard wields it, but it can haunt the Wizard. If he ever leaves it somewhere, I'd imagine it could communicate to nearby creatures? I'm not sure on that. Rings do have a way of getting themselves found, eventually.
Acquiring powerful Evil sentient artifacts through theft and deceit is an immoral, evil act. I'd argue it's much worse than making a pact with a Devil.
I don't have players running villains in my campaign. It's up to you if you want that.
That is good to know to be honest, I thought it was just wearing it that it could affect a creature but knowing that the ring can influence someone just carrying it is super helpful piece of information to have.
Lol, stealing an artifact and lying is more evil than making a compact with a murderous fiend who wants nothing more than to enslave the souls of humanity forever? Doubt it.
I don't use alignment in my games because it constrains to many decisions. My world is painted it shades of grey because everyone is the hero in their own story. And even the most righteous would be heros will inevitably stray into darkness, what matters is if they have the strength to return to the light.
That is good to know to be honest, I thought it was just wearing it that it could affect a creature but knowing that the ring can influence someone just carrying it is super helpful piece of information to have.
Lol, stealing an artifact and lying is more evil than making a compact with a murderous fiend who wants nothing more than to enslave the souls of humanity forever? Doubt it.
I don't use alignment in my games because it constrains to many decisions. My world is painted it shades of grey because everyone is the hero in their own story. And even the most righteous would be heros will inevitably stray into darkness, what matters is if they have the strength to return to the light.
Here's what the Adventurers League Primer says about stealing the ring:
Characters involved in facilitating the theft of Bookmark or the Ring of Winter are permanently and irrevocably retired from Adventurers League play—some crimes are beyond forgiveness.
Here's what the Adventurers League Primer says about stealing the ring:
Characters involved in facilitating the theft of Bookmark or the Ring of Winter are permanently and irrevocably retired from Adventurers League play—some crimes are beyond forgiveness.
I'm well aware of what AL says about stealing the ring. To me this is to avoid power creep, in AL its very much tuned so that every encounter is viable for any players who may or may not be attending that game. This isn't a worry for me because I'm running a home game and I'm not worried about power creep because I'm comfortable adjusting enemies to account for that sort of thing.
I'm really just curious aboutwhat would Artus Cimber's and the giants reaction to all of this. I was also toying with an idea about keeping Xandala alive.
Basic premise is that Xandala wasn't the body that was fireballed by the party at the Ziggurat.
In actuality, Xandala is the psuedodragon, having been cursed to inhabit that form by a powerful magic user. She also isn't an innately evil personality, just driven by the curse to pursue the artifact at any cost. The body that they destroyed was just a peasant that she has enthralled and basically used as a meat puppet to ingratiate herself with the party.
The attempt at taking the ring at the Ziggurat was risky, but there was no real down side. If it succeeded, she could fly off after the puppet and make good her escape. In the event of failure, it simply brings Sumerwise in tighter with the party.
Plenty of hooks for future drama/questlines. The wizard might be able to pick up a familiar with a very distinct personality of their own. How to handle the curse and the ring. What kind of drama/dissent can she cause from within.
I think AL wants to keep power levels equal, but also don't want to break lore for adventure consistency. Artus is a hero of the realm that has been in multiple novels in the official history of Faerun. Both he and Dragonbait would be very keen on doing anything to find it. (He and the ring are in Storm King's Thunder, for example, and might be in future adventures)
But with that said, you're not in AL. My thoughts are: why give stats for the ring of they didn't think someone could end up with it? Although I do agree that the player stealing it should switch to evil. Artus willingly gave up his personal quest of finding his wife to help the adventurers, which was a tough decision for him since he doesn't trust adventurers to begin with per his personality info. Willingly stealing from a good hero that put aside personal quests to help them is definitely an alignment changer. (That player becoming evil affects how the ring interacts with them.)
Also, if you're going to let them keep it, make sure that they begin to be targeted by all the factions that are currently after the ring. (Giants, Red Wizards, etc) They want it to control white dragons or freeze the world. Could be a decent future plot hook after ToA.
I don't get it, why is stealing from an NPC a bad thing? don't we do it all the time when we loot the dead, pick pocket or basically adventure? isn't that sorta the point is to get loot?
Who cares if it is Artimus? yes, this is AL making a power move. So if you killed him in AL and took the ring you are ok, but forbid you steal it? (I am not in Al as I have my own views on that matter). I mean even D.C.A. that is run by Chris Perkins they killed him and took the ring.
My $.02 is you are good, D&D is about having fun. Either let it happen or let them attempt to make the rolls to let it happen. But let us know how it turns out.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
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So Im DMing a 8th level party of friends through ToA in a weekly home game. Last session the party met up with some frost giants tracking Artus Cimber. The party parlayed with the giant and secured a looses alliance by giveing them the hide of a young black dragon they killed in a previous adventure. They eventually made it to Orolunga, got to the top the pryamid and met Artus who was confering with the guardian Naga. Xandala (played by another player) managed to dominate Artus and get the Ring of Winter. She bolts and tries to fly away on the side opposite to giants position. Giant fail perception horribly. Players chance but loose line of sight and lob aoe spells in her direction. Kill her with fireball, wizard dimention doors to fireball ignition point. Party struggles to get down from 50ft pyramid. Giant figure out something is happening. Wizards finds her charred body, asks if he can see the party, he can't. Picks up the Ring of Winter, looks at me and smiles. He's been collecting "samples" of creatures the party slays. Says he takes out a jar of grey ooze (has cold resistance) and drops the ring inside, casts invisibility on the body. None of the party or giants can see this happen. End session.
What's do I do from here? I'm at a total loss.
What, specifically, has you stumped? Artus' next steps? Giants' responses? How to handle deception within the party?
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Yeah, I mean it all seems pretty clear where to go from here:
Just a RAI note that probably doesn't help now, but corpses are "effectively" objects and thus can't be targeted by Invisibility. https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/597077875049635840
The main quest of ToA doesn't have anything to do with this side quest. Kill Artus, take ring, avoid corruption, and clean your hands of it. No crisis. Back to exploration!
Formatting Tooltips, because I always forget
The player should take an immediate alignment change to Evil. Taking the Ring of Winter is one of the most Evil acts a character can do while in Chult - taking an evil, sentient artifact as part of your collection. It's sentient, so it will try to control the Wizard and corrupt him. When Artus and the Wizard meetup, the Wizard will have to then lie to Artus when he asks where the ring is. The player is now a villain of the campaign. I would have them retire their character and roll a new one.
In actuality, Xandala is the psuedodragon, having been cursed to inhabit that form by a powerful magic user. She also isn't an innately evil personality, just driven by the curse to pursue the artifact at any cost. The body that they destroyed was just a peasant that she has enthralled and basically used as a meat puppet to ingratiate herself with the party.
The attempt at taking the ring at the Ziggurat was risky, but there was no real down side. If it succeeded, she could fly off after the puppet and make good her escape. In the event of failure, it simply brings Sumerwise in tighter with the party.
Plenty of hooks for future drama/questlines. The wizard might be able to pick up a familiar with a very distinct personality of their own. How to handle the curse and the ring. What kind of drama/dissent can she cause from within.
Also who would want to steal Bookmark...that thing is junk and isont worth an attunment slot.
I think what you're doing is perfectly fine for a home game, FWIW.
Formatting Tooltips, because I always forget
1. Locate Object does not work on the ring.
2. Artus is not a spell caster and so he would not meet the requirements for casting from a spell scroll
I think AL wants to keep power levels equal, but also don't want to break lore for adventure consistency. Artus is a hero of the realm that has been in multiple novels in the official history of Faerun. Both he and Dragonbait would be very keen on doing anything to find it. (He and the ring are in Storm King's Thunder, for example, and might be in future adventures)
But with that said, you're not in AL. My thoughts are: why give stats for the ring of they didn't think someone could end up with it? Although I do agree that the player stealing it should switch to evil. Artus willingly gave up his personal quest of finding his wife to help the adventurers, which was a tough decision for him since he doesn't trust adventurers to begin with per his personality info. Willingly stealing from a good hero that put aside personal quests to help them is definitely an alignment changer. (That player becoming evil affects how the ring interacts with them.)
Also, if you're going to let them keep it, make sure that they begin to be targeted by all the factions that are currently after the ring. (Giants, Red Wizards, etc) They want it to control white dragons or freeze the world. Could be a decent future plot hook after ToA.
I don't get it, why is stealing from an NPC a bad thing? don't we do it all the time when we loot the dead, pick pocket or basically adventure? isn't that sorta the point is to get loot?
Who cares if it is Artimus? yes, this is AL making a power move. So if you killed him in AL and took the ring you are ok, but forbid you steal it? (I am not in Al as I have my own views on that matter). I mean even D.C.A. that is run by Chris Perkins they killed him and took the ring.
My $.02 is you are good, D&D is about having fun. Either let it happen or let them attempt to make the rolls to let it happen. But let us know how it turns out.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.