I read up on the Nemian Lion, and found it would be an interesting creature, but I have little experience with building homebrew monsters. Here I've copied a regular lion, and customized it to feel more like a creature immune to regular weapon attacks. I'm unsure however what challenge rating it should be and what fixes it could use.
Maybe they could attack in pairs, but otherwise I don't see these attacking in prides. Perhaps it would only be one, so I want to exchange pack tactics with something more thematic for it.
As for the bit, it would be interesting if it would maybe grab, until the next turn.
I am mainly missing setting a good amount of HP, and I'm unsure about the amount of health to give it, since it is so naturally resistant to damage.
I want it to feel truly dangerous and, until the players would have a way to deal with it, feel immune to regular damage. The Nemian Lion of myth would also ruin armor, so I copied over text doing this to its claw attack.
Nemian Lion Large beast, Unaligned Armor Class 15 (Natural Armor) Hit Points ? Speed 30 ft., climb 20ft
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA 20 (+5) 15 (+2) 20 (+5) 6 (-2) 12 (+1) 8 (-1)
Skills Perception +3, Stealth +6 Damage Resistances Bludgeoning, Piercing, And Slashing magical weapons Damage Immunities bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non magical weapons Senses passive Perception 13 Challenge ? (? XP)
Special: All weapon attacks automatically hit Nemian Lion until a weapon attack deals damage. Keen Smell. The lion has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell. Pack Tactics. The lion has advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of the lion's allies is within 5 ft. of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated. Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action. Running Leap. With a 10-foot running start, the lion can long jump up to 25 ft..
Actions Multiattack: The nemian lion makes as one attack each with its bite and claw. Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d10 + 5) piercing damage. Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d10 + 5) slashing damage. In addition, nonmagical armor worn by the target is partly ripped apart and takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. The armor is destroyed if the penalty reduces its AC to 10.
Edit: Come to think of it, a pack of them attacking a city could be an adventure onto itself. Females could be circling the city and the pride would be slowing eating the population. The male could be a boss monster, and there could be some cubs to interact with.
Edit2: A 2nd draft of this creature has been posted below.
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
I am unsure about the CR, which is why I'm trying to ask for help :) I don't know at what level such a creature would be believable for its strength. You could theoretically scale it and throw it at them level 4, but that doesn't feel like the power-level such a creature that is immune to normal weapon attacks would be. I'm considering in the range of level 8 feels good, but I can't justify it.
The thing about automatic hits is meant for flavor. I could add some more text to show its purpose. The idea is that a creature that believes it cannot be hurt by common metal, it would ignore weapons until it found out they are magical.
I like the Quaggoth's ability more, since the Blood Frenzy sounds like it would be very strong on a very tough creature, HP-wise.
d10s sounds fine. But the idea of challenge ratings is a bit more complicated than monster level in 4e. With abilities that limit only magic to be able to hurt it, and lessened effect from magical weapons, what is a fine HP for a creature for a 8'ish challenge rating creature? Is 2d10 damage also fair for the damage dice? What is a fair way to determine these factors in 5e?
For the uninitiated/averse-to-Google: The Nemean Lion was a Greek mythological monster, slain by Heracles as one of his Twelve Labors. The Nemean Lion's golden fur could not be harmed by any mortal (nonmagical) weapon, and its claws were supposed to be sharp enough to slice cleanly through any armor. Effectively, it's a regular (if huge) lion with mundane weapon immunity and vorpal claws.
The thing to remember in 5e is that magical weapons come into play shockingly early. Some classes can deploy magical weapon attacks as early as level 1, and people expect +1 weapons as early as level 3. Thus, the lion's signature imperviousness to mundane assault only works if it's a low-magic game (which the Greek myths would concur with, as mortals gaining access to magic was a very rare and noteworthy event). In a regular D&D game, the critter would be significantly less threatening. At CR 8, its mundane immunities would basically be completely moot.
One way to go about working around this is to grant the lion resistance to "minor" magical weapon attacks, i.e. any Uncommon or lower weapon or anything with less than a +2 bonus. Minor enchantments will get through, but only somewhat - you need serious magic to do the critter in. Even then, your spellcasters wouldn't give a fat shit about any kind of weapon resistance.
As cool as the legends are, the Nemean lion only really works in a setting with extremely restricted access to magic. Elsewise it'll just get Eldritch Bork'd or Fiyabolto'd to death from a hundred feet away while the barbarian soaks claw strikes.
As cool as the legends are, the Nemean lion only really works in a setting with extremely restricted access to magic. Elsewise it'll just get Eldritch Bork'd or Fiyabolto'd to death from a hundred feet away while the barbarian soaks claw strikes.
I have to disagree. While magic is often prevalent, a high hit point creature with a devastating attack strategy is worth its weight in CR. Speaking of CR, let's talk about expected CR.
I am unsure about the CR, which is why I'm trying to ask for help :) I don't know at what level such a creature would be believable for its strength. You could theoretically scale it and throw it at them level 4, but that doesn't feel like the power-level such a creature that is immune to normal weapon attacks would be. I'm considering in the range of level 8 feels good, but I can't justify it.
I agree with you that CR 8 is a reach. I was thinking 5-6. It also sounds like you haven't looked at the DMG's Creating a Monster section which is incredibly detailed about creating a monster. I would supplement that with CR Calculator
I would remove the automatic hit. You can definitely flavor it as carelessness or describe that in the monster description. To reflect the lion's legendary nature, consider adding 2 legendary resistances and maybe legendary actions. One of the legendary actions could be like frightening presence (with a recharge) like what a dragon has.
You mentioned damage from the lion's attacks. I would decrease the claw's attack to 2d8 and give it another use of the claw in the multiattack.
I calculated the CR (aiming for CR 8, would be fine with CR 5). I gave it one legendary action, one of which was a claw attack, the other a frightening presence. I gave it 9 (2d8) for wounded fury. I assumed immunity to nonmagical weapons. I did not include pack tactics. I got a CR of 8 with 52 (5d10+25) hit points. Without the suggestions made here and just from the original stat block I got a CR of 6 with 73 (7d10+35) hit points.
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
As cool as the legends are, the Nemean lion only really works in a setting with extremely restricted access to magic. Elsewise it'll just get Eldritch Bork'd or Fiyabolto'd to death from a hundred feet away while the barbarian soaks claw strikes.
I have to disagree. While magic is often prevalent, a high hit point creature with a devastating attack strategy is worth its weight in CR.
Sure. Is said creature a Nemean Lion, though?
Something with a grip of HP and a powerful attack plan is...well, two-thirds of the critters in the DMG. What makes the Nemean Lion stand out is its immunity to mundane weapons, and the fact that this immunity was extremely problematic for the story it was featured in. A Nemean Lion with no immunity worth talking about, that doesn't give the PCs pause when attempting to strike it down, is just a critter like any other. If Anem wants this thing to feel like the Greek myths that spawned it, he's probably going to have to go outside the standard abilities the MM gives out.
I mostly agree with Yurei here. Unless you're homebrewing a decidedly low magic world and have rules in place that prohibit direct damage spells or punish the PCs for using them (like a 10% chance Wild Magic surge for every spell), this creature will not seem Legendary to most parties at 5th level or higher. I suggest looking at higher CR monstrosities in the Monster Manual for inspiration. The Androsphinx, for instance, is a magical lion with a wings, a human face, and Wizard level intelligence. It has True Sight, 2 condition immunities, a lot of spells, 3 tiers of a dangerous roar, and 3 possible legendary actions. It's CR might be a bit high for what you're thinking, but after trimming some spells and lowering the hp slightly? Definitely tough enough to challenge a party of 6th level PCs single-handedly without TPKing them.
The thing to remember in 5e is that magical weapons come into play shockingly early. Some classes can deploy magical weapon attacks as early as level 1, and people expect +1 weapons as early as level 3. Thus, the lion's signature imperviousness to mundane assault only works if it's a low-magic game (which the Greek myths would concur with, as mortals gaining access to magic was a very rare and noteworthy event). In a regular D&D game, the critter would be significantly less threatening. At CR 8, its mundane immunities would basically be completely moot.
One way to go about working around this is to grant the lion resistance to "minor" magical weapon attacks, i.e. any Uncommon or lower weapon or anything with less than a +2 bonus. Minor enchantments will get through, but only somewhat - you need serious magic to do the critter in. Even then, your spellcasters wouldn't give a fat shit about any kind of weapon resistance.
As cool as the legends are, the Nemean lion only really works in a setting with extremely restricted access to magic. Elsewise it'll just get Eldritch Bork'd or Fiyabolto'd to death from a hundred feet away while the barbarian soaks claw strikes.
There might be an element here that I did not consider, or rather didn't know, from the games I've been in personally; both as GM and player. I ran Curse of Strahd, which is quite low magic until you get a bit into the story. As a player in Hoard of the Dragon Queen, we're level 7 and have gotten 1 +1 weapon in the entire party, although I expect it is entirely the GM's fault here. On some level I think he'll first start considering giving us stuff when we get too close to a party wipe. So basically I wouldn't expect a party with full magic weapons at the suggested level.
I shall take your word that the magic item distribution would function as you suggest. Still, I do not see this creature being a CR 5 creature, a decent challenge for a party just getting their level 3 feature. To solve this I'd rather power the creature up, than adjust it for a lower level.
On some level I like your suggestion of "Minor Magic Weapon resistance", but doesn't "feel" right somehow. It feels more like a mechanic than a natural part of the world. One thing could be straight up making it immune to to the three melee types of damage, and only Adamantine gets through. Maybe only deal a weapon's enhancement bonus as damage, to simulate only the magic of the weapon getting through. This would essentially only be scratching the creature, making you feel just how tough it is. It could probably also do well with some other immunities; poison seeming obvious.
One more thought, in context with magic might take it down too quickly. Magic, to me, seems the crux of the creature. It doesn't need pseudo-invulnerability, just toughness. Perhaps giving it the Terrasque's Reflective Carapace ability. Its reflective skin would seem very appropriate ability, and it would still get hit by area spells.
I agree with you that CR 8 is a reach. I was thinking 5-6. It also sounds like you haven't looked at the DMG's Creating a Monster section which is incredibly detailed about creating a monster. I would supplement that with CR Calculator
I would remove the automatic hit. You can definitely flavor it as carelessness or describe that in the monster description. To reflect the lion's legendary nature, consider adding 2 legendary resistances and maybe legendary actions. One of the legendary actions could be like frightening presence (with a recharge) like what a dragon has.
You mentioned damage from the lion's attacks. I would decrease the claw's attack to 2d8 and give it another use of the claw in the multiattack.
I calculated the CR (aiming for CR 8, would be fine with CR 5). I gave it one legendary action, one of which was a claw attack, the other a frightening presence. I gave it 9 (2d8) for wounded fury. I assumed immunity to nonmagical weapons. I did not include pack tactics. I got a CR of 8 with 52 (5d10+25) hit points. Without the suggestions made here and just from the original stat block I got a CR of 6 with 73 (7d10+35) hit points.
On removing the automatic hit, are you suggesting either removing it or keeping it and flavoring it? Because a description of the creature could certainly handle this personality trait over having it as an automatic hit.
I've updated its attacks to match your suggestion, and added your other suggestions to it.
One thing I am noticing, is that with an HP of 52, a tempest cleric (I'm playing the unearthed arcana wizard school giving you access to a cleric domain) can nearly one short this creature with a lightning bolt, if it failed its save. This should mean two spells at this damage level would get quite close to taking it out, which doesn't "feel" right to me. But then again, I can only say this from just looking at numbers and guessing.
Something with a grip of HP and a powerful attack plan is...well, two-thirds of the critters in the DMG. What makes the Nemean Lion stand out is its immunity to mundane weapons, and the fact that this immunity was extremely problematic for the story it was featured in. A Nemean Lion with no immunity worth talking about, that doesn't give the PCs pause when attempting to strike it down, is just a critter like any other. If Anem wants this thing to feel like the Greek myths that spawned it, he's probably going to have to go outside the standard abilities the MM gives out.
This gives a strong feel of what I want. It is not just a strong creature that hits hard. It is an unstoppable force. I want its immunities to define it, making the PCs think about how to take it down. Hence, above, a few spells being able to take it down feels wrong. I hope something of my above response maybe helps on this feel.
I mostly agree with Yurei here. Unless you're homebrewing a decidedly low magic world and have rules in place that prohibit direct damage spells or punish the PCs for using them (like a 10% chance Wild Magic surge for every spell), this creature will not seem Legendary to most parties at 5th level or higher. I suggest looking at higher CR monstrosities in the Monster Manual for inspiration. The Androsphinx, for instance, is a magical lion with a wings, a human face, and Wizard level intelligence. It has True Sight, 2 condition immunities, a lot of spells, 3 tiers of a dangerous roar, and 3 possible legendary actions. It's CR might be a bit high for what you're thinking, but after trimming some spells and lowering the hp slightly? Definitely tough enough to challenge a party of 6th level PCs single-handedly without TPKing them.
I do not plan to make the campaign fit the monster, with the low-magic assumption here. I'm currently running Princes of the Apocalypse with my current group, and I'm planning on throwing in a few homebrew things, just to test out my skills. I'd like to test this, and that campaign seems high magic from how much I've prepared so far. So, when they meet it, I'd rather have anticipated their wielding of magic, rather than let that overrun it.
As to your suggestions, the responses to the creature perhpaps being too weak to magic had me look at the Terrasque's ability to avoid rays, and other direct hit spells. I'm thinking area of effect spells, save some at level 3, will deal less damage compared to area of effect spells. I'd rather increase its CR for the right feel, than make it work for a lower level. CR 17 might be a bit too lategame, but I'd rather do this than the alternative. I don't quite see it as a spellcaster :P
But I took your suggestion to take a look at higher CR creatures. I started with the Terrasque, since I already looked its Reflective Carapace. In writing up an updated set of features for my Nemian Lion, I see I accidentally added a feature like the Terrasque's Bite. I then updated it to match the wording. Here is a 2nd draft, taking into account all the comments so far. Its late, so Iøll leave it for now, but I expect it to change further.
Nemian Lion Large beast, Unaligned Armor Class 15 (Natural Armor) Hit Points 52 (5d10+25) - probably more Speed 30 ft., climb 20ft
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA 20 (+5) 15 (+2) 20 (+5) 6 (-2) 12 (+1) 8 (-1)
Skills Perception +3, Stealth +6 Damage Immunities bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non adamantine weapons Senses passive Perception 13 Challenge 8+ (? XP)
Keen Smell. The lion has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell. Wounded Fury. While it has 10 hit points or fewer, the nemian lion has advantage on attack rolls. In addition, it deals an extra 9 (2d8) damage to any target it hits with a melee attack. Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action. Legendary Resistance (2/Day): If the nemian lion fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead.
Actions Multiattack: The nemian lion makes three attacks, one with its bite and two with its claws. Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d10 + 5) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it is Grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is Restrained, until the nemian lion uses this attack again.
Vorpal Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d8 + 5) slashing damage. In addition, nonmagical armor worn by the target is partly ripped apart and takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. The armor is destroyed if the penalty reduces its AC to 10.
Legendary Action The nemian lion can take 1 legendary action, choosing from the options below. Legendary actions can only be taken at the end of another creature's turn. The Nemian Lion regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Attack: The nemian lion makes one claw attack. Frightful Presence: Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Description: The nemean lion's golden fur could not be harmed by any mortal weapon, and its claws were supposed to be sharp enough to slice cleanly through any armor. It's pride makes it careless, ignoring weapon attacks, and targetting creatures posing a threat.
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
I would recommend increasing its movement speed and possibly augmenting resistance to All piercing and slashing weapons to fit the theme. Heracles originally choked it to death right? That's like bludgeoning damage. Magical bludgeoning isn't used often by PC weapon wielders nowadays. If you want to really make the creature scary, change the effect of Frightful Presence to be similar to the abilities of the Conquest Paladin: those frightened not only get disadvantage on attacking the Lion, they also would be frozen in place b/c of how scared they are.
I spent a moment last night reading through the monster manual for inspiration, and found that the Iron Golem has a feel that is quite close to my idea! Here's another draft where I took some things out and put others in. I set its HP based on the iron golem, but took off 50 hp, presuming this is fair.
Nemian Lion Large Monstrocity, Unaligned Armor Class 19 (Natural Armor) Hit Points 160 (20d10+100) Speed 40 ft., climb 20ft
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA 20 (+5) 15 (+2) 20 (+5) 6 (-2) 12 (+1) 8 (-1)
Skills Perception +4
Damage Resistances Fire Damage Immunities bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non adamantine weapons: poison
Immutable Form. The golem is immune to any spell or effect that would alter its form.
Wounded Fury. While it has 30 hit points or fewer, the nemian lion has advantage on attack rolls. In addition, it deals an extra 9 (2d8) damage to any target it hits with a melee attack.
Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
Metallic Skin. Any time the nemian lionis targeted by a magic missile spell, a line spell, or a spell that requires a ranged attack roll, roll a d6. On a 1 to 5, the nemian lion is unaffected. On a 6, the nemian lion is unaffected, and the effect is reflected back at the caster as though it originated from the nemian lion, turning the caster into the target.
Actions Multiattack: The nemian lion makes three attacks, one with its bite and two with its claws. Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d10 + 5) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it is Grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is Restrained, until the nemian lion uses this attack again.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d8 + 5) slashing damage. In addition, nonmagical armor worn by the target is partly ripped apart and takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. The armor is destroyed if the penalty reduces its AC to 10. Frightful Presence (Recharge 6): Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Description: The nemean lion's golden fur could not be harmed by any mortal weapon, and its claws were supposed to be sharp enough to slice cleanly through any armor. It's pride makes it careless, ignoring weapon attacks, and targetting creatures posing a threat.
Basing it off of a golem is a good idea, if a little bit too strong. For its weapon immunity, it's easier to go with immunity to nonmagical and resistance to magical weapons. Instead of the reduction to ac, I'd give it a trait called Lethality.
Lethality. When making claw and bite attacks, the Nemean Lion ignores any resistance or immunity to slashing or piercing damage. If a target is wearing armor or has natural armor, it has advantage on attack rolls.
That makes it a threat even against barbarians (who otherwise laugh at this type of creature). It also makes anyone relying on armor easier to hit, making them more terrifying. Then we need to look at the actual damage dealt, which should be about 50-55 damage a round. If you give it 3 attacks per round (bite, claw, claw), then I'd recommend a 4d8+5 for the bite (23 avg damage) and 3d6+5 for the claws (15 avg damage). Those three attacks will work out to an averaged 53 damage per round. Coupled with Lethality, it makes it a genuinely scary creature.
Now for defenses. A beasts greatest weakness will always be magic. Give it a modified Danger Sense that gives it advantage on saving throws against dexterity and constitution saves from effects it can see. Advantage with thee two saves makes most direct damage spells less dangerous. If you are shooting for CR 8, it needs about 150 HP (especially as a solo). So with the Con you gave it, I'd say give it 14d10 hit dice. with the con, that's an average of 152 HP.
Give it at least a 50 feet walk speed. That way it can close much more easily. The rest can be filled in really on its own, since it is mostly flavor. Pounce is good for the alpha strike, but other than what I have listed above, it doesn't really need more unique abilities - it will rough up a 4-5 person party of level 8 PC's.
Also keep in mind, it realistically should not survive more than 4-6 rounds. Combats longer than that, especially against a single creature, is really hard to do without killing 1-2 players, especially below level 10.
The existing comments cover most of the bases, but one very minor point, Heracles was able to skin it and wear it as a cloak once it was dead. It still had the damage immunity quality, as shown in later stories. How did he do that? The myths don't explain that one (afaik).
In the mythos, it was a 'blessed' creature (divine?) and the invulnerability was strictly to its the outside hide. IIRC, it could be injured in the mouth. On death, it's blessed/divine essence remained in the skin.
I find the immunity to weapon damage quite integral to the creature. I don't want my PCs to go "This isn't doing as much as it could, but I can as well hit it". I want them to feel like this creature is, physically, nigh impenetrable, unless they figure out the whole bit about adamantine. So i'd rather reduce the HP and then have this fit, to keep this unique feeling.
Lethality sounds great! It works perfectly with the whole thing about slicing through armor as well. I've also adjusted the damage and speed. For now I'll replace Metallic Skin with your suggestions for a modifier Danger Sense.
Pounce comes from the base Lion creature. I quite like the idea of this creature, who ignores melee weapon attacks, jumping from target to target because it can can its extra pounce attack without fearing anything in its way. It shows how it will act in accordance with its features. I'd rather give it 2 claw attacks from multiattack, and it gets the bite from that feature, in which case the knocking prone could be changed to require no save.
These changes would change it to this. Based on the Iron Golem, CR8 doesn't sound like much.
Nemian Lion Large Monstrocity, Unaligned Armor Class 20 (Natural Armor) Hit Points 152 (14d10+70) Speed 50 ft., climb 20ft
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA 20 (+5) 15 (+2) 20 (+5) 6 (-2) 12 (+1) 8 (-1)
Skills Perception +4
Damage Immunities bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non adamantine weapons: poison
Immutable Form. The golem is immune to any spell or effect that would alter its form.
Lethality. When making claw and bite attacks, the Nemean Lion ignores any resistance or immunity to slashing or piercing damage. If a target is wearing armor or has natural armor, it has advantage on attack rolls.
Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
Danger Sense. The nemian lion gains advantage with dexterity and constitution saves from sources it can see.
Actions Multiattack: The nemian lion makes three attacks, one with its bite and two with its claws. Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (4d8 + 5) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it is Grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is Restrained, until the nemian lion uses this attack again.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (3d6 + 5) slashing damage. In addition, nonmagical armor worn by the target is partly ripped apart and takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. The armor is destroyed if the penalty reduces its AC to 10. Frightful Presence (Recharge 6): Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Description: The nemean lion's golden fur could not be harmed by any mortal weapon, and its claws were supposed to be sharp enough to slice cleanly through any armor. It's pride makes it careless, ignoring weapon attacks, and targetting creatures posing a threat.
EDIT: The two last comments came after I opened this window to write this XD
I wouldn't mind the idea of letting the PCs skin it for a cloak that perhaps gives +1 or +2 AC, and makes an object impenetrable when covered. Probably also make it too cumbersome for spellcasters, just in case.
Ok, what challenge rating are you going for again? Because basing it off of golem is going to make it hard for lower level players. Immunity tied to adamantine is VERY strong, nearly as strong as a Raksasha's spell immunity . And keep in mind - resistance to weapons (especially magic ones) effectively doubles a creatures HP. Immunity (especially adamantine) effectively triples (possibly quadruples) a creatures HP.
Coupled with lethality, that is simply too strong for anything less than a CR 10 creature.
Then I'll gladly Increase it's CR. Once it is as I like it for a given CR, I can reduce its CR as I need it. I can increase it to CR 10 then.You say at least. Would cr 11 or 12 be more reasonable?
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I read up on the Nemian Lion, and found it would be an interesting creature, but I have little experience with building homebrew monsters. Here I've copied a regular lion, and customized it to feel more like a creature immune to regular weapon attacks. I'm unsure however what challenge rating it should be and what fixes it could use.
Maybe they could attack in pairs, but otherwise I don't see these attacking in prides. Perhaps it would only be one, so I want to exchange pack tactics with something more thematic for it.
As for the bit, it would be interesting if it would maybe grab, until the next turn.
I am mainly missing setting a good amount of HP, and I'm unsure about the amount of health to give it, since it is so naturally resistant to damage.
I want it to feel truly dangerous and, until the players would have a way to deal with it, feel immune to regular damage. The Nemian Lion of myth would also ruin armor, so I copied over text doing this to its claw attack.
Nemian Lion
Large beast, Unaligned
Armor Class 15 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points ?
Speed 30 ft., climb 20ft
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
20 (+5) 15 (+2) 20 (+5) 6 (-2) 12 (+1) 8 (-1)
Skills Perception +3, Stealth +6
Damage Resistances Bludgeoning, Piercing, And Slashing magical weapons
Damage Immunities bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non magical weapons
Senses passive Perception 13
Challenge ? (? XP)
Special: All weapon attacks automatically hit Nemian Lion until a weapon attack deals damage.
Keen Smell. The lion has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.
Pack Tactics. The lion has advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of the lion's allies is within 5 ft. of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.
Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
Running Leap. With a 10-foot running start, the lion can long jump up to 25 ft..
Actions
Multiattack: The nemian lion makes as one attack each with its bite and claw.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d10 + 5) piercing damage.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d10 + 5) slashing damage. In addition, nonmagical armor worn by the target is partly ripped apart and takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. The armor is destroyed if the penalty reduces its AC to 10.
Edit: Come to think of it, a pack of them attacking a city could be an adventure onto itself. Females could be circling the city and the pride would be slowing eating the population. The male could be a boss monster, and there could be some cubs to interact with.
Edit2: A 2nd draft of this creature has been posted below.
What CR do you hope to reach?
I don't understand this line "All weapon attacks automatically hit Nemian Lion until a weapon attack deals damage" what do you mean by that?
In replacing Pack Tactics, if you still want to, consider the sahuagin's blood frenzy or the quaggoth's wounded fury.
In setting the HP, large creatures have d10s. The amount of hit dice is determined by immunities and resistances and expected CR.
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"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
I am unsure about the CR, which is why I'm trying to ask for help :) I don't know at what level such a creature would be believable for its strength. You could theoretically scale it and throw it at them level 4, but that doesn't feel like the power-level such a creature that is immune to normal weapon attacks would be. I'm considering in the range of level 8 feels good, but I can't justify it.
The thing about automatic hits is meant for flavor. I could add some more text to show its purpose. The idea is that a creature that believes it cannot be hurt by common metal, it would ignore weapons until it found out they are magical.
I like the Quaggoth's ability more, since the Blood Frenzy sounds like it would be very strong on a very tough creature, HP-wise.
d10s sounds fine. But the idea of challenge ratings is a bit more complicated than monster level in 4e. With abilities that limit only magic to be able to hurt it, and lessened effect from magical weapons, what is a fine HP for a creature for a 8'ish challenge rating creature? Is 2d10 damage also fair for the damage dice? What is a fair way to determine these factors in 5e?
For the uninitiated/averse-to-Google:
The Nemean Lion was a Greek mythological monster, slain by Heracles as one of his Twelve Labors. The Nemean Lion's golden fur could not be harmed by any mortal (nonmagical) weapon, and its claws were supposed to be sharp enough to slice cleanly through any armor. Effectively, it's a regular (if huge) lion with mundane weapon immunity and vorpal claws.
The thing to remember in 5e is that magical weapons come into play shockingly early. Some classes can deploy magical weapon attacks as early as level 1, and people expect +1 weapons as early as level 3. Thus, the lion's signature imperviousness to mundane assault only works if it's a low-magic game (which the Greek myths would concur with, as mortals gaining access to magic was a very rare and noteworthy event). In a regular D&D game, the critter would be significantly less threatening. At CR 8, its mundane immunities would basically be completely moot.
One way to go about working around this is to grant the lion resistance to "minor" magical weapon attacks, i.e. any Uncommon or lower weapon or anything with less than a +2 bonus. Minor enchantments will get through, but only somewhat - you need serious magic to do the critter in. Even then, your spellcasters wouldn't give a fat shit about any kind of weapon resistance.
As cool as the legends are, the Nemean lion only really works in a setting with extremely restricted access to magic. Elsewise it'll just get Eldritch Bork'd or Fiyabolto'd to death from a hundred feet away while the barbarian soaks claw strikes.
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I have to disagree. While magic is often prevalent, a high hit point creature with a devastating attack strategy is worth its weight in CR. Speaking of CR, let's talk about expected CR.
I agree with you that CR 8 is a reach. I was thinking 5-6. It also sounds like you haven't looked at the DMG's Creating a Monster section which is incredibly detailed about creating a monster. I would supplement that with CR Calculator
I would remove the automatic hit. You can definitely flavor it as carelessness or describe that in the monster description. To reflect the lion's legendary nature, consider adding 2 legendary resistances and maybe legendary actions. One of the legendary actions could be like frightening presence (with a recharge) like what a dragon has.
You mentioned damage from the lion's attacks. I would decrease the claw's attack to 2d8 and give it another use of the claw in the multiattack.
I calculated the CR (aiming for CR 8, would be fine with CR 5). I gave it one legendary action, one of which was a claw attack, the other a frightening presence. I gave it 9 (2d8) for wounded fury. I assumed immunity to nonmagical weapons. I did not include pack tactics. I got a CR of 8 with 52 (5d10+25) hit points. Without the suggestions made here and just from the original stat block I got a CR of 6 with 73 (7d10+35) hit points.
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"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Sure. Is said creature a Nemean Lion, though?
Something with a grip of HP and a powerful attack plan is...well, two-thirds of the critters in the DMG. What makes the Nemean Lion stand out is its immunity to mundane weapons, and the fact that this immunity was extremely problematic for the story it was featured in. A Nemean Lion with no immunity worth talking about, that doesn't give the PCs pause when attempting to strike it down, is just a critter like any other. If Anem wants this thing to feel like the Greek myths that spawned it, he's probably going to have to go outside the standard abilities the MM gives out.
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I mostly agree with Yurei here. Unless you're homebrewing a decidedly low magic world and have rules in place that prohibit direct damage spells or punish the PCs for using them (like a 10% chance Wild Magic surge for every spell), this creature will not seem Legendary to most parties at 5th level or higher. I suggest looking at higher CR monstrosities in the Monster Manual for inspiration. The Androsphinx, for instance, is a magical lion with a wings, a human face, and Wizard level intelligence. It has True Sight, 2 condition immunities, a lot of spells, 3 tiers of a dangerous roar, and 3 possible legendary actions. It's CR might be a bit high for what you're thinking, but after trimming some spells and lowering the hp slightly? Definitely tough enough to challenge a party of 6th level PCs single-handedly without TPKing them.
There is a lot of great feedback here! Thank you for all the ideas!
There might be an element here that I did not consider, or rather didn't know, from the games I've been in personally; both as GM and player. I ran Curse of Strahd, which is quite low magic until you get a bit into the story. As a player in Hoard of the Dragon Queen, we're level 7 and have gotten 1 +1 weapon in the entire party, although I expect it is entirely the GM's fault here. On some level I think he'll first start considering giving us stuff when we get too close to a party wipe. So basically I wouldn't expect a party with full magic weapons at the suggested level.
I shall take your word that the magic item distribution would function as you suggest. Still, I do not see this creature being a CR 5 creature, a decent challenge for a party just getting their level 3 feature. To solve this I'd rather power the creature up, than adjust it for a lower level.
On some level I like your suggestion of "Minor Magic Weapon resistance", but doesn't "feel" right somehow. It feels more like a mechanic than a natural part of the world. One thing could be straight up making it immune to to the three melee types of damage, and only Adamantine gets through. Maybe only deal a weapon's enhancement bonus as damage, to simulate only the magic of the weapon getting through. This would essentially only be scratching the creature, making you feel just how tough it is. It could probably also do well with some other immunities; poison seeming obvious.
One more thought, in context with magic might take it down too quickly. Magic, to me, seems the crux of the creature. It doesn't need pseudo-invulnerability, just toughness. Perhaps giving it the Terrasque's Reflective Carapace ability. Its reflective skin would seem very appropriate ability, and it would still get hit by area spells.
On removing the automatic hit, are you suggesting either removing it or keeping it and flavoring it? Because a description of the creature could certainly handle this personality trait over having it as an automatic hit.
I've updated its attacks to match your suggestion, and added your other suggestions to it.
One thing I am noticing, is that with an HP of 52, a tempest cleric (I'm playing the unearthed arcana wizard school giving you access to a cleric domain) can nearly one short this creature with a lightning bolt, if it failed its save. This should mean two spells at this damage level would get quite close to taking it out, which doesn't "feel" right to me. But then again, I can only say this from just looking at numbers and guessing.
This gives a strong feel of what I want. It is not just a strong creature that hits hard. It is an unstoppable force. I want its immunities to define it, making the PCs think about how to take it down. Hence, above, a few spells being able to take it down feels wrong. I hope something of my above response maybe helps on this feel.
I do not plan to make the campaign fit the monster, with the low-magic assumption here. I'm currently running Princes of the Apocalypse with my current group, and I'm planning on throwing in a few homebrew things, just to test out my skills. I'd like to test this, and that campaign seems high magic from how much I've prepared so far. So, when they meet it, I'd rather have anticipated their wielding of magic, rather than let that overrun it.
As to your suggestions, the responses to the creature perhpaps being too weak to magic had me look at the Terrasque's ability to avoid rays, and other direct hit spells. I'm thinking area of effect spells, save some at level 3, will deal less damage compared to area of effect spells. I'd rather increase its CR for the right feel, than make it work for a lower level. CR 17 might be a bit too lategame, but I'd rather do this than the alternative. I don't quite see it as a spellcaster :P
But I took your suggestion to take a look at higher CR creatures. I started with the Terrasque, since I already looked its Reflective Carapace. In writing up an updated set of features for my Nemian Lion, I see I accidentally added a feature like the Terrasque's Bite. I then updated it to match the wording. Here is a 2nd draft, taking into account all the comments so far. Its late, so Iøll leave it for now, but I expect it to change further.
Nemian Lion
Large beast, Unaligned
Armor Class 15 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 52 (5d10+25) - probably more
Speed 30 ft., climb 20ft
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
20 (+5) 15 (+2) 20 (+5) 6 (-2) 12 (+1) 8 (-1)
Skills Perception +3, Stealth +6
Damage Immunities bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non adamantine weapons
Senses passive Perception 13
Challenge 8+ (? XP)
Keen Smell. The lion has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.
Wounded Fury. While it has 10 hit points or fewer, the nemian lion has advantage on attack rolls. In addition, it deals an extra 9 (2d8) damage to any target it hits with a melee attack.
Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
Legendary Resistance (2/Day): If the nemian lion fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead.
Actions
Multiattack: The nemian lion makes three attacks, one with its bite and two with its claws.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d10 + 5) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it is Grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is Restrained, until the nemian lion uses this attack again.
Vorpal Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d8 + 5) slashing damage. In addition, nonmagical armor worn by the target is partly ripped apart and takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. The armor is destroyed if the penalty reduces its AC to 10.
Legendary Action
The nemian lion can take 1 legendary action, choosing from the options below. Legendary actions can only be taken at the end of another creature's turn. The Nemian Lion regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Attack: The nemian lion makes one claw attack.
Frightful Presence: Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Description: The nemean lion's golden fur could not be harmed by any mortal weapon, and its claws were supposed to be sharp enough to slice cleanly through any armor. It's pride makes it careless, ignoring weapon attacks, and targetting creatures posing a threat.
My suggestion was to remove it from the start block and describe it as a personality trait. I apologize for any confusion.
If you want more magic resistance, consider the bearded devil‘s magic resistance, or the rakshasa’s limited magic immunity.
While 52 hit points might not seem like a lot, the lion also has frightening presence and legendary resistances, buffing it’s defensive CR greatly.
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"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
I would recommend increasing its movement speed and possibly augmenting resistance to All piercing and slashing weapons to fit the theme. Heracles originally choked it to death right? That's like bludgeoning damage. Magical bludgeoning isn't used often by PC weapon wielders nowadays. If you want to really make the creature scary, change the effect of Frightful Presence to be similar to the abilities of the Conquest Paladin: those frightened not only get disadvantage on attacking the Lion, they also would be frozen in place b/c of how scared they are.
I spent a moment last night reading through the monster manual for inspiration, and found that the Iron Golem has a feel that is quite close to my idea! Here's another draft where I took some things out and put others in. I set its HP based on the iron golem, but took off 50 hp, presuming this is fair.
Nemian Lion
Large Monstrocity, Unaligned
Armor Class 19 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 160 (20d10+100)
Speed 40 ft., climb 20ft
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
20 (+5) 15 (+2) 20 (+5) 6 (-2) 12 (+1) 8 (-1)
Skills Perception +4
Damage Resistances Fire
Damage Immunities bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non adamantine weapons: poison
Condition Immunities exhaustion, paralyzed, petrified, poison
Senses passive Perception 13
Challenge 16 (15.000 XP)
Immutable Form. The golem is immune to any spell or effect that would alter its form.
Wounded Fury. While it has 30 hit points or fewer, the nemian lion has advantage on attack rolls. In addition, it deals an extra 9 (2d8) damage to any target it hits with a melee attack.
Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
Metallic Skin. Any time the nemian lionis targeted by a magic missile spell, a line spell, or a spell that requires a ranged attack roll, roll a d6. On a 1 to 5, the nemian lion is unaffected. On a 6, the nemian lion is unaffected, and the effect is reflected back at the caster as though it originated from the nemian lion, turning the caster into the target.
Actions
Multiattack: The nemian lion makes three attacks, one with its bite and two with its claws.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d10 + 5) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it is Grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is Restrained, until the nemian lion uses this attack again.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (2d8 + 5) slashing damage. In addition, nonmagical armor worn by the target is partly ripped apart and takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. The armor is destroyed if the penalty reduces its AC to 10.
Frightful Presence (Recharge 6): Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Description: The nemean lion's golden fur could not be harmed by any mortal weapon, and its claws were supposed to be sharp enough to slice cleanly through any armor. It's pride makes it careless, ignoring weapon attacks, and targetting creatures posing a threat.
Basing it off of a golem is a good idea, if a little bit too strong. For its weapon immunity, it's easier to go with immunity to nonmagical and resistance to magical weapons. Instead of the reduction to ac, I'd give it a trait called Lethality.
Lethality. When making claw and bite attacks, the Nemean Lion ignores any resistance or immunity to slashing or piercing damage. If a target is wearing armor or has natural armor, it has advantage on attack rolls.
That makes it a threat even against barbarians (who otherwise laugh at this type of creature). It also makes anyone relying on armor easier to hit, making them more terrifying. Then we need to look at the actual damage dealt, which should be about 50-55 damage a round. If you give it 3 attacks per round (bite, claw, claw), then I'd recommend a 4d8+5 for the bite (23 avg damage) and 3d6+5 for the claws (15 avg damage). Those three attacks will work out to an averaged 53 damage per round. Coupled with Lethality, it makes it a genuinely scary creature.
Now for defenses. A beasts greatest weakness will always be magic. Give it a modified Danger Sense that gives it advantage on saving throws against dexterity and constitution saves from effects it can see. Advantage with thee two saves makes most direct damage spells less dangerous. If you are shooting for CR 8, it needs about 150 HP (especially as a solo). So with the Con you gave it, I'd say give it 14d10 hit dice. with the con, that's an average of 152 HP.
Give it at least a 50 feet walk speed. That way it can close much more easily. The rest can be filled in really on its own, since it is mostly flavor. Pounce is good for the alpha strike, but other than what I have listed above, it doesn't really need more unique abilities - it will rough up a 4-5 person party of level 8 PC's.
Also keep in mind, it realistically should not survive more than 4-6 rounds. Combats longer than that, especially against a single creature, is really hard to do without killing 1-2 players, especially below level 10.
The existing comments cover most of the bases, but one very minor point, Heracles was able to skin it and wear it as a cloak once it was dead. It still had the damage immunity quality, as shown in later stories. How did he do that? The myths don't explain that one (afaik).
In the mythos, it was a 'blessed' creature (divine?) and the invulnerability was strictly to its the outside hide. IIRC, it could be injured in the mouth. On death, it's blessed/divine essence remained in the skin.
I find the immunity to weapon damage quite integral to the creature. I don't want my PCs to go "This isn't doing as much as it could, but I can as well hit it". I want them to feel like this creature is, physically, nigh impenetrable, unless they figure out the whole bit about adamantine. So i'd rather reduce the HP and then have this fit, to keep this unique feeling.
Lethality sounds great! It works perfectly with the whole thing about slicing through armor as well. I've also adjusted the damage and speed. For now I'll replace Metallic Skin with your suggestions for a modifier Danger Sense.
Pounce comes from the base Lion creature. I quite like the idea of this creature, who ignores melee weapon attacks, jumping from target to target because it can can its extra pounce attack without fearing anything in its way. It shows how it will act in accordance with its features. I'd rather give it 2 claw attacks from multiattack, and it gets the bite from that feature, in which case the knocking prone could be changed to require no save.
These changes would change it to this. Based on the Iron Golem, CR8 doesn't sound like much.
Nemian Lion
Large Monstrocity, Unaligned
Armor Class 20 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 152 (14d10+70)
Speed 50 ft., climb 20ft
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
20 (+5) 15 (+2) 20 (+5) 6 (-2) 12 (+1) 8 (-1)
Skills Perception +4
Damage Immunities bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non adamantine weapons: poison
Condition Immunities exhaustion, paralyzed, petrified, poison, frightened
Senses passive Perception 13
Challenge 8 (? XP)
Immutable Form. The golem is immune to any spell or effect that would alter its form.
Lethality. When making claw and bite attacks, the Nemean Lion ignores any resistance or immunity to slashing or piercing damage. If a target is wearing armor or has natural armor, it has advantage on attack rolls.
Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
Danger Sense. The nemian lion gains advantage with dexterity and constitution saves from sources it can see.
Actions
Multiattack: The nemian lion makes three attacks, one with its bite and two with its claws.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (4d8 + 5) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it is Grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is Restrained, until the nemian lion uses this attack again.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (3d6 + 5) slashing damage. In addition, nonmagical armor worn by the target is partly ripped apart and takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. The armor is destroyed if the penalty reduces its AC to 10.
Frightful Presence (Recharge 6): Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Description: The nemean lion's golden fur could not be harmed by any mortal weapon, and its claws were supposed to be sharp enough to slice cleanly through any armor. It's pride makes it careless, ignoring weapon attacks, and targetting creatures posing a threat.
EDIT: The two last comments came after I opened this window to write this XD
I wouldn't mind the idea of letting the PCs skin it for a cloak that perhaps gives +1 or +2 AC, and makes an object impenetrable when covered. Probably also make it too cumbersome for spellcasters, just in case.
Ok, what challenge rating are you going for again? Because basing it off of golem is going to make it hard for lower level players. Immunity tied to adamantine is VERY strong, nearly as strong as a Raksasha's spell immunity . And keep in mind - resistance to weapons (especially magic ones) effectively doubles a creatures HP. Immunity (especially adamantine) effectively triples (possibly quadruples) a creatures HP.
Coupled with lethality, that is simply too strong for anything less than a CR 10 creature.
Then I'll gladly Increase it's CR. Once it is as I like it for a given CR, I can reduce its CR as I need it. I can increase it to CR 10 then.You say at least. Would cr 11 or 12 be more reasonable?