Hello everyone, I have some doubt about the interaction between the spells Dream and Dominate Person
My plan is to use the Dream spell to plant doubts and fears in the mind of some NPC, like a premonitory dream.
The issue is that some of those NPC knows my character and it's not clear if the target of the Dream spell see the "messanger" (and so can recognize you) and if the "messanger" has to match the appereance: of the caster or of the "willing creature" that enters a trance state.
RAW: "You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger. [...] If the target is asleep, the messenger appears in the target's dreams and can converse with the target as long as it remains asleep, through the duration of the spell."
My idea is to use the Dominate Person spell (with a 6th level spell slot (!!!) or the time of casting the spells won't match) to take full control of a random NPC and use him as the "messanger" so that the target will not be able to recognize me even if in it's dream sees the messanger appearence.
The course of action would be:
find a random NPC that I can use as a "messanger";
cast Dominate Person on him at 6th level (or higher) so I can take full control of him for at least 1 hour (requires concentration);
cast Dream (wierdly does not require concentration) and use the random NPC as a "messanger";
make the target paranoid about betrayal plan, buisness failure, fake enemies...
I can't use Dominate Person as a 5th level spell because the duration is 1 minute and the casting time of Dream is 1 minute as well.
tl;dr: can you use a creature affected by the Dominate Person spell as a messanger for the Dream spell?
You need to cast Dominate Person at 7th level to get 1 hour out of it, 6th level gets you 10 minutes. And if your target isn't asleep yet when you cast the spell, you might be out of luck if you only have this person for 10 minutes.
As for whether you need another person at all, Dream says "The messenger can also shape the environment of the dream, creating landscapes, objects, and other images" and later that the caster "can make the messenger appear monstrous and terrifying to the target." So I think either manipulating the appearance of the messenger or putting an image around them or obscuring their visage with fog might all be viable options for just using yourself instead. I'd say you're going to have to talk to your DM about interpretation.
Yes sorry, you are completely right, casting Dream at level 6 last 10 minutes.
I already spoke with the DM about the effect of using only Dream and he would rule that the target can make a WIS saving throw to see the era form of the messanger, like the one that he would make to resist the nightmare and take damage, or a Deception vs Insight.
Using a puppet messanger can allow me to be more safe.
I think that this will probably work. The messenger is in a trance state and is aware of his surroundings so issuing telepathic commands to the messenger should be possible.
I think that the biggest issue is whether or not a creature affected by the Dominate Person spell qualifies as a "willing creature" for your Dream spell. A lot depends on what you (or more specifically, your DM) think "willing" means in that context. I have seen pages of entire threads dedicated to debating that concept.
in my opinion a creature under the effect of Dominate Person spell that you take full control of can be considered a "willing creature", if not there wouldn't be much difference between Dominate Person and Charm Person, but I can see the argument...
I will talk about that with my DM... maybe we can go for a Persuasion/Deception check vs against the "messanger" something (Insight?) to have him act as I want in the dream.
we are still lvl 10 so it will take some time before I can do this combo anyways.
I would also consider, that the dominated massenger in the dream might be the one to roll a persuasion/deception/performance check to get these fears and doubts convincingly conveyed to the dreaming target.
So you might want to dominate a bard or something like that. ;)
Hello everyone, I have some doubt about the interaction between the spells Dream and Dominate Person
My plan is to use the Dream spell to plant doubts and fears in the mind of some NPC, like a premonitory dream.
The issue is that some of those NPC knows my character and it's not clear if the target of the Dream spell see the "messanger" (and so can recognize you) and if the "messanger" has to match the appereance: of the caster or of the "willing creature" that enters a trance state.
RAW: "You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger. [...] If the target is asleep, the messenger appears in the target's dreams and can converse with the target as long as it remains asleep, through the duration of the spell."
My idea is to use the Dominate Person spell (with a 6th level spell slot (!!!) or the time of casting the spells won't match) to take full control of a random NPC and use him as the "messanger" so that the target will not be able to recognize me even if in it's dream sees the messanger appearence.
The course of action would be:
I can't use Dominate Person as a 5th level spell because the duration is 1 minute and the casting time of Dream is 1 minute as well.
tl;dr: can you use a creature affected by the Dominate Person spell as a messanger for the Dream spell?
You need to cast Dominate Person at 7th level to get 1 hour out of it, 6th level gets you 10 minutes. And if your target isn't asleep yet when you cast the spell, you might be out of luck if you only have this person for 10 minutes.
As for whether you need another person at all, Dream says "The messenger can also shape the environment of the dream, creating landscapes, objects, and other images" and later that the caster "can make the messenger appear monstrous and terrifying to the target." So I think either manipulating the appearance of the messenger or putting an image around them or obscuring their visage with fog might all be viable options for just using yourself instead. I'd say you're going to have to talk to your DM about interpretation.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Yes sorry, you are completely right, casting Dream at level 6 last 10 minutes.
I already spoke with the DM about the effect of using only Dream and he would rule that the target can make a WIS saving throw to see the era form of the messanger, like the one that he would make to resist the nightmare and take damage, or a Deception vs Insight.
Using a puppet messanger can allow me to be more safe.
I think that this will probably work. The messenger is in a trance state and is aware of his surroundings so issuing telepathic commands to the messenger should be possible.
I think that the biggest issue is whether or not a creature affected by the Dominate Person spell qualifies as a "willing creature" for your Dream spell. A lot depends on what you (or more specifically, your DM) think "willing" means in that context. I have seen pages of entire threads dedicated to debating that concept.
in my opinion a creature under the effect of Dominate Person spell that you take full control of can be considered a "willing creature", if not there wouldn't be much difference between Dominate Person and Charm Person, but I can see the argument...
I will talk about that with my DM... maybe we can go for a Persuasion/Deception check vs against the "messanger" something (Insight?) to have him act as I want in the dream.
we are still lvl 10 so it will take some time before I can do this combo anyways.
I would also consider, that the dominated massenger in the dream might be the one to roll a persuasion/deception/performance check to get these fears and doubts convincingly conveyed to the dreaming target.
So you might want to dominate a bard or something like that. ;)