You can manipulate chaos itself to give yourself Advantage on one D20 Test before you roll the d20. Once you do so, you must cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot or finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.
If you do cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot before you finish a Long Rest, you automatically roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.“
This reads to me, specifically in the area of combat as, on their turn, a WM Sorcerer can -
1. Pop ToC if it’s available to use 2. Cast a leveled spell ex: Witch Bolt 3. The casting of that Witch Bolt, regardless of it hits, triggers WMS and also fulfills the requirement of casting a sorcerer spell to refresh ToC for the next round
The way I read ToC, you use it when you are about to make a D20 Test -- i.e., you have to do the thing first to make ToC an option. It's not just a free-floating advantage you can save for a future roll. So if you're using it to get advantage on the attack roll for a spell, that spell can't then also qualify as the one to reset ToC because you need to have already cast it to even use ToC
IOW, the sequence would be:
1. Cast Witch Bolt 2. Activate ToC to get Advantage on the attack roll for that Witch Bolt 3. Cast another leveled spell afterward to reset ToC
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
What D20 test are you using ToC on? My reading is that you must already have the D20 test queued up before triggering ToC. Otherwise it would say something like, "The next D20 test you make has advantage..."
I believe there was a thread in here or in the sorcerer subforum that talked about using a cantrip with an attack roll, ToC on THAT, then using a quickened leveled spell to reset ToC for the next turn. That, I think, should work.
The way I read ToC, you use it when you are about to make a D20 Test -- i.e., you have to do the thing first to make ToC an option. It's not just a free-floating advantage you can save for a future roll. So if you're using it to get advantage on the attack roll for a spell, that spell can't then also qualify as the one to reset ToC because you need to have already cast it to even use ToC
IOW, the sequence would be:
1. Cast Witch Bolt 2. Activate ToC to get Advantage on the attack roll for that Witch Bolt 3. Cast another leveled spell afterward to reset ToC
This is my reading too, but I’d like to add my own answer in case I'm misunderstanding something.
The wording could be better, but to me ToC is used on any D20 Test (ability checks, saving throws, attack rolls) and, after that, it's when you must cast a Sorcerer spell using a spell slot. If you cannot do that (maybe you don't have any slots to expend), then you have to finish a Long Rest before you can use the feature again.
Additionally, if you cast that required Sorcerer spell with a spell slot before you finish a Long Rest, you automatically roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.
What D20 test are you using ToC on? My reading is that you must already have the D20 test queued up before triggering ToC. Otherwise it would say something like, "The next D20 test you make has advantage..."
I believe there was a thread in here or in the sorcerer subforum that talked about using a quickened cantrip with an attack roll, ToC on THAT, then using a leveled spell as an action to reset ToC for the next turn. That, I think, should work.
Putting aside how ToC works, is that possible? I mean, quickening a spell/cantrip and casting another level 1+ spell wouldn't be allowed on the current turn:
Quickened Spell
When you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action, you can spend 2 Sorcery Points to change the casting time to a Bonus Action for this casting. You can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a level 1+ spell on the current turn, nor can you cast a level 1+ spell on this turn after modifying a spell in this way.
What D20 test are you using ToC on? My reading is that you must already have the D20 test queued up before triggering ToC. Otherwise it would say something like, "The next D20 test you make has advantage..."
I believe there was a thread in here or in the sorcerer subforum that talked about using a quickened cantrip with an attack roll, ToC on THAT, then using a leveled spell as an action to reset ToC for the next turn. That, I think, should work.
Putting aside how ToC works, is that possible? I mean, quickening a spell/cantrip and casting another level 1+ spell wouldn't be allowed on the current turn:
Quickened Spell
When you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action, you can spend 2 Sorcery Points to change the casting time to a Bonus Action for this casting. You can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a level 1+ spell on the current turn, nor can you cast a level 1+ spell on this turn after modifying a spell in this way.
I read it twice before writing that and now that you've posted it, I had to read it again three more times before I was sure!! 🤣🤣
Yes, you can do it as long as you cast the cantrip first. Because the leveled spell is second, it gets by both of those conditions (you are not doing it after casting a leveled spell, nor are you quickening first). What that prevents you from doing is quickening a cantrip after a leveled spell or casting a leveled spell after quickening any spell (cantrip or otherwise, though there are other rules preventing the casting of most other leveled spells). Casting a cantrip, then quickening a leveled spell is one of the two ways you can cast two spells in one turn with quicken (the other is double cantrip).
Last edit, I promise: I think the best way to think about it is that it forces you to use your BA second if you want to double cast with quicken. And then, you can only cast a cantrip as the action.
I believe there was a thread in here or in the sorcerer subforum that talked about using a quickened cantrip with an attack roll, ToC on THAT, then using a leveled spell as an action to reset ToC for the next turn. That, I think, should work.
You need to use the Quickened Spell on the levelled spell. So use an Action to cast the cantrip and then a QS Bonus Action to cast the level 1+ spell. So same number of spells but the other way round.
I believe there was a thread in here or in the sorcerer subforum that talked about using a quickened cantrip with an attack roll, ToC on THAT, then using a leveled spell as an action to reset ToC for the next turn. That, I think, should work.
You need to use the Quickened Spell on the levelled spell. So use an Action to cast the cantrip and then a QS Bonus Action to cast the level 1+ spell. So same number of spells but the other way round.
Yeah, that's what I meant. In practice, it works the same as in 2014.
You can manipulate chaos itself to give yourself Advantage on one D20 Test before you roll the d20. Once you do so, you must cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot or finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.
If you do cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot before you finish a Long Rest, you automatically roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.“
This reads to me, specifically in the area of combat as, on their turn, a WM Sorcerer can -
1. Pop ToC if it’s available to use
2. Cast a leveled spell ex: Witch Bolt
3. The casting of that Witch Bolt, regardless of it hits, triggers WMS and also fulfills the requirement of casting a sorcerer spell to refresh ToC for the next round
Is this accurate within RAW or RAI?
The way I read ToC, you use it when you are about to make a D20 Test -- i.e., you have to do the thing first to make ToC an option. It's not just a free-floating advantage you can save for a future roll. So if you're using it to get advantage on the attack roll for a spell, that spell can't then also qualify as the one to reset ToC because you need to have already cast it to even use ToC
IOW, the sequence would be:
1. Cast Witch Bolt
2. Activate ToC to get Advantage on the attack roll for that Witch Bolt
3. Cast another leveled spell afterward to reset ToC
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
What D20 test are you using ToC on? My reading is that you must already have the D20 test queued up before triggering ToC. Otherwise it would say something like, "The next D20 test you make has advantage..."
I believe there was a thread in here or in the sorcerer subforum that talked about using a cantrip with an attack roll, ToC on THAT, then using a quickened leveled spell to reset ToC for the next turn. That, I think, should work.
Edit: Quickened is confusing.
This is my reading too, but I’d like to add my own answer in case I'm misunderstanding something.
The wording could be better, but to me ToC is used on any D20 Test (ability checks, saving throws, attack rolls) and, after that, it's when you must cast a Sorcerer spell using a spell slot. If you cannot do that (maybe you don't have any slots to expend), then you have to finish a Long Rest before you can use the feature again.
Additionally, if you cast that required Sorcerer spell with a spell slot before you finish a Long Rest, you automatically roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.
Putting aside how ToC works, is that possible? I mean, quickening a spell/cantrip and casting another level 1+ spell wouldn't be allowed on the current turn:
I read it twice before writing that and now that you've posted it, I had to read it again three more times before I was sure!! 🤣🤣
Yes, you can do it as long as you cast the cantrip first. Because the leveled spell is second, it gets by both of those conditions (you are not doing it after casting a leveled spell, nor are you quickening first). What that prevents you from doing is quickening a cantrip after a leveled spell or casting a leveled spell after quickening any spell (cantrip or otherwise, though there are other rules preventing the casting of most other leveled spells). Casting a cantrip, then quickening a leveled spell is one of the two ways you can cast two spells in one turn with quicken (the other is double cantrip).
Last edit, I promise: I think the best way to think about it is that it forces you to use your BA second if you want to double cast with quicken. And then, you can only cast a cantrip as the action.
Yea I had to take a break to ponder this. You can do it but not in the order you wrote in your first post.
You need to use the Quickened Spell on the levelled spell. So use an Action to cast the cantrip and then a QS Bonus Action to cast the level 1+ spell. So same number of spells but the other way round.
Oh, wow. Yeah, that's not right. Off to make another edit...
I wrote it the right way in the nearly identical thread in the sorcerer subforum, so 1 for 2 on that count.
Yeah, that's what I meant. In practice, it works the same as in 2014.