So. Vampires are essentially killed by being trapped in running water, but what counts are running water? Does the sea, or an ocean? If you put a vampire in a tunnel and drop a flood into the tunnel, does that kill it?
I'm also interested in this:
Misty Escape. When it drops to 0 hit points outside its resting place, the vampire transforms into a cloud of mist (as in the Shapechanger trait) instead offal lin g unconscious, provided that it isn't in sun light or running water. If it can't transform, it is destroyed.
Shapechanger. If the vampire isn't in sun light or running water, it can use its action to polymorph into a Tiny bat or a Medium cloud of mist, or back into its true form... it can't pass through water.
Does that mean that if a sea is dropped on it and deals enough force damage to bring it to 0 HP, but we assume it's not flowing and can't permakill it, it turns into mist but then can't move? Like, it's just stuck at the bottom of the sea until the sea evaporates?
That's understood, but how long does a canal have to flow before it counts? If water is running down a tunnel, it's potentially a canal until it runs out - in the same way a canal is a canal until it runs dry. It's just a time difference.
That's understood, but how long does a canal have to flow before it counts? If water is running down a tunnel, it's potentially a canal until it runs out - in the same way a canal is a canal until it runs dry. It's just a time difference.
Dont' know but as long as there is some "running water", even a small one, the vampire takes 20 acid damage.
That's understood, but how long does a canal have to flow before it counts? If water is running down a tunnel, it's potentially a canal until it runs out - in the same way a canal is a canal until it runs dry. It's just a time difference.
Please don't take this the wrong way because it's meant to be encouraging: You are over-thinking this one.
The rules say "Running water" and after that it's up to the DM. If that's you, hey just call it like you see it. If it's a friend, respect their call for the situation. It's deliberately simple because D&D tends to fall apart if you try to simulate reality in too much detail.
When playing with a DM who screws you at every opportunity, however, it's best to try and get a handle on what the default response is, so you know what to expect as the outcome of your actions.
When playing with a DM who screws you at every opportunity, however, it's best to try and get a handle on what the default response is, so you know what to expect as the outcome of your actions.
I think what's best when playing with a DM who screws you at every opportunity is to say "Stop screwing me/us at every opportunity, it's obnoxious." and find a new DM if they don't want to stop being a hindrance to the quality of their own game.
Agreed. While the DM should be running all hostile forces in the game as competently as possible, there should never be a "Screw the player(s)!" focus. Period.
That's not what social gaming is about. Never has been.
Challenge them? Sometimes intensely? Absolutely! Screw them? Never.
This whole topic reminds me of that episode of Jackie Chan Adventures where the chi vampire can't cross the bridge over the river until he gets strong enough. I feel like that might be a thing to consider; if the vampire is strong enough it's going to take more than a bucket of water to phase him / her. So for most vampires stepping in a puddle or rain runoff on the side of a street isn't going to be a problem. Beside most are going to be wearing boots anyway so it's not physically touching them lol.
That being said feel free to have the weak vampire spawn make perception checks to see the puddle they are all about to step into; cue the wicked witch of the west melting scene.
Let's say that I am DMing a campaign in which there is a vampire.
I would allow a History check to make the player know about the vampire's weaknesses.
What DC would set? Should be high, but not too high...17?
I'd make it DC 20 to learn all of its weaknesses. Figure the character will probably have a proficiency bonus of +4 by that point, and likely either a +3 or +4 for their INT mod as well. With a +7 bonus, they would need to roll a 13 or higher (40% chance of success). With a +8 bonus, they would need 12 or higher (45% chance of success). If they get advantage to their roll, those chances increase to 64% and 69.75%, respectively.
That being said, I'd also make it an Intelligence (Religion) check instead of an Intelligence (History) check to parallel how older editions used Knowledge (Religion) to identify things about undead creatures. You are free to say whatever skill you believe applies, however. Perhaps the area was ravaged by vampires in the past and therefore studying past events can lead to knowledge about how to stop them, for example.
If you think those chances are too low, adjust the DC downwards. If you think those chances are too high, adjust upwards. DC 17 would be 55/60% success without advantage or 79.75/84% with advantage for a +7/+8 modifier on the roll.
Let's say that I am DMing a campaign in which there is a vampire.
I would allow a History check to make the player know about the vampire's weaknesses.
What DC would set? Should be high, but not too high...17?
One of the things I like to do for rolls like this is have degrees of success vs a single success/fail break point.
You use what would be the break point for full/accurate information, and then start stepping down from there, revealing less and less until it really is all rumor.
DC 17: Know everything about the vampire's weaknesses.
DC 15: Know the high level details but not the specifics (as an example from this thread - that running water is bad for them, but not how much).
DC 12: They don't like garlic and can be killed by being stabbed in the heart with a wooden stake or having their head cut off.
DC 10: Magical weapons hurt them more.
etc.
That way there's a better chance to give out some information vs. none but you don't have to trivialize the roll.
Let's say that I am DMing a campaign in which there is a vampire.
I would allow a History check to make the player know about the vampire's weaknesses.
What DC would set? Should be high, but not too high...17?
One of the things I like to do for rolls like this is have degrees of success vs a single success/fail break point.
You use what would be the break point for full/accurate information, and then start stepping down from there, revealing less and less until it really is all rumor.
DC 17: Know everything about the vampire's weaknesses.
DC 15: Know the high level details but not the specifics (as an example from this thread - that running water is bad for them, but not how much).
DC 12: They don't like garlic and can be killed by being stabbed in the heart with a wooden stake or having their head cut off.
DC 10: Magical weapons hurt them more.
etc.
That way there's a better chance to give out some information vs. none but you don't have to trivialize the roll.
That's a good table. But for the vampire's weaknesses I would set the DC to 20 as @skizzerz suggested. Just to add more challenge, after all the charcters have a proficiency of +4 or +5 by the time they meet a vampire.
I'm good with that as a DC 20. The table was just me riffing off the top of my head. The numbers are very fungible and should focus more on the game style itself that they are running and DC's that the DM typically sets.
Let's say that I am DMing a campaign in which there is a vampire.
I would allow a History check to make the player know about the vampire's weaknesses.
What DC would set? Should be high, but not too high...17?
How common are vampires? How much influence do they have in the world?
For example: In Ravenloft, I'd argue that Strahd has done everything in his power (which is obviously a quite considerable amount) to make sure that vampire weakness is not common knowledge. I'd think he's done everything to instill the idea that he is an all-powerful invincible force that has no weaknesses. Also, villains often sow false myths, so that any potential enemies don't know of their true powers.
If vampires are common enough in your world that someone might have heard about them, then sure let them try for a History or Religion check, but don't give away all their weaknesses.
I think the best way to do it would be to provide them encounters that could showcase some of the weaknesses before they fight the vampire and let their characters find out that way:
Perhaps at a lower level they are being chased by a slew of vampire spawns, but when they go inside the house the vampires stop following them. Or have the encounter take place next to a river and when the PCs move closer to the river, the vampire/spawn keeps their distance. Or if an attack/spell places them near the river, they take the Dash action and their movement (wilfully taking attacks of opportunity) to get away from it. Have an encounter happen just before dawn and have the vampires attempt to flee a fight they would seemingly win as they realize the sun is rising soon. Obviously, anytime they attack a target and it takes less damage from the attack and/or heals the damage they will learn about its resistances and regeneration.
Then, after they see the event, allow them to make a low-to-moderate check to see if they fully understand what happened. "You recall hearing a rumor before about some undead forces avoiding rivers/sunlight."
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I don't see how any water whatsoever would ever harm a vampire unless its blessed or holy water. I've never seen any lore about running water that hinders or hurts vampires in all the sources and research I've done. No where in lore or stories (besides in D&D) does water hurt or harm vampires. I think this rule should be tossed out, whole and complete, baby with the bathwater. Its completely stupid.
I don't see how any water whatsoever would ever harm a vampire unless its blessed or holy water. I've never seen any lore about running water that hinders or hurts vampires in all the sources and research I've done. No where in lore or stories (besides in D&D) does water hurt or harm vampires. I think this rule should be tossed out, whole and complete, baby with the bathwater. Its completely stupid.
Not sure why you would bump this thread after five years just to reject the rule? The Rules & Game Mechanics forum is really for discussing what the rules are, not what you'd prefer them to be (that's what the Homebrew & House Rules section is for). A DM is always free to house-rule, but the game is clear that vampires in D&D are meant to be weakened by running water.
Running water as a weakness of vampires is common in vampire mythos, in european folklore running water is seen as a barrier to the unholy, because running water is "pure" (or at least more likely to be) while vampires are not. If you want to rule on that basis then you could argue that if the water is unclean then it presents no barrier. So a castle moat wouldn't be suitable as the water is usually stagnant, if you want your vampire army to cross a river, they could fill it with corpses upstream to render the crossing impure enough to no longer be harmful and so-on.
In game terms the running water is only a problem for a vampire if they remain within it; if they can cross it in a turn then they are unharmed and unhindered by it. Really it's just there as a weakness like daylight which can be exploited by knowledgeable adventurers in order to change their odds in battle, if you can flood a room for example, then it may count as running water for long enough to stop the vampire from shape-changing or regenerating etc., both powerful abilities that can make a vampire a difficult enemy to kill otherwise.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
So. Vampires are essentially killed by being trapped in running water, but what counts are running water? Does the sea, or an ocean? If you put a vampire in a tunnel and drop a flood into the tunnel, does that kill it?
I'm also interested in this:
Misty Escape. When it drops to 0 hit points outside its resting place, the vampire transforms into a cloud of mist (as in the Shapechanger trait) instead offal lin g unconscious, provided that it isn't in sun light or running water. If it can't transform, it is destroyed.
Shapechanger. If the vampire isn't in sun light or running water, it can use its action to polymorph into a Tiny bat or a Medium cloud of mist, or back into its true form... it can't pass through water.
Does that mean that if a sea is dropped on it and deals enough force damage to bring it to 0 HP, but we assume it's not flowing and can't permakill it, it turns into mist but then can't move? Like, it's just stuck at the bottom of the sea until the sea evaporates?
I am pretty sure that the intention of the rule is natural running water or a large man made water course such as a canal.
I think that even at the bottom of the sea the water is never still, so it couts as running water.
Regardless, here running water is inteded "natural water", not strictly a river. So yeah, a vampire dropped in the sea is good and dead.
That's understood, but how long does a canal have to flow before it counts? If water is running down a tunnel, it's potentially a canal until it runs out - in the same way a canal is a canal until it runs dry. It's just a time difference.
When playing with a DM who screws you at every opportunity, however, it's best to try and get a handle on what the default response is, so you know what to expect as the outcome of your actions.
Agreed. While the DM should be running all hostile forces in the game as competently as possible, there should never be a "Screw the player(s)!" focus. Period.
That's not what social gaming is about. Never has been.
Challenge them? Sometimes intensely? Absolutely! Screw them? Never.
This whole topic reminds me of that episode of Jackie Chan Adventures where the chi vampire can't cross the bridge over the river until he gets strong enough. I feel like that might be a thing to consider; if the vampire is strong enough it's going to take more than a bucket of water to phase him / her. So for most vampires stepping in a puddle or rain runoff on the side of a street isn't going to be a problem. Beside most are going to be wearing boots anyway so it's not physically touching them lol.
That being said feel free to have the weak vampire spawn make perception checks to see the puddle they are all about to step into; cue the wicked witch of the west melting scene.
Let's say that I am DMing a campaign in which there is a vampire.
I would allow a History check to make the player know about the vampire's weaknesses.
What DC would set? Should be high, but not too high...17?
I'm good with that as a DC 20. The table was just me riffing off the top of my head. The numbers are very fungible and should focus more on the game style itself that they are running and DC's that the DM typically sets.
For example: In Ravenloft, I'd argue that Strahd has done everything in his power (which is obviously a quite considerable amount) to make sure that vampire weakness is not common knowledge. I'd think he's done everything to instill the idea that he is an all-powerful invincible force that has no weaknesses. Also, villains often sow false myths, so that any potential enemies don't know of their true powers.
If vampires are common enough in your world that someone might have heard about them, then sure let them try for a History or Religion check, but don't give away all their weaknesses.
I think the best way to do it would be to provide them encounters that could showcase some of the weaknesses before they fight the vampire and let their characters find out that way:
Perhaps at a lower level they are being chased by a slew of vampire spawns, but when they go inside the house the vampires stop following them. Or have the encounter take place next to a river and when the PCs move closer to the river, the vampire/spawn keeps their distance. Or if an attack/spell places them near the river, they take the Dash action and their movement (wilfully taking attacks of opportunity) to get away from it. Have an encounter happen just before dawn and have the vampires attempt to flee a fight they would seemingly win as they realize the sun is rising soon. Obviously, anytime they attack a target and it takes less damage from the attack and/or heals the damage they will learn about its resistances and regeneration.
Then, after they see the event, allow them to make a low-to-moderate check to see if they fully understand what happened. "You recall hearing a rumor before about some undead forces avoiding rivers/sunlight."
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I don't see how any water whatsoever would ever harm a vampire unless its blessed or holy water. I've never seen any lore about running water that hinders or hurts vampires in all the sources and research I've done. No where in lore or stories (besides in D&D) does water hurt or harm vampires. I think this rule should be tossed out, whole and complete, baby with the bathwater. Its completely stupid.
Not sure why you would bump this thread after five years just to reject the rule? The Rules & Game Mechanics forum is really for discussing what the rules are, not what you'd prefer them to be (that's what the Homebrew & House Rules section is for). A DM is always free to house-rule, but the game is clear that vampires in D&D are meant to be weakened by running water.
Running water as a weakness of vampires is common in vampire mythos, in european folklore running water is seen as a barrier to the unholy, because running water is "pure" (or at least more likely to be) while vampires are not. If you want to rule on that basis then you could argue that if the water is unclean then it presents no barrier. So a castle moat wouldn't be suitable as the water is usually stagnant, if you want your vampire army to cross a river, they could fill it with corpses upstream to render the crossing impure enough to no longer be harmful and so-on.
In game terms the running water is only a problem for a vampire if they remain within it; if they can cross it in a turn then they are unharmed and unhindered by it. Really it's just there as a weakness like daylight which can be exploited by knowledgeable adventurers in order to change their odds in battle, if you can flood a room for example, then it may count as running water for long enough to stop the vampire from shape-changing or regenerating etc., both powerful abilities that can make a vampire a difficult enemy to kill otherwise.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
That guy cast create undead at 9th level, and then did it again at 8th just to make sure the job was done.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
If you push a vampire through a still lake, it's also running water.