I am assuming without the use of TCoE, Monk optional class feature. For the sake of this Question lets just assume a Dagger as I find its use for melee and range ability would be helpful.
EDIT: This is for a Monk Way of the Shadow/ Rogue Soulknife build.
From what I see the monk weapon selections says it has to be:
Be a simple weapon (i.e. not martial)
Is not a two-handed weapon
Is not considered a heavy weapon
Monk Weapons also gain certain benefits:
Use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls
Benefit from Martial Arts Die (See the Calculating Damage section of this article.)
Still allow you to make one extra unarmed attack as a bonus action with Martial Arts feature.
From the Rogues Psychic Blades I see:
Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage.
After you attack with the blade, you can make a melee or ranged weapon attack with a second psychic blade as a bonus action on the same turn, provided your other hand is free to create it. The damage die of this bonus attack is 1d4, instead of 1d6.
\Secondary Question, so there is no restriction on the SoulKnifes description of the damage used if say at Higher levels I wish to use the higher die roll from martial Arts over the Soulknifes d6?
Yes, but it is a weird synergy. You can already use Dexterity instead of Strength for Psychic Blades attacks as they have the finesse property. You also can only make one per Attack action, so you would not gain the benefit of the Extra Attacks monk feature with them. But it would boost the damage of both the main attack and bonus action attack (I think).
Thas fine. I am needing the soulknife for my sneak attack, I can use unarmed after that. Additionally I have the option to use it ranged as well.
Edit: Plus I could forgo the bonus action attack of Psychic Blade and instead introduce flurry of blows to follow up my back stab (sneak attack) with 2 unarmed strikes, since the blade disappears on attack I always have a free hand except for that initial strike leaving my reaction options available.
Speaking of the Monks extra attack at level 5, I assume I can start with my psychic blade, sneak attack, followed up my a normal unarmed attack then choose which bonus action option I want (i.e psychic action bonus attack, Flurry of Blows, etc)
These features work quite well together. The Psychic Blades are Simple Weapons and can benefit from the Martial Arts damage dice. They are actually even better than a Handaxe or Light Hammer because they provide their own Bonus Action attack instead of using Two Weapon Fighting and get your ability modifier to damage.
As for Extra Attack the Psychic Blades feature states: "Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade". So when you take the Attack action the psychic blade manifests in a free hand and you can attack with it. Psychic Blades goes on to say: "The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage", so I agree with Houligan that RAW you cannot use the psychic blade to make any other attacks during the Attack action. However this limitation is easy to work around by holding a Dagger or Quarterstaff in one hand and using that for your second attack. A dagger has finesse and gets you an additional chance to land Sneak Attack, where as the quarterstaff lets you do d8 damage early on (the psychic blade vanished and freed up your other hand after all).
Also your psychic blades, and a dagger if you choose to use it, have the advantage of being thrown weapons so you don't need to be in the front lines to do damage and flying enemies are less of a pain.
Well stated thank you. I assume my assumption about using unarmed combat as that second attack would also be viable, just not acceptable for a second sneak attack? though obviously using the real dagger as the second attack would probably net you more damage with the addition of sneak attack.
Edit: Scratch that. Sneak attack is only viable once per turn regardless of number of attacks.
Remember you only get one sneak attack per turn. Though having a physical weapon would allow you to sneak attack on an opportunity attack (or other reaction) during another creature's turn as well.
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Well stated thank you. I assume my assumption about using unarmed combat as that second attack would also be viable, just not acceptable for a second sneak attack? though obviously using the real dagger as the second attack would probably net you more damage with the addition of sneak attack.
Edit: Scratch that. Sneak attack is only viable once per turn regardless of number of attacks.
Yup, but having more attacks that can proc Sneak Attack in a turn means you are less likely to miss out on that damage entirely. If you have a 60% chance to hit per attack then you have a 60% chance of landing Sneak Attack with one attack, 84% chance with two attacks, and a 93.6% chance with three attacks.
One thing to be aware of is that even though Martial Arts lets you use Dexterity when attacking with your Unarmed Strikes or Monk Weapons it is not considered as having the Finesse property. This is why the dagger can help ensure sneak attack gets procced but a quarterstaff or unarmed strike cannot.
Finally, if you have a way to attack with your reaction on a different turn, like with an Opportunity Attack or a Battlemaster ally using Commander's Strike on you, then you can proc Sneak Attack again because it is limited to once per turn, and not once per round.
After you attack with the blade, you can make a melee or ranged weapon attack with a second psychic blade as a bonus action on the same turn, provided your other hand is free to create it. The damage die of this bonus attack is 1d4, instead of 1d6.
With the second part to psychic blades would you be restricted to the 1d4? As they are monk weapons you can use your martial art dice instead of the weapons damage dice.
So levels as a monk (11) and rogue (3).
Would you get psychic blade one (1d6) using martial art dice as it satisfies requirements for a monk weapon. As such could roll 1d8 instead.
Now the second attack says use 1d4 for this attack and not the 1d6. This second attack is a weapon that still meant monk weapon requirements, so could you roll a 1d8 instead of the 1d4?
Yes, both are Simple Weapons and as such qualify as Monk Weapons and there damage dice increase with Monk levels, just as a Shortsword or dagger would.
That being said, attacking with your 1d4 Psychic Blade uses your bonus action. With 11 levels in Monk you are better served using your bonus action to Flurry of Blows.
Yes, both are Simple Weapons and as such qualify as Monk Weapons and there damage dice increase with Monk levels, just as a Shortsword or dagger would.
That being said, attacking with your 1d4 Psychic Blade uses your bonus action. With 11 levels in Monk you are better served using your bonus action to Flurry of Blows.
Very true although was thinking on a rare occasion where want to maintain range or potentially kill the initial target and cannot get into melee range of the next.
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I am assuming without the use of TCoE, Monk optional class feature. For the sake of this Question lets just assume a Dagger as I find its use for melee and range ability would be helpful.
EDIT: This is for a Monk Way of the Shadow/ Rogue Soulknife build.
From what I see the monk weapon selections says it has to be:
Monk Weapons also gain certain benefits:
From the Rogues Psychic Blades I see:
Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage.
After you attack with the blade, you can make a melee or ranged weapon attack with a second psychic blade as a bonus action on the same turn, provided your other hand is free to create it. The damage die of this bonus attack is 1d4, instead of 1d6.
Yes, a Soulknife's Psychic Blades count as Monk weapons.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Woohoo!
\Secondary Question, so there is no restriction on the SoulKnifes description of the damage used if say at Higher levels I wish to use the higher die roll from martial Arts over the Soulknifes d6?
Yes, but it is a weird synergy. You can already use Dexterity instead of Strength for Psychic Blades attacks as they have the finesse property. You also can only make one per Attack action, so you would not gain the benefit of the Extra Attacks monk feature with them. But it would boost the damage of both the main attack and bonus action attack (I think).
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Thas fine. I am needing the soulknife for my sneak attack, I can use unarmed after that. Additionally I have the option to use it ranged as well.
Edit: Plus I could forgo the bonus action attack of Psychic Blade and instead introduce flurry of blows to follow up my back stab (sneak attack) with 2 unarmed strikes, since the blade disappears on attack I always have a free hand except for that initial strike leaving my reaction options available.
Speaking of the Monks extra attack at level 5, I assume I can start with my psychic blade, sneak attack, followed up my a normal unarmed attack then choose which bonus action option I want (i.e psychic action bonus attack, Flurry of Blows, etc)
These features work quite well together. The Psychic Blades are Simple Weapons and can benefit from the Martial Arts damage dice. They are actually even better than a Handaxe or Light Hammer because they provide their own Bonus Action attack instead of using Two Weapon Fighting and get your ability modifier to damage.
As for Extra Attack the Psychic Blades feature states: "Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade". So when you take the Attack action the psychic blade manifests in a free hand and you can attack with it. Psychic Blades goes on to say: "The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage", so I agree with Houligan that RAW you cannot use the psychic blade to make any other attacks during the Attack action. However this limitation is easy to work around by holding a Dagger or Quarterstaff in one hand and using that for your second attack. A dagger has finesse and gets you an additional chance to land Sneak Attack, where as the quarterstaff lets you do d8 damage early on (the psychic blade vanished and freed up your other hand after all).
Also your psychic blades, and a dagger if you choose to use it, have the advantage of being thrown weapons so you don't need to be in the front lines to do damage and flying enemies are less of a pain.
Well stated thank you. I assume my assumption about using unarmed combat as that second attack would also be viable, just not acceptable for a second sneak attack? though obviously using the real dagger as the second attack would probably net you more damage with the addition of sneak attack.
Edit: Scratch that. Sneak attack is only viable once per turn regardless of number of attacks.
Remember you only get one sneak attack per turn. Though having a physical weapon would allow you to sneak attack on an opportunity attack (or other reaction) during another creature's turn as well.
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Yup, but having more attacks that can proc Sneak Attack in a turn means you are less likely to miss out on that damage entirely. If you have a 60% chance to hit per attack then you have a 60% chance of landing Sneak Attack with one attack, 84% chance with two attacks, and a 93.6% chance with three attacks.
One thing to be aware of is that even though Martial Arts lets you use Dexterity when attacking with your Unarmed Strikes or Monk Weapons it is not considered as having the Finesse property. This is why the dagger can help ensure sneak attack gets procced but a quarterstaff or unarmed strike cannot.
Finally, if you have a way to attack with your reaction on a different turn, like with an Opportunity Attack or a Battlemaster ally using Commander's Strike on you, then you can proc Sneak Attack again because it is limited to once per turn, and not once per round.
With the second part to psychic blades would you be restricted to the 1d4? As they are monk weapons you can use your martial art dice instead of the weapons damage dice.
So levels as a monk (11) and rogue (3).
Would you get psychic blade one (1d6) using martial art dice as it satisfies requirements for a monk weapon. As such could roll 1d8 instead.
Now the second attack says use 1d4 for this attack and not the 1d6. This second attack is a weapon that still meant monk weapon requirements, so could you roll a 1d8 instead of the 1d4?
Yes, both are Simple Weapons and as such qualify as Monk Weapons and there damage dice increase with Monk levels, just as a Shortsword or dagger would.
That being said, attacking with your 1d4 Psychic Blade uses your bonus action. With 11 levels in Monk you are better served using your bonus action to Flurry of Blows.
Very true although was thinking on a rare occasion where want to maintain range or potentially kill the initial target and cannot get into melee range of the next.