me and some other DM's are in discussion for a rouge build and we are hopefull to clear it hear.
If the rouge get level 13 with the archetyp scout he gets the feat "ambush master".
So if the rouge does a surprise attack, we are not in the official fight. So the official fight starts after this attack, because the enemy now knows, he's under attack.
Now the feat "ambush master" says, the rouge does the first attack in this figth. After this the normal round begins and the initative says who is on which position in this round. Does it means, the rouge has the chance if he has a good initative roll he could strike third time?
Or does it mean, the first round of the fight he beginns and at the start of the second round the initative counts?
So if the rouge does a surprise attack, we are not in the official fight. So the official fight starts after this attack, because the enemy now knows, he's under attack.
Now the feat "ambush master" says, the rouge does the first attack in this figth.
No it doesn't. It says this;
Ambush Master
Starting at 13th level, you excel at leading ambushes and acting first in a fight.
You have advantage on initiative rolls. In addition, the first creature you hit during the first round of a combat becomes easier for you and others to strike; attack rolls against that target have advantage until the start of your next turn.
This does two things, advantage on initiative rolls and an extra effect on the first target you hit, nothing more. There are no extra attack or extra rounds or anything like that, it just does the two things it says it does.
After this the normal round begins and the initative says who is on which position in this round. Does it means, the rouge has the chance if he has a good initative roll he could strike third time?
Again No. Initiative and turn order was always there and the rogue takes his turn in whatever order his initiative roll put him. So on the first round he does his first attack.
There is no "rouge" class in D&D though I think you are talking about the ROGUE class as the scout is a subclass of rogue :-)
While some people home brew otherwise the "official fight" starts before any attack has been made
In this case combat starts when the player says "I attack the enemy" before the attacks are rolled:
Determine surprise. The DM determines whether anyone involved in the combat encounter is surprised.
Establish positions. The DM decides where all the characters and monsters are located. Given the adventurers’ marching order or their stated positions in the room or other location, the DM figures out where the adversaries are — how far away and in what direction.
Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls initiative, determining the order of combatants’ turns.
Take turns. Each participant in the battle takes a turn in initiative order.
Begin the next round. When everyone involved in the combat has had a turn, the round ends. Repeat step 4 until the fighting stops.
1 The enemy probably is surprised the rest of the party may well be as well
4. Anyone who goes before the Rogue in initiave order take their turn, if they are surprised they do nothing, anyone who isn't surprised essentially sees the rogue go for their weapon and beats them to it.
Ambush master does not say they get the first attack it says " In addition, the first creature you hit during the first round of a combat becomes easier for you and others to strike; attack rolls against that target have advantage until the start of your next turn." so if the rogue hits an enemy in the first round (which is his first attack) then all future attacks agiast that enemy are at advantage until the start of the rogues next turn.
It sounds like you might have just gotten a bit confused by the subclass feature text and by surprise attack rules. "You excel at leading ambushes and acting first in a fight," is basically flavor text describing why, in-universe, you get the benefits thereafter described.
As for surprise, the way that it works is that each individual character or NPC in a fight may or may not be surprised in the first round, depending on their own awareness. There may be some people who are surprised--and thus open to a "surprise attack"--and those who are not surprised. To take from the text in Basic Rules for Surprise:
"If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't."
To put it another way, there's no "before combat" attack that takes place, because surprise is not a package deal for any given group in a combat. If a "surprise attack round" existed, any character that isn't surprised would be existing in a weird sort of rules limbo of being both in combat and out of combat at the same time.
The good news here is that you don't even need an enemy to be surprised for Ambush Master to work. It's less surprising people entirely and more catching an enemy off-guard with your sheer speed when a fight starts, you might say.
Where surprise can get confusing is a lot of you tube / twitch games home rule things a little different but then it can get confusing looking at the rules.
If a player decides to make an attack when noone else is expecting it everyone except the character making the inital attack is surprised. RAW you roll initiative but in the first round only the attacker does anything on their turn and after that turns go in normal initiative order and noone is surprised any longer. A lot of content makers (and other players) roll and apply the effects of the initial attack and then roll initiative (with no-one surprised). On the surface this is the same as RAW.
In reality there is a slight difference because the initiave order affects whether anyone can use there reaction in response to the initial attack. Surprised characters can not make a reaction until the end of THEIR first turn but can after that. For example if the rogue rolled lower than his target in initiative when he makes the initial attack the target might be able to cast "shield" to avoid it but if the rogue rolled higher on initiative the target can not make a rection to the attack.
Hi all,
me and some other DM's are in discussion for a rouge build and we are hopefull to clear it hear.
If the rouge get level 13 with the archetyp scout he gets the feat "ambush master".
So if the rouge does a surprise attack, we are not in the official fight. So the official fight starts after this attack, because the enemy now knows, he's under attack.
Now the feat "ambush master" says, the rouge does the first attack in this figth. After this the normal round begins and the initative says who is on which position in this round. Does it means, the rouge has the chance if he has a good initative roll he could strike third time?
Or does it mean, the first round of the fight he beginns and at the start of the second round the initative counts?
You are though. Initiative count and rounds are there from the start, Surprise just affects what you can do on your turn.
No it doesn't. It says this;
This does two things, advantage on initiative rolls and an extra effect on the first target you hit, nothing more. There are no extra attack or extra rounds or anything like that, it just does the two things it says it does.
Again No. Initiative and turn order was always there and the rogue takes his turn in whatever order his initiative roll put him. So on the first round he does his first attack.
There is no "rouge" class in D&D though I think you are talking about the ROGUE class as the scout is a subclass of rogue :-)
While some people home brew otherwise the "official fight" starts before any attack has been made
In this case combat starts when the player says "I attack the enemy" before the attacks are rolled:
1 The enemy probably is surprised the rest of the party may well be as well
4. Anyone who goes before the Rogue in initiave order take their turn, if they are surprised they do nothing, anyone who isn't surprised essentially sees the rogue go for their weapon and beats them to it.
Ambush master does not say they get the first attack it says " In addition, the first creature you hit during the first round of a combat becomes easier for you and others to strike; attack rolls against that target have advantage until the start of your next turn." so if the rogue hits an enemy in the first round (which is his first attack) then all future attacks agiast that enemy are at advantage until the start of the rogues next turn.
It sounds like you might have just gotten a bit confused by the subclass feature text and by surprise attack rules. "You excel at leading ambushes and acting first in a fight," is basically flavor text describing why, in-universe, you get the benefits thereafter described.
As for surprise, the way that it works is that each individual character or NPC in a fight may or may not be surprised in the first round, depending on their own awareness. There may be some people who are surprised--and thus open to a "surprise attack"--and those who are not surprised. To take from the text in Basic Rules for Surprise:
"If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't."
To put it another way, there's no "before combat" attack that takes place, because surprise is not a package deal for any given group in a combat. If a "surprise attack round" existed, any character that isn't surprised would be existing in a weird sort of rules limbo of being both in combat and out of combat at the same time.
The good news here is that you don't even need an enemy to be surprised for Ambush Master to work. It's less surprising people entirely and more catching an enemy off-guard with your sheer speed when a fight starts, you might say.
Where surprise can get confusing is a lot of you tube / twitch games home rule things a little different but then it can get confusing looking at the rules.
If a player decides to make an attack when noone else is expecting it everyone except the character making the inital attack is surprised. RAW you roll initiative but in the first round only the attacker does anything on their turn and after that turns go in normal initiative order and noone is surprised any longer. A lot of content makers (and other players) roll and apply the effects of the initial attack and then roll initiative (with no-one surprised). On the surface this is the same as RAW.
In reality there is a slight difference because the initiave order affects whether anyone can use there reaction in response to the initial attack. Surprised characters can not make a reaction until the end of THEIR first turn but can after that. For example if the rogue rolled lower than his target in initiative when he makes the initial attack the target might be able to cast "shield" to avoid it but if the rogue rolled higher on initiative the target can not make a rection to the attack.
Also some features and items can affect what/ how much you can do.