Hi! So after a while I finally got to play my ranged gloom stalker ranger, but the problem is that once I tried him out the only thing that would confuse me and my DM would be the Umbral Sight mechanic where you are invisible in darkness for any creature that relays on darkvision to see in darkness. Rather my question is, does it work like greater invisibility spell but without duration? Or is it like normal invisible condition that once you shoot someone with an arrow then you reveal yourself and you no longer have advantages on your attacks and enemies can hit you normally? Generally I'd believe that it works like greater invisibility which makes the class ranger playable on a whole another level (as long as you fight in the dark) but because being invisible permanently in darkness against creatures who don't have blindsight or truesight sounds really op. Since I'm kinda lost how it properly works with the invisible coniditon.
Umbral Sight says "While in darkness, you are invisible to any creature that relies on darkvision to see you in that darkness." You don't actually become invisible, basically what it means is that Darkvision doesn't allow someone to see you when you're in darkness. Once you enter dim or normal light, they can see you just fine. If they can perceive you in darkness by some other ability, that ability is not hampered in any way by Umbral Sight.
As others have said, Umbral Sight just means you are invisible to darkvision while in darkness.
This means 1: you can Hide at any time. 2: attacks from creatures with only darkvision have disadvantage while you are not hidden, and miss if you are. 3: your attacks against creatures with just darkvision have advantage.
If you attack while hidden, you stop being hidden until you successfully Hide again.
Gamewise you are invisible and if a game element specifically interact with things invisible, it will affect an invisible creature from Umbral Sight, such as See Invibility, Feral Senses or The Third Eye.
*not actually invisible, but treated as such, which is functionally the same.
You are invisible to creature with darkvision. You have the invisible condition actually. You're not treated as such while not actually invisible...text literally says you are invisible so you are.
Its a weird situation because they basically say you are invisible without actually being invisible. Also creatures with Devil Sight would be able to see you since its not Darkvision I believe?
Its a weird situation because they basically say you are invisible without actually being invisible. Also creatures with Devil Sight would be able to see you since its not Darkvision I believe?
Overall the natural language system at it again!
You are invisible! Simply you are to some creatures under certain circumstances. They opted with invisible against Darkvision as creatures with normal vision in darkness are effectively blinded, which would have been wonky to reconcile with Umbral Sight.
It would still be invisible to Devil Sight if the Warlock has Darkvision though.
Its a weird situation because they basically say you are invisible without actually being invisible. Also creatures with Devil Sight would be able to see you since its not Darkvision I believe?
Overall the natural language system at it again!
You are invisible! Simply you are to some creatures under certain circumstances. They opted with invisible against Darkvision as creatures with normal vision in darkness are effectively blinded, which would have been wonky to reconcile with Umbral Sight.
It would still be invisible to Devil Sight if the Warlock has Darkvision though.
Since the Devilsight replaces the Darkvision wouldn't that technically not be true though?
Natrual Language rules would state that only creatures with Darkvision would not be able to see....since the Warlock has Devilsight which is a different named ability they would be visible?
I am 100% on that for sure but its this whole natural language thing that causes this....Like a Human Devilsight Warlock could see them but a Goblin Devilsight Warlock could not?
Its a weird situation because they basically say you are invisible without actually being invisible. Also creatures with Devil Sight would be able to see you since its not Darkvision I believe?
Overall the natural language system at it again!
You are invisible! Simply you are to some creatures under certain circumstances. They opted with invisible against Darkvision as creatures with normal vision in darkness are effectively blinded, which would have been wonky to reconcile with Umbral Sight.
It would still be invisible to Devil Sight if the Warlock has Darkvision though.
Umbra sight says “While in darkness, you are invisible to any creature that relies on darkvision to see you in that darkness.”
If they are not relying on darkvision to see you in that darkness and instead using Devils Sight they can see you.
Since the Devilsight replaces the Darkvision wouldn't that technically not be true though?
Natrual Language rules would state that only creatures with Darkvision would not be able to see....since the Warlock has Devilsight which is a different named ability they would be visible?
I am 100% on that for sure but its this whole natural language thing that causes this....Like a Human Devilsight Warlock could see them but a Goblin Devilsight Warlock could not?
While i don't think one can turn off Darkvison, I suppose one doesn't rely on it when activating Devil Sight, which is the exact wording used in Umbrage Sight.
Yeah its weird I agree though....overall thats the price you pay for the natural language system is you have a lot of half-measures that rely on you to navigate as a DM.
Generally its fine but it can create these weird edge cases...
Overall I feel like the natural language system needs to go away in the next edition but I think I might be in the minority on that one.
I'm curious what the unnatural language system would be. Everything defined in mathematics? No matter what you do unless you want to spend ten words for each term you're going to haver confusion.
I'm curious what the unnatural language system would be. Everything defined in mathematics? No matter what you do unless you want to spend ten words for each term you're going to haver confusion.
It would be PF2e Pretty much...you use a tag based system that applies to every ability/spell so when you call something out it refers to that tag you can reference.
It sounds complicated but in reality with a free online database of all the rules it is incredibly simple to look things up and apply the rules.
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Hi! So after a while I finally got to play my ranged gloom stalker ranger, but the problem is that once I tried him out the only thing that would confuse me and my DM would be the Umbral Sight mechanic where you are invisible in darkness for any creature that relays on darkvision to see in darkness. Rather my question is, does it work like greater invisibility spell but without duration? Or is it like normal invisible condition that once you shoot someone with an arrow then you reveal yourself and you no longer have advantages on your attacks and enemies can hit you normally? Generally I'd believe that it works like greater invisibility which makes the class ranger playable on a whole another level (as long as you fight in the dark) but because being invisible permanently in darkness against creatures who don't have blindsight or truesight sounds really op. Since I'm kinda lost how it properly works with the invisible coniditon.
My thanks in advance for reading/replaying.
Umbral Sight has nothing to do with the invisibility spell. It makes you invisible to creature with darkvision. See the condition Invisible.
Umbral Sight says "While in darkness, you are invisible to any creature that relies on darkvision to see you in that darkness." You don't actually become invisible, basically what it means is that Darkvision doesn't allow someone to see you when you're in darkness. Once you enter dim or normal light, they can see you just fine. If they can perceive you in darkness by some other ability, that ability is not hampered in any way by Umbral Sight.
As others have said, Umbral Sight just means you are invisible to darkvision while in darkness.
This means 1: you can Hide at any time. 2: attacks from creatures with only darkvision have disadvantage while you are not hidden, and miss if you are. 3: your attacks against creatures with just darkvision have advantage.
If you attack while hidden, you stop being hidden until you successfully Hide again.
So long as you remain in the dark, you get advantage on your attacks and impose disadvantage on theirs.
<Insert clever signature here>
Gamewise you are invisible and if a game element specifically interact with things invisible, it will affect an invisible creature from Umbral Sight, such as See Invibility, Feral Senses or The Third Eye.
Also what about the gear and equipment on my character?
What about it? If they can't see you, they can't see your stuff. Unless you're carrying around an active light source.
<Insert clever signature here>
As long as that's not a lit torch, it's all under the same effect, with you
You're invisible*. Your stuff is invisible*. You don't become visible when you attack only if you leave darkness.
*not actually invisible, but treated as such, which is functionally the same.
You are invisible to creature with darkvision. You have the invisible condition actually. You're not treated as such while not actually invisible...text literally says you are invisible so you are.
Its a weird situation because they basically say you are invisible without actually being invisible. Also creatures with Devil Sight would be able to see you since its not Darkvision I believe?
Overall the natural language system at it again!
Not sure why people have troubles with this. You are invisible, just with a bit more limitations on to whom.
Yep, different rule with different mechanics so Devil's Sight is not affected by Umbral Sight.
You are invisible! Simply you are to some creatures under certain circumstances. They opted with invisible against Darkvision as creatures with normal vision in darkness are effectively blinded, which would have been wonky to reconcile with Umbral Sight.
It would still be invisible to Devil Sight if the Warlock has Darkvision though.Since the Devilsight replaces the Darkvision wouldn't that technically not be true though?
Natrual Language rules would state that only creatures with Darkvision would not be able to see....since the Warlock has Devilsight which is a different named ability they would be visible?
I am 100% on that for sure but its this whole natural language thing that causes this....Like a Human Devilsight Warlock could see them but a Goblin Devilsight Warlock could not?
Umbra sight says “While in darkness, you are invisible to any creature that relies on darkvision to see you in that darkness.”
If they are not relying on darkvision to see you in that darkness and instead using Devils Sight they can see you.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
While i don't think one can turn off Darkvison, I suppose one doesn't rely on it when activating Devil Sight, which is the exact wording used in Umbrage Sight.
Yeah its weird I agree though....overall thats the price you pay for the natural language system is you have a lot of half-measures that rely on you to navigate as a DM.
Generally its fine but it can create these weird edge cases...
Overall I feel like the natural language system needs to go away in the next edition but I think I might be in the minority on that one.
I'm curious what the unnatural language system would be. Everything defined in mathematics? No matter what you do unless you want to spend ten words for each term you're going to haver confusion.
<Insert clever signature here>
It would be PF2e Pretty much...you use a tag based system that applies to every ability/spell so when you call something out it refers to that tag you can reference.
It sounds complicated but in reality with a free online database of all the rules it is incredibly simple to look things up and apply the rules.