Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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So, a player of mine wants to play a Bladesinger. Now, according to his calculations, that would give him a somewhat ridiculous amount of AC for a 2nd level character. The calculation, according to him is: 13 + 4 (Mage Armor) + 2 (racial bonus (HB)) + 4 (Bladesong) for a total of 23. 28, if you add a shield spell.
Pretty sure though the official PHB rules on AC state: "some spells and class features give you a different way to calculate your AC. If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use." Likewise Sage Advice states: "mage armor gives you a new way to calculate your AC (13 + your Dexterity modifier) and is therefore incompatible with any other feature that provides an AC calculation."
So, if I understood correctly and Mage Armor is indeed "incompatible with any other feature that provides an AC calculation", the actual calculation for his AC should be either: 10 + 4 (Dex) + 2 (racial bonus (HB)) + 4 (Bladesong), for a total of 20 without Mage Armor or 13 + 4 (Mage Armor), for a total of 17 with Mage Armor.
Based on RAW, neither the racial bonus, nor Bladesong should be applicable to a character with Mage Armor active, as they both fall under that category of "different ways to calculate AC", or am I overlooking something?
Bladesong does not offer a way to calculate AC, it just provides a bonus to it.
Care to go into more detail? Because as far as I'm concerned "number X + number Y = number Z" is "a way to calculate AC", at least in purely mathematical terms. I assume that's not what you mean, though?
Are you playing 2024 or 2014?
In 2024, an armor calculation is one that says "your base armor" in it, like mage armor. Note the phrasing "the target’s base AC becomes..." In 2014, these calculations are the things that say "your AC equals..."
Bonuses to your armor apply on top of that base calculation. This would apply to "You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1)" (assuming you are playing the Tasha's version of the blade singer).
I don't know what species you are referring to, so I don't know if it provides a bonus or a calculation, but I don't think any official races offer a bonus.
I also don't know what level you're playing at to have two 18's in stats, but you must be level 12+?
It simply states "You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1)". This does not specify anything else about your AC and therefore does not count as a full way to calculate. It is pretty much the same as using a shield.
Are you playing 2024 or 2014?
We're playing 2014.
I don't know what species you are referring to, so I don't know if it provides a bonus or a calculation, but I don't think any official races offer a bonus.
It's a homebrew take on the Warforged's +1 to AC due to Integrated Protection (just that this version of the Warforged can get an additional +1 due to some specialized build that gives you disadvantage in other things). In fact the whole confusion started because of an older article I read, which stated that the Warforged's Integrated Protection is NOT compatible with Mage Armor. So, if that's the case, neither should anything else that gives a +1 or anything like that. However, turns out those articles were actually referring to the original, outdated 2018 version of Integrated Protection.
I also don't know what level you're playing at to have two 18's in stats, but you must be level 12+?
As I originally mentioned, the player's level is 2. But again: homebrew. According to the book I bought, this is meant as a bit of a more heroic campaign, so the players are given a few additional hp and stat points (6 hp and 3 stat points in total), in exchange for staying low level for almost the entire campaign and very few rests in between. It theoretically should all balance itself out at the end, but yeah. It's more meant to buff some of the player's weaker stats, instead of making them completely broken.
Not sure what race was used, but to clarify how AC affecting features stack if you have two or more items, spells, or features that say something along the lines of “your AC=X” or “your AC=X+Y”, then you can only use 1 of them. Effects that simply say “add X to your AC” can stack with any such feature, as well as other instances of +X AC from a different source.
Yes, Bladesong and Mage Armor stack. Mage Armor sets your AC to a value, while Bladesong does not.
I agree that they stack, but to the OP, where are you getting a +4 for Mage Armor? It's only effectively a +3, or am I missing something?
I believe the +4 is dex.
It is indeed, yes.
The reason Integrated Protection is incompatible with Mage Armor is because you're still considered to be wearing the armor, and Mage Armor can't be used on a target that's wearing armor.
Bladesong works with either Mage Armor or Integrated Protection active. Basically, the way AC calculation works:
1. Check for any base AC settings. Standard is 10+Dex, armor offers a number that sometimes adds either all or some of your Dex, other abilities such as Unarmored Defense grant 10+Dex+another stat. The highest number wins, taking into consideration that some are incompatible (for instance, wearing armor means you can't use Unarmored Defense).
2. Check for any bonuses to AC. These don't say your AC is something, they say you get +X to your AC. Examples of this are: Wearing a shield (+2), Integrated Protection (+1 if wearing armor with this feature), Bladesong (+Int), +X Armor (+X).
Hope this helps.
I only have the 2024 PHB. What is Bladesong? What book is it? Is this an item or a spell or a class feat?
It's a feature from Bladesinging, a Wizard subclass that appears in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.
pronouns: he/she/they
Bladesong can only be active when not wearing armor, so I guess it is up to the DM to decide whether Mage Armor is considered actual armor. I had a similar talk with my DM and I came to the conclusion that Mage Armor is still technically armor so it doesn't go with Bladesong.
While you and your DM can rule it however you want at your table, the Mage Armor spell definitely does not count as "wearing armor" according to the actual rules.
If it were, the spell would have no actual effect as it is currently worded, since it says it ends early "if the target dons armor". If the spell itself counted as wearing armor, it would end immediately upon being cast, which obviously makes no sense.
Something to keep in mind about D&D rules in general is that the names of spells do not have any mechanical impact.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yeah; "wearing armor" means you're wearing something from the Armor section of the PHB or one of the magic items that's specifically tagged as armor.
As discussed in Confusion about "Armor" and "Weapons" in relation to Class Features or commented by Thezzaruz in another thread:
Athanar90 and the article Paefny references are incorrect.
The AC bonus from Integrated Protection is fully compatible with:
I can't speak to the wording of the homebrew race, but the Warforged's Integrated Protection gives a flat +1 bonus to AC without any conditions and then has two features that interact with worn armor. The fact that the other two features require worn armor has zero impact on the +1 AC.
Edited to Add: The rest of Athanar90's post is correct, but Integrated Protection is not armor and works fine with Mage Armor.
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My houserulings.
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