New DM here, running Lost Mine of Phandelver from the Starter Box. Next session, my party is going to have a run-in with some Giant Spider, and I want to make sure I understand the Poisoned and Paralyzed conditions. Mainly I'm looking to clarify what happens after combat. When the Giant Spider attacks with it's bite, a failed CON saving throw results in poison damage. If the poison brings the target to 0 HP, it is stable but poisoned for 1 hour even after regaining HP, and is also Paralyzed while the poison is active.
My question is, how can the group remove these conditions? From what I've looked at, the 2nd level cleric can't do anything about it with Cure Wounds or Healing Word, and a [magicitem]healing potion[/[magicitem] won't work either. It looks like the party would need access to a higher-level spell like Lesser Restoration or a magic item that specifically deals with poison (which they don't have). Just want to make sure I'm correct if they ask for clarification on what they can do. Basically, since they don't have any of those things mentioned above, they'll need to find a safe place after combat to wait out the effects.
If you're concerned and the players are determined to take on the spiders, you could have the druid cure them, if it goes a bit wrong? I'm certain that there would be some favour he would want from them for this. ;)
Hmm, multi-quote seems to not be working for me at the moment, even after a page refresh, and close/reopen.
Stormknight: Yeah, they're in Thundertree. They are getting close to level 3, but still need about 200 or so XP. I've got a party of six, so I'm hoping the extra attacks in the action economy make up for the lower level. We left off after meeting the druid, who told them he could lead them to Cragmaw Castle if they chase off the green dragon. They are hellbent on taking the straightest course to recover Gundren, with little interest in side quests. I blame video games ;) If they get into deep trouble, the Druid may pull them out, heal them, and send them on their way back to Phandalin with a warning not to comeback until they've gotten stronger.
Filcat: Yeah, no antitoxins in the group either. That list you provided only lists "antitoxin: 50gp," is there a list of antitoxins, or a description of features and limitations? Or is it up to DMs to determine their function? I couldn't find anything under the Equipment or Magic Item lists.
Filcat: Yeah, no antitoxins in the group either. That list you provided only lists "antitoxin: 50gp," is there a list of antitoxins, or a description of features and limitations? Or is it up to DMs to determine their function? I couldn't find anything under the Equipment or Magic Item lists.
I think it is quite generic:
Antitoxin. A creature that drinks this vial of liquid gains advantage on saving throws against poison for 1 hour. It confers no benefit to undead or constructs.
Antitoxin. A creature that drinks this vial of liquid gains advantage on saving throws against poison for 1 hour. It confers no benefit to undead or constructs.
edit: lol, damn, beaten by Filcat again. I'll go back to watch my steam client fail to load the Steam Summer sale... ;)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I don't know how relevant it is (it kind of depends on the party), but a Paladin can also neutralize poison with Lay on Hands, from the get go.
They will definitely wish they had a Paladin in the party. Not only can the spiders poison them, but there's also a green dragon in this area. They'll want LOTS of healing capabilities if they end up fighting it, that's for sure.
If they end up fighting the green dragon, then they should lose.
Just a single use of it's breath weapon can wipe out most parties of 2nd-3rd level with ease.
Agreed. I was just going over it's stat block. If they clear the village before going to the dragon, That will be enough to jump them up to level 3. I had been doing milestone XP after a quest or section, but given the nature of this encounter, I've been giving them XP right after combat. Even with six level 3 characters I'm not sure they'll survive. The campaign says they only have to bring him to half his total HP to drive him off, but you're right; one round of good rolls on my part or bad rolls on theirs and we're looking at a TPK.
Good point Stormnight. That green dragon is a young green dragon...CR 8.
The highest CR they've faced so far is a bugbear at CR 1. This should be a bit of a wake-up call for them lol.
Honestly, I'm really hoping they'll try to engage/persuade it in some way. I think that will be the most interesting route to RP, and pretty satisfying too. And, since they get the same XP whether they drive it off by force or persuasion, it'd be a win-win.
New DM here, running Lost Mine of Phandelver from the Starter Box. Next session, my party is going to have a run-in with some Giant Spider, and I want to make sure I understand the Poisoned and Paralyzed conditions. Mainly I'm looking to clarify what happens after combat. When the Giant Spider attacks with it's bite, a failed CON saving throw results in poison damage. If the poison brings the target to 0 HP, it is stable but poisoned for 1 hour even after regaining HP, and is also Paralyzed while the poison is active.
My question is, how can the group remove these conditions? From what I've looked at, the 2nd level cleric can't do anything about it with Cure Wounds or Healing Word, and a [magicitem]healing potion[/[magicitem] won't work either. It looks like the party would need access to a higher-level spell like Lesser Restoration or a magic item that specifically deals with poison (which they don't have). Just want to make sure I'm correct if they ask for clarification on what they can do. Basically, since they don't have any of those things mentioned above, they'll need to find a safe place after combat to wait out the effects.
With a poison, don't you get to make the CON save every round to see if it is cured? so say they fail the first one and become poisoned/paralyzed -- on their next turn would they not again make the CON save to drop the poison? (I thought this of every condition, but upon looking further I see no rule one way or the other)
Also the way I'm reading how the Giant Spider poison works is that you are only paralyzed if the poison drops you to 0 HP, in which case you are considered stable, but will remain poisoned and paralyzed for 1 hour -- during this hour you are paralyzed (while poisoned this way). I don't believe you are paralyzed if the poison takes effect, only once it drops you to 0 HP.
Here is the text from the attack: Bite.Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 11 Constitution saving throw, taking 9 (2d8) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. If the poison damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, the target is stable but poisoned for 1 hour, even after regaining hit points, and is paralyzed while poisoned in this way.
Spells and effects that have the victim repeat the saving throw explicitly mention it; there is no core rule about repeating saving throws.
For example, see the difference between the blindness caused by the Dust Mephit and a Solar (comparing imps to pit fiends here, but it works :p ).
...and while we're at the subject of Pit Fiends, check that one's poison too!
And yes, the way it reads, the victim of that poison is only paralyzed if he gets to 0hp from that poison's damage (which is interesting, considering you could drop at 0hp from the piercing part and, as written, you wouldn't be paralyzed. I think the intention is "dropping to 0hp while so poisoned", though).
Spells and effects that have the victim repeat the saving throw explicitly mention it; there is no core rule about repeating saving throws.
For example, see the difference between the blindness caused by the Dust Mephit and a Solar (comparing imps to pit fiends here, but it works :p ).
...and while we're at the subject of Pit Fiends, check that one's poison too!
And yes, the way it reads, the victim of that poison is only paralyzed if he gets to 0hp from that poison's damage (which is interesting, considering you could drop at 0hp from the piercing part and, as written, you wouldn't be paralyzed. I think the intention is "dropping to 0hp while so poisoned", though).
The only problem I have with your two comparisons is that both of them give a soultion for relieving the condition (Dust mephit repeats the save every round, the Solar specifically states magic/lesser restoration can remove the condition). The Giant Spider doesn't state how to relieve the condition at all.
edit: even the Pit Fiend states the resolution of the condition, but the Giant Spider does not -- I guess this is why I was confused. I think it's just poor wording/description likely on that monster (which is unfortunate especially considering it's in the starter set and it doesn't tell you how to cure the poison).
The giant spider poison does not make you poisoned unless the target's hit points are reduced to 0. Only in that case you are poisoned for 1 hour (and paralysed as well). Since in this case there is no specific rule to remove the poison, the general rules applies: you can remove this poison by Lesser restoration and Protection from poison, Lay on Hands, or more powerful spells.
Edit: Sorry I realize with the Pit Fiend you do get to repeat the save to remove poison each turn. And with the Giant Spider, you aren't poisoned until the poison damage drops you to 0 HP -- getting bitten doesn't poison you, being dropped to 0HP by the poison on the bite poisons you (you take poison damage, but if you aren't dropped to 0 HP you don't gain the condition). Therefore this initial post was already explained after better reading the abilities.
The giant spider poison does not make you poisoned unless the target's hit points are reduced to 0. Only in that case you are poisoned for 1 hour (and paralysed as well). Since in this case there is no specific rule to remove the poison, the general rules applies: you can remove this poison by Lesser restoration and Protection from poison, Lay on Hands, or more powerful spells.
Thanks Filcat, I misunderstood the ability and thought the poison damage meant you were poisoned, which it does not. As you stated, you are not poisoned unless dropped to 0 HP by the poison of the bite, in which case you are for an hour.
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New DM here, running Lost Mine of Phandelver from the Starter Box. Next session, my party is going to have a run-in with some Giant Spider, and I want to make sure I understand the Poisoned and Paralyzed conditions. Mainly I'm looking to clarify what happens after combat. When the Giant Spider attacks with it's bite, a failed CON saving throw results in poison damage. If the poison brings the target to 0 HP, it is stable but poisoned for 1 hour even after regaining HP, and is also Paralyzed while the poison is active.
My question is, how can the group remove these conditions? From what I've looked at, the 2nd level cleric can't do anything about it with Cure Wounds or Healing Word, and a [magicitem]healing potion[/[magicitem] won't work either. It looks like the party would need access to a higher-level spell like Lesser Restoration or a magic item that specifically deals with poison (which they don't have). Just want to make sure I'm correct if they ask for clarification on what they can do. Basically, since they don't have any of those things mentioned above, they'll need to find a safe place after combat to wait out the effects.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Hi Nayt88,
your assessment seems correct. Is this the ruins of Thundertree they're approaching? If so, I'd expect them to be at least level 3.
My four players (3rd level characters) took one look at the spider webs across the path and noped out. ;)
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You are right, as far as I know, Lesser restoration is the lowest spell you can use to cure those conditions.
Some Antitoxins can be useful in that regard.
If you're concerned and the players are determined to take on the spiders, you could have the druid cure them, if it goes a bit wrong? I'm certain that there would be some favour he would want from them for this. ;)
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
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Thanks for confirming!
Hmm, multi-quote seems to not be working for me at the moment, even after a page refresh, and close/reopen.
Stormknight: Yeah, they're in Thundertree. They are getting close to level 3, but still need about 200 or so XP. I've got a party of six, so I'm hoping the extra attacks in the action economy make up for the lower level. We left off after meeting the druid, who told them he could lead them to Cragmaw Castle if they chase off the green dragon. They are hellbent on taking the straightest course to recover Gundren, with little interest in side quests. I blame video games ;) If they get into deep trouble, the Druid may pull them out, heal them, and send them on their way back to Phandalin with a warning not to comeback until they've gotten stronger.
Filcat: Yeah, no antitoxins in the group either. That list you provided only lists "antitoxin: 50gp," is there a list of antitoxins, or a description of features and limitations? Or is it up to DMs to determine their function? I couldn't find anything under the Equipment or Magic Item lists.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Page 151 of the PHB:
edit: lol, damn, beaten by Filcat again. I'll go back to watch my steam client fail to load the Steam Summer sale... ;)
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Thanks again, guys!
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I don't know how relevant it is (it kind of depends on the party), but a Paladin can also neutralize poison with Lay on Hands, from the get go.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
If they end up fighting the green dragon, then they should lose.
Just a single use of it's breath weapon can wipe out most parties of 2nd-3rd level with ease.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Good point Stormnight. That green dragon is a young green dragon...CR 8.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 11 Constitution saving throw, taking 9 (2d8) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. If the poison damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, the target is stable but poisoned for 1 hour, even after regaining hit points, and is paralyzed while poisoned in this way.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
Spells and effects that have the victim repeat the saving throw explicitly mention it; there is no core rule about repeating saving throws.
For example, see the difference between the blindness caused by the Dust Mephit and a Solar (comparing imps to pit fiends here, but it works :p ).
...and while we're at the subject of Pit Fiends, check that one's poison too!
And yes, the way it reads, the victim of that poison is only paralyzed if he gets to 0hp from that poison's damage (which is interesting, considering you could drop at 0hp from the piercing part and, as written, you wouldn't be paralyzed. I think the intention is "dropping to 0hp while so poisoned", though).
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
The giant spider poison does not make you poisoned unless the target's hit points are reduced to 0. Only in that case you are poisoned for 1 hour (and paralysed as well). Since in this case there is no specific rule to remove the poison, the general rules applies: you can remove this poison by Lesser restoration and Protection from poison, Lay on Hands, or more powerful spells.
Edit: Sorry I realize with the Pit Fiend you do get to repeat the save to remove poison each turn. And with the Giant Spider, you aren't poisoned until the poison damage drops you to 0 HP -- getting bitten doesn't poison you, being dropped to 0HP by the poison on the bite poisons you (you take poison damage, but if you aren't dropped to 0 HP you don't gain the condition). Therefore this initial post was already explained after better reading the abilities.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!