Hello! 🙂 I have a Beast Master-y question for you.
In your opinion, regarding this Beast of the Land attack:
Maul. Melee Weapon Attack: your spell attack modifier to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d8 + 2 + PB slashing damage.
"Your" in that case being the Ranger's, and therefore Wisdom, then:
- Where would that +2 damage be coming from? (The Beast of the Land has Str 14, Dex 14, Wis 14) - If the Beast had Guardian of Nature(Primal Beast) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks? - If the Beast had Guardian of Nature(Great Tree) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks? - If the Ranger had Guardian of Nature(Great Tree) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks?
This largely sounds like it is in the realm of "Ask your DM" but since this character is in Adventurers League, that would be a lot of DMs, and I can't center a build around a variable thing without at least some ruling to expect most of the time.
Where would that +2 damage be coming from? (The Beast of the Land has Str 14, Dex 14, Wis 14)
If the Beast had Guardian of Nature(Primal Beast) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks?
If the Beast had Guardian of Nature(Great Tree) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks?
If the Ranger had Guardian of Nature(Great Tree) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks?
First I'd like to point out that the beast cant have guardian of nature cast on it (as it is a self spell), but it can benefit after reaching level 15. This actually makes question 4 essentially the same as question 3.
Most likely strength is my guess, but doesn't really matter.
I'd say No.
I'd say Maybe. Technically, it's attack does not use any of its own stats, which would be a No, but if I had to pick 1 I would say it uses your wisdom, and would be willing to extend that to the beast.
It really is up to your DM interpretation. There is no reason supported by the rules for it ever to get advantage on attacks from this spell.
It would be reasonable to apply the Primal Beast advantage for the Beast of the Land/Sea and the Great Tree bonus to the Beast of the Sky, as the most straightforward applications of the damage bonuses would be from STR for the former and DEX for the latter. But there's nothing to specifically say that these are the case beyond deduction from general rules, so it it subject to DM fiat.
First I'd like to point out that the beast cant have guardian of nature cast on it (as it is a self spell), but it can benefit after reaching level 15. This actually makes question 4 essentially the same as question 3.
I should've added the part that I'm using the 15th level Beast Master feature Share Spells to have the Beast also affected by Guardian of Nature simultaneously, but I forgot. 😅
About question 1 I'm asking that because I'm planning on slapping a Belt of Giant Strength on that Beast, so if the attack could default to Strength like a regular melee attack, that +2 would become a +9.
As for the attacks part, I'm thinking of defaulting to expecting it to have Advantage if the Great Tree option is chosen. The reasoning would be that the Beast would still be the one making the attack (under orders from the Ranger, and using the Ranger's Wisdom, but still the Beast making it), and it's a Wisdom-based attack that also seems to get the Beast's Strength involved, kind of weird.
I figured it all would fall under DM interpretation, but since this is an Adventurers League character, I'm asking around to see most interpretations of that and what I should expect on tables. Thank you for your answers. 🙂
Hello! 🙂 I have a Beast Master-y question for you.
In your opinion, regarding this Beast of the Land attack:
Maul. Melee Weapon Attack: your spell attack modifier to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d8 + 2 + PB slashing damage.
"Your" in that case being the Ranger's, and therefore Wisdom, then:
- Where would that +2 damage be coming from? (The Beast of the Land has Str 14, Dex 14, Wis 14) - If the Beast had Guardian of Nature(Primal Beast) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks? - If the Beast had Guardian of Nature(Great Tree) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks? - If the Ranger had Guardian of Nature(Great Tree) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks?
This largely sounds like it is in the realm of "Ask your DM" but since this character is in Adventurers League, that would be a lot of DMs, and I can't center a build around a variable thing without at least some ruling to expect most of the time.
So, what do you think?
You can't cast Guardian of Nature and have it affect the Primal Companion without a house rule. Assuming you have such a house rule - and I agree, I think Tasha's badly messed up its rules and the RAI is clearly that the subclass abilities, including the L15 one, should work on the Primal Companion - where the +2 comes from would remain immaterial to your question about the spell, but I think the answer is that the +2 is from Strength.
As to your question about the spell, it has to be no to Primal Beast and yes to Great Tree, noting that the Ranger would have to cast it on themselves and share it via the houseruled L15 ability to make that happen. The Beast's attacks rolls are Wisdom-based, and Guardian of Nature doesn't say it has to be base on the caster's or target's Wisdom, only on Wisdom.
First I'd like to point out that the beast cant have guardian of nature cast on it (as it is a self spell), but it can benefit after reaching level 15. This actually makes question 4 essentially the same as question 3.
I should've added the part that I'm using the 15th level Beast Master feature Share Spells to have the Beast also affected by Guardian of Nature simultaneously, but I forgot. 😅
About question 1 I'm asking that because I'm planning on slapping a Belt of Giant Strength on that Beast, so if the attack could default to Strength like a regular melee attack, that +2 would become a +9.
As for the attacks part, I'm thinking of defaulting to expecting it to have Advantage if the Great Tree option is chosen. The reasoning would be that the Beast would still be the one making the attack (under orders from the Ranger, and using the Ranger's Wisdom, but still the Beast making it), and it's a Wisdom-based attack that also seems to get the Beast's Strength involved, kind of weird.
I figured it all would fall under DM interpretation, but since this is an Adventurers League character, I'm asking around to see most interpretations of that and what I should expect on tables. Thank you for your answers. 🙂
I see. I'd allow that, but definitely run it by your DM to see what they think.
Yeah, it being a wisdom based attack roll (even if it isn't the beast's wisdom) is why I would rule it that way too. Lets hope your DM feels the same.
My stress level with this question ratcheted up about 10 points when you mentioned it's for Adventurers League... its a pretty new feature without a lot of SAC guideance, has very unclear interactions with the rest of the Beast Master's class features after the level 3 Ranger's Companion that it replaces, the effect (if any) of buffing strength on monsters is controversial in general, etc. etc.... just know that you're wading into a class that your DMs in Adventurers League may feel pressured to regulate more heavily than your average home DM would .
If it were my game, I'd say yes-no-yes-no in that order to your questions, but ymmv.
My stress level with this question ratcheted up about 10 points when you mentioned it's for Adventurers League... its a pretty new feature without a lot of SAC guideance, has very unclear interactions with the rest of the Beast Master's class features after the level 3 Ranger's Companion that it replaces, the effect (if any) of buffing strength on monsters is controversial in general, etc. etc.... just know that you're wading into a class that your DMs in Adventurers League may feel pressured to regulate more heavily than your average home DM would .
If it were my game, I'd say yes-no-yes-no in that order to your questions, but ymmv.
Yeah, I've been dealing with that lately 😂 though sill with the PHB one. Current points that draw attention are Barding AC stacking with the Ranger's Companion bonus (which Ranger's Companion does and Primal Companion seemingly doesn't), and the ability to attune to the Belt of Giant Strength (which thankfully is covered by a FAQ ruling which implies animal companions have the ability to, though the point of which ability is actually used is still left to interpretation).
So far it's not been problematic and I always do warn them when applying to games. I did try to get some admin ruling on these (and others involving the ability of a summoned Beast of the Land to retain Wish-granted resistances and maybe even attach the Fai Chen's Mini Displacer Beast's ability to cast Blur 1/day to the statblock) at their Discord, but no luck so far.
Given the commonly seen Dwarven Throwers, Sorcadins, GWM+PAMs, Simulacrums, and Sharpshooters around, a Beast Master is usually the least of a DM's worries.
Shit. Totally missed the adventurers league mention. You should probably just expect the belt and spell to not help the companion at all and just be pleasantly surprised if the DM allows it.
And if you change DMs between adventures, reset your expectations again.
The rules are not very helpful when it comes to pet subclasses.
Yeah, the fact that Ranger's Companion provides PB as a static bonus from the feature on top of a monster's statblock, vs. Primal Companion being a feature which provides no static bonuses but does let you summon a monster that contains those bonuses within the monster's statblock... it's a subtle difference, but one with some serious implications for barding.
Given the commonly seen Dwarven Throwers, Sorcadins, GWM+PAMs, Simulacrums, and Sharpshooters around, a Beast Master is usually the least of a DM's worries.
For now, but the new Primal Companion is proficient in all saves and ability checks, which means especially if it's house ruled to play nicely with the subclass, it's ripe for abuse, imho. It's not hard to convince a GM that you've picked a shape capable of complex tool use, too, like a chimpanzee or octopus. Your belt of strength example is all well and good until you strap it to a beast of the *sky* and have it start flybying in to either shove your enemies prone or grapple them and carry them into the sky. Now imagine a cloak of elvenkind + pass without trace, for example. Universal proficiency is *amazing*.
For now, but the new Primal Companion is proficient in all saves and ability checks, which means especially if it's house ruled to play nicely with the subclass, it's ripe for abuse, imho. It's not hard to convince a GM that you've picked a shape capable of complex tool use, too, like a chimpanzee or octopus. Your belt of strength example is all well and good until you strap it to a beast of the *sky* and have it start flybying in to either shove your enemies prone or grapple them and carry them into the sky. Now imagine a cloak of elvenkind + pass without trace, for example. Universal proficiency is *amazing*.
Now that you mention it 😂 Though I don't have anything like that in mind, just wanted an animal companion that could somewhat compete with the other bruisers around (and sticking with the Beast of the Land for Wish-stacking shenanigans).
Hello! 🙂 I have a Beast Master-y question for you.
In your opinion, regarding this Beast of the Land attack:
"Your" in that case being the Ranger's, and therefore Wisdom, then:
- Where would that +2 damage be coming from? (The Beast of the Land has Str 14, Dex 14, Wis 14)
- If the Beast had Guardian of Nature (Primal Beast) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks?
- If the Beast had Guardian of Nature (Great Tree) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks?
- If the Ranger had Guardian of Nature (Great Tree) cast on them, would the Beast have advantage on attacks?
This largely sounds like it is in the realm of "Ask your DM" but since this character is in Adventurers League, that would be a lot of DMs, and I can't center a build around a variable thing without at least some ruling to expect most of the time.
So, what do you think?
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First I'd like to point out that the beast cant have guardian of nature cast on it (as it is a self spell), but it can benefit after reaching level 15. This actually makes question 4 essentially the same as question 3.
It really is up to your DM interpretation. There is no reason supported by the rules for it ever to get advantage on attacks from this spell.
It would be reasonable to apply the Primal Beast advantage for the Beast of the Land/Sea and the Great Tree bonus to the Beast of the Sky, as the most straightforward applications of the damage bonuses would be from STR for the former and DEX for the latter. But there's nothing to specifically say that these are the case beyond deduction from general rules, so it it subject to DM fiat.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
I should've added the part that I'm using the 15th level Beast Master feature Share Spells to have the Beast also affected by Guardian of Nature simultaneously, but I forgot. 😅
About question 1 I'm asking that because I'm planning on slapping a Belt of Giant Strength on that Beast, so if the attack could default to Strength like a regular melee attack, that +2 would become a +9.
As for the attacks part, I'm thinking of defaulting to expecting it to have Advantage if the Great Tree option is chosen. The reasoning would be that the Beast would still be the one making the attack (under orders from the Ranger, and using the Ranger's Wisdom, but still the Beast making it), and it's a Wisdom-based attack that also seems to get the Beast's Strength involved, kind of weird.
I figured it all would fall under DM interpretation, but since this is an Adventurers League character, I'm asking around to see most interpretations of that and what I should expect on tables. Thank you for your answers. 🙂
Art Portfolio
You can't cast Guardian of Nature and have it affect the Primal Companion without a house rule. Assuming you have such a house rule - and I agree, I think Tasha's badly messed up its rules and the RAI is clearly that the subclass abilities, including the L15 one, should work on the Primal Companion - where the +2 comes from would remain immaterial to your question about the spell, but I think the answer is that the +2 is from Strength.
As to your question about the spell, it has to be no to Primal Beast and yes to Great Tree, noting that the Ranger would have to cast it on themselves and share it via the houseruled L15 ability to make that happen. The Beast's attacks rolls are Wisdom-based, and Guardian of Nature doesn't say it has to be base on the caster's or target's Wisdom, only on Wisdom.
I see. I'd allow that, but definitely run it by your DM to see what they think.
Yeah, it being a wisdom based attack roll (even if it isn't the beast's wisdom) is why I would rule it that way too. Lets hope your DM feels the same.
My stress level with this question ratcheted up about 10 points when you mentioned it's for Adventurers League... its a pretty new feature without a lot of SAC guideance, has very unclear interactions with the rest of the Beast Master's class features after the level 3 Ranger's Companion that it replaces, the effect (if any) of buffing strength on monsters is controversial in general, etc. etc.... just know that you're wading into a class that your DMs in Adventurers League may feel pressured to regulate more heavily than your average home DM would .
If it were my game, I'd say yes-no-yes-no in that order to your questions, but ymmv.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yeah, I've been dealing with that lately 😂 though sill with the PHB one. Current points that draw attention are Barding AC stacking with the Ranger's Companion bonus (which Ranger's Companion does and Primal Companion seemingly doesn't), and the ability to attune to the Belt of Giant Strength (which thankfully is covered by a FAQ ruling which implies animal companions have the ability to, though the point of which ability is actually used is still left to interpretation).
So far it's not been problematic and I always do warn them when applying to games. I did try to get some admin ruling on these (and others involving the ability of a summoned Beast of the Land to retain Wish-granted resistances and maybe even attach the Fai Chen's Mini Displacer Beast's ability to cast Blur 1/day to the statblock) at their Discord, but no luck so far.
Given the commonly seen Dwarven Throwers, Sorcadins, GWM+PAMs, Simulacrums, and Sharpshooters around, a Beast Master is usually the least of a DM's worries.
Art Portfolio
Shit. Totally missed the adventurers league mention. You should probably just expect the belt and spell to not help the companion at all and just be pleasantly surprised if the DM allows it.
And if you change DMs between adventures, reset your expectations again.
The rules are not very helpful when it comes to pet subclasses.
Yeah, the fact that Ranger's Companion provides PB as a static bonus from the feature on top of a monster's statblock, vs. Primal Companion being a feature which provides no static bonuses but does let you summon a monster that contains those bonuses within the monster's statblock... it's a subtle difference, but one with some serious implications for barding.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
For now, but the new Primal Companion is proficient in all saves and ability checks, which means especially if it's house ruled to play nicely with the subclass, it's ripe for abuse, imho. It's not hard to convince a GM that you've picked a shape capable of complex tool use, too, like a chimpanzee or octopus. Your belt of strength example is all well and good until you strap it to a beast of the *sky* and have it start flybying in to either shove your enemies prone or grapple them and carry them into the sky. Now imagine a cloak of elvenkind + pass without trace, for example. Universal proficiency is *amazing*.
Now that you mention it 😂 Though I don't have anything like that in mind, just wanted an animal companion that could somewhat compete with the other bruisers around (and sticking with the Beast of the Land for Wish-stacking shenanigans).
Anyway, thanks for the input, everyone :)
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