If a sorcerer with Subtle Spell metamagic gains Ritual Casting ability through either feat or multiclassing, can s/he subtly cast the ritual? Like standing there casually or pretending to sleep, but actually casting that ritual (given that the materials or spell casting focus are present).
I believe by RAW you can. Not sure if that is intended.
Let me rephrase my question: is it intended? This weird interaction between an innate spellcasting class feature and other non-innate spellcasting features.
That's a question you'd have to ask Jeremy Crawford, but I don't see what's special about ritual casting specifically. There's other spells with a casting time longer than 1 action that you could cast with Subtle Spell too. A Divine Soul could spend 10 minutes appearing idle while casting Prayer of Healing.
That’s a very fair point! Spells like Clairvoyance that takes 10 minutes to cast is on the original sorcerer spell list, so you can definitely subtly cast that.
There actually aren't any spells on the sorcerer spell list with a long casting time and no M component, so you'd be able to tell they're up to something. But a single-classed sorcerer could still cast Clairvoyance through a spell scroll without material components and apply Subtle Spell to that casting.
I'd be inclined to disallow it, or at the very least discourage it, simply because "ritual" casting implies some sort of "ritual". and "doing nothing" doesn't really say "ritual" to me. :D
Seriously, though, seems to be perfectly allowed by RAW, and I'd venture to say it was intended, or at the very least not unintended. As InquisitiveCoder mentioned, there's very little functional difference (in fact, only the expenditure of a spell slot) between casting a ritual spell and casting a regular spell with a cast time of 10 minutes or more.
I'd be inclined to disallow it, or at the very least discourage it, simply because "ritual" casting implies some sort of "ritual". and "doing nothing" doesn't really say "ritual" to me. :D
Sorcerers have an intuitive understanding of how to hack the magic system, so that can easily be hand-waved away. It is a bit weird, but I prefer not to mess with a player's RAW-given abilities if they're not causing any problems. The game never really pins down what constitutes a ritual and why it lets you forego spell slots anyways. It's just a game mechanic to give situational and utility spells a chance to shine.
I'd be inclined to disallow it, or at the very least discourage it, simply because "ritual" casting implies some sort of "ritual". and "doing nothing" doesn't really say "ritual" to me. :D
Sorcerers have an intuitive understanding of how to hack the magic system, so that can easily be hand-waved away. It is a bit weird, but I prefer not to mess with a player's RAW-given abilities if they're not causing any problems. The game never really pins down what constitutes a ritual and why it lets you forego spell slots anyways. It's just a game mechanic to give situational and utility spells a chance to shine.
Yah, that was meant more like a joke, although an admittedly lame one. :p
Thank you guys for these useful insights from different angels. Good to see different opinions all with legit reasoning (indicating I’m asking a question worth discussing). My DM first disallowed it but then changed his mind, and it will be a hilarious character concept.
One interesting thing to note is that by RAW, while you must use your action each round to cast the spell, you could you still move your base 30 ft as it isn't really an action. Generally, you couldn't use the dash action, but a rogue multi-class could still use their bonus action to dash (which seems really silly). But it is very odd to think that you could just amble along casting a ritual (or any long cast time spell). Just cognitive dissonance with the idea of someone scribing a ritual circle. I can't see how it would be game unbalance just really odd (in a fun way).
Even odder, I think you could even use your reaction to make an attack (an AoO or other feature that let's you use a reaction) while casting a long cast time spell.
If a sorcerer with Subtle Spell metamagic gains Ritual Casting ability through either feat or multiclassing, can s/he subtly cast the ritual? Like standing there casually or pretending to sleep, but actually casting that ritual (given that the materials or spell casting focus are present).
I believe by RAW you can. Not sure if that is intended.
Subtle Spell works with any spell you cast. It doesn't have to be a sorcerer spell and it places no restrictions on casting time.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Let me rephrase my question: is it intended? This weird interaction between an innate spellcasting class feature and other non-innate spellcasting features.
That's a question you'd have to ask Jeremy Crawford, but I don't see what's special about ritual casting specifically. There's other spells with a casting time longer than 1 action that you could cast with Subtle Spell too. A Divine Soul could spend 10 minutes appearing idle while casting Prayer of Healing.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
That’s a very fair point! Spells like Clairvoyance that takes 10 minutes to cast is on the original sorcerer spell list, so you can definitely subtly cast that.
There actually aren't any spells on the sorcerer spell list with a long casting time and no M component, so you'd be able to tell they're up to something. But a single-classed sorcerer could still cast Clairvoyance through a spell scroll without material components and apply Subtle Spell to that casting.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I'd be inclined to disallow it, or at the very least discourage it, simply because "ritual" casting implies some sort of "ritual". and "doing nothing" doesn't really say "ritual" to me. :D
Seriously, though, seems to be perfectly allowed by RAW, and I'd venture to say it was intended, or at the very least not unintended. As InquisitiveCoder mentioned, there's very little functional difference (in fact, only the expenditure of a spell slot) between casting a ritual spell and casting a regular spell with a cast time of 10 minutes or more.
Sorcerers have an intuitive understanding of how to hack the magic system, so that can easily be hand-waved away. It is a bit weird, but I prefer not to mess with a player's RAW-given abilities if they're not causing any problems. The game never really pins down what constitutes a ritual and why it lets you forego spell slots anyways. It's just a game mechanic to give situational and utility spells a chance to shine.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Yah, that was meant more like a joke, although an admittedly lame one. :p
Thank you guys for these useful insights from different angels. Good to see different opinions all with legit reasoning (indicating I’m asking a question worth discussing). My DM first disallowed it but then changed his mind, and it will be a hilarious character concept.
One interesting thing to note is that by RAW, while you must use your action each round to cast the spell, you could you still move your base 30 ft as it isn't really an action. Generally, you couldn't use the dash action, but a rogue multi-class could still use their bonus action to dash (which seems really silly). But it is very odd to think that you could just amble along casting a ritual (or any long cast time spell). Just cognitive dissonance with the idea of someone scribing a ritual circle. I can't see how it would be game unbalance just really odd (in a fun way).
Even odder, I think you could even use your reaction to make an attack (an AoO or other feature that let's you use a reaction) while casting a long cast time spell.