i am starting a new campaign and someone in my party has already chosen paladin. We've all agreed not to start with the same class, so i went with fighter. But upon creating my character I've discovered how a paladin is similar in proficincies and fighting style, which is fine but the ability "divine smite" is extremely powerful. Add this on to the fact paladin gets spells (i know that eldritch knight does too") it winds up making me feel that my fighter is redundant. Is there any way to make my fighter useful in its own way? All help is welcome, thanks!
I wouldn't consider them "redundant". They do different things. The Paladin has greater focus as a support class, in addition it's fighting styles are limited to: weapon & shield, defense, and two handed weapon. In addition the Smite is very limited, because the Paladin has very limited spell/day, where the Fighter often has it's ability at per Short Rest.
Lets breakdown the class not the subclass, as that gets complex.
Both classes get: Martial Weapons, Heavy Armor, Shields, 2 Skills, and 1d10 Hit Dice. Their major difference is between Savs. (Str/Con or Wis/Cha). The level differences are below:
lvl 1 Fighter: Fighting Style (passive) and Second Wind (short rest) lvl 1 Paladin: Divine Sense (long rest) and Lay on Hands (long rest) lvl 2 Fighter: Action Surge (short rest) lvl 2 Paladin: Fighting Style (passive), Spellcasting (long rest), Divine Smite lvl 3 Fighter: Subclass lvl 3 Paladin: Divine Health (passive), Subclass, +1 1st lvl spell lvl 4 Fighter: ASI/Feat lvl 4 Paladin: ASI/Feat lvl 5 Fighter: Extra Attack (passive) lvl 5 Paladin: Extra Attack (passive), +1st 1st lvl spell, +2 2nd lvl spell (long rest) lvl 6 Fighter: ASI lvl 6 Paladin: Aura of Protection (passive)
As you can see the Fighter's abilities are all passives (always on) or reset on a Short Rest, while the Paladin has all of it's abilities are passive and reset on a long rest. It could depend on your campaign, but this means the Fighter can and SHOULD be using all it's power all the time, while the Paladin has to be more judicial in it's use, and it's possible the spell might be better for them then Smite. I don't think any class makes any other redundant, it's they fill similar but different roles. The Ranger doesn't make either them of redundant and neither does the Hexblade. Also at high levels only the Fighter gets more Extra Attacks and more ASI/Feats then anyone else.
Fighter and Paladin are sort of redundant, in that they're two of the three classes that fill the same general "Warrior" niche (Barbarian is the third). All three of the warrior classes are good at taking hits, dishing out damage, and generally work well as athletes and front like warriors. (The other three niches are "scout," "support," and "artillery." Rogues, rangers and monks are scouts, bards, clerics and druids are support, and wizards, sorcerers and warlocks are artillery).
That said, as time goes on, more and more differences show up. Paladins do get some rather nice smites and healing, but only the Fighter gets an Action Surge. At level 3, Battlemaster is one of the most flexible, interesting and powerful options in the game, able to do things paladins can't. Fighters also get more Attribute / feats, so you can chain things like Polearm Master / Great Weapon Master / Sentinel far easier than any other class. Thematically, paladins are the knights in shining armor and the holy warriors. Fighters, meanwhile, are soldiers and mercenaries, who study technical perfection with their weapons over any magic, code of honor, etc.
So, the secret to making yourself not feel redundant is to channel your energies into a different direction than the paladin. If the paladin is setting herself up to be the heavy hitter of the group, swinging around a giant sword, don't try to compete with her. In the long run, fighter would win, but this isn't meant to be player competition. Instead, focus on specializing on close range control, or swap around your stats a bit and make an arcane archer, or take a protective shielding build to become a bodyguard type. This way, everyone has their own niche.
Most Paladin class features require them to make melee attacks or be within 10 feet of allies. They can't be everywhere at once. As a Fighter, you're free to switch between melee and ranged combat and can help cover gaps for the Paladin. You can position yourself to cut off enemies that try to go around the Paladin to reach spellcasters. You can attack targets the Paladin can't reach. You bring another reaction to the table for opportunity attacks or Protection Fighting Style (even if the Paladin also takes Protection Fighting Style, that's only good for one hit.)
Your choice of subclass also gives you options the Paladin won't have:
Battle Masters can easily trip, disarm or push enemies from a distance, move allies without provoking opportunity attacks or give them an attack as a reaction.
Arcane Archers have some crowd control abilities with arcane shots like Grasping Arrow and Bursting Arrow.
Samurai combine staying power with burst damage by using Fighting Spirit and Action Surge at the same time, while also getting bonuses to social skills and better resistance to mind-affecting spells (Wisdom saving throws.)
Cavaliers are great at discouraging enemies from attacking anyone other than you, even more so than Paladins.
Champion and Purple Dragon Knight are pretty weak compared to Battle Master, Cavalier or Samurai; I'd avoid those two subclasses altogether.
So, the secret to making yourself not feel redundant is to channel your energies into a different direction than the paladin. If the paladin is setting herself up to be the heavy hitter of the group, swinging around a giant sword, don't try to compete with her. In the long run, fighter would win, but this isn't meant to be player competition. Instead, focus on specializing on close range control, or swap around your stats a bit and make an arcane archer, or take a protective shielding build to become a bodyguard type. This way, everyone has their own niche.
This is excellent advice! Most (all?) classes can be built differently depending on how you want to play them. Sure, the greatsword-wielding Fighter, sword-and-board Paladin, and greataxe-swinging Barbarian are classic builds, and they work great! But a Fighter can actually make a very excellent archer, for example. Or go the Eldritch Knight way, leaning more heavily on spells, to become a sort of armored mage. You could even focus on Dexterity rather than Strength, and dual wield.
Thanks for all the advice, I've decided to use battle master to help weaken enemies and strengthen party members and be a kind of defender of spellcasters, while the paladin goes and faces the enemies up front.
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i am starting a new campaign and someone in my party has already chosen paladin. We've all agreed not to start with the same class, so i went with fighter. But upon creating my character I've discovered how a paladin is similar in proficincies and fighting style, which is fine but the ability "divine smite" is extremely powerful. Add this on to the fact paladin gets spells (i know that eldritch knight does too") it winds up making me feel that my fighter is redundant. Is there any way to make my fighter useful in its own way? All help is welcome, thanks!
I wouldn't consider them "redundant". They do different things. The Paladin has greater focus as a support class, in addition it's fighting styles are limited to: weapon & shield, defense, and two handed weapon.
In addition the Smite is very limited, because the Paladin has very limited spell/day, where the Fighter often has it's ability at per Short Rest.
Lets breakdown the class not the subclass, as that gets complex.
Both classes get: Martial Weapons, Heavy Armor, Shields, 2 Skills, and 1d10 Hit Dice. Their major difference is between Savs. (Str/Con or Wis/Cha).
The level differences are below:
lvl 1 Fighter: Fighting Style (passive) and Second Wind (short rest)
lvl 1 Paladin: Divine Sense (long rest) and Lay on Hands (long rest)
lvl 2 Fighter: Action Surge (short rest)
lvl 2 Paladin: Fighting Style (passive), Spellcasting (long rest), Divine Smite
lvl 3 Fighter: Subclass
lvl 3 Paladin: Divine Health (passive), Subclass, +1 1st lvl spell
lvl 4 Fighter: ASI/Feat
lvl 4 Paladin: ASI/Feat
lvl 5 Fighter: Extra Attack (passive)
lvl 5 Paladin: Extra Attack (passive), +1st 1st lvl spell, +2 2nd lvl spell (long rest)
lvl 6 Fighter: ASI
lvl 6 Paladin: Aura of Protection (passive)
As you can see the Fighter's abilities are all passives (always on) or reset on a Short Rest, while the Paladin has all of it's abilities are passive and reset on a long rest.
It could depend on your campaign, but this means the Fighter can and SHOULD be using all it's power all the time, while the Paladin has to be more judicial in it's use, and it's possible the spell might be better for them then Smite.
I don't think any class makes any other redundant, it's they fill similar but different roles. The Ranger doesn't make either them of redundant and neither does the Hexblade.
Also at high levels only the Fighter gets more Extra Attacks and more ASI/Feats then anyone else.
Fighter and Paladin are sort of redundant, in that they're two of the three classes that fill the same general "Warrior" niche (Barbarian is the third). All three of the warrior classes are good at taking hits, dishing out damage, and generally work well as athletes and front like warriors. (The other three niches are "scout," "support," and "artillery." Rogues, rangers and monks are scouts, bards, clerics and druids are support, and wizards, sorcerers and warlocks are artillery).
That said, as time goes on, more and more differences show up. Paladins do get some rather nice smites and healing, but only the Fighter gets an Action Surge. At level 3, Battlemaster is one of the most flexible, interesting and powerful options in the game, able to do things paladins can't. Fighters also get more Attribute / feats, so you can chain things like Polearm Master / Great Weapon Master / Sentinel far easier than any other class. Thematically, paladins are the knights in shining armor and the holy warriors. Fighters, meanwhile, are soldiers and mercenaries, who study technical perfection with their weapons over any magic, code of honor, etc.
So, the secret to making yourself not feel redundant is to channel your energies into a different direction than the paladin. If the paladin is setting herself up to be the heavy hitter of the group, swinging around a giant sword, don't try to compete with her. In the long run, fighter would win, but this isn't meant to be player competition. Instead, focus on specializing on close range control, or swap around your stats a bit and make an arcane archer, or take a protective shielding build to become a bodyguard type. This way, everyone has their own niche.
Most Paladin class features require them to make melee attacks or be within 10 feet of allies. They can't be everywhere at once. As a Fighter, you're free to switch between melee and ranged combat and can help cover gaps for the Paladin. You can position yourself to cut off enemies that try to go around the Paladin to reach spellcasters. You can attack targets the Paladin can't reach. You bring another reaction to the table for opportunity attacks or Protection Fighting Style (even if the Paladin also takes Protection Fighting Style, that's only good for one hit.)
Your choice of subclass also gives you options the Paladin won't have:
This is excellent advice! Most (all?) classes can be built differently depending on how you want to play them. Sure, the greatsword-wielding Fighter, sword-and-board Paladin, and greataxe-swinging Barbarian are classic builds, and they work great! But a Fighter can actually make a very excellent archer, for example. Or go the Eldritch Knight way, leaning more heavily on spells, to become a sort of armored mage. You could even focus on Dexterity rather than Strength, and dual wield.
Thanks for all the advice, I've decided to use battle master to help weaken enemies and strengthen party members and be a kind of defender of spellcasters, while the paladin goes and faces the enemies up front.