That ERGG is me grinding out all the reasons to change my mind about either Mage Hand or Minor Illusion. I know they are both wildly useful utility spells for VERY different reasons, but everytime I think I have made a choice, the other one calls me back. 30 ft of telekinesis does sound like a boon, but at will 5ft cube illusions for a character built on controlling feels more fun and seems more in line.
I was wondering how the mob feels about the difference between these given the usefulness of a Paladin about to get a familiar (which could double for mage hand) and prestidigitation (which has a little overlap, but not really)?
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
If you go minor illusion, you could really play up the "God is telling me..." aspect by giving people "visions" and then persuading them that it was truly from the gods. Double it up by using Prestidigitation's effects (not as effective as Thaumaturgy's effects for this, but still not bad) and then having your familiar pop on as a "sign". Throw in a couple of actual communiques from your diety of choice and bam! You've got people eating out of your hand and have the conquest thing going from all angles.
Why don't you take cleric? Plays a bit more into your paladin. But, on the subject, I would say minor illusion. I think that it can be more useful, and agree with jhffan's point.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'd vote for Mage hand. One thing Paladins are good at is setting off traps. Having Mage hand to open doors, open chests, pick up suspicious items when others are not available. Gentlely slapping someone as a challenge could be fun also.
I'd vote for Mage hand. One thing Paladins are good at is setting off traps. Having Mage hand to open doors, open chests, pick up suspicious items when others are not available. Gentlely slapping someone as a challenge could be fun also.
Compelled Duel is a bonus action and could be used in the same turn as Mage Hand. You'd have to clarify that the slapping wasn't done as an attack, just an attempt to force disadvantage on the creatures Wisdom Save for compelled duel.
And as such, the flavor wars have begun! What kind of Paladin will the OP be?
Edit: I still like the other for Conquest Paladin, but I like this angle for some of the other oaths.
What is your INT score? I ask because the wizard spells will use it to determine the DC of the spells you choose. If a creature only needs to beat a DC of 10 or 11 to see past the illusion, it might not be worthwhile compared to a spell that consistently works regardless of DC.
"If a creature uses its action to examine the sound or image, the creature can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC."
Excellent point, it would be an Investigation check against a DC of 10, but it would be their action to see through it if they took the time. I was thinking of it as minor battlefield control for cheap obscuring cover on demand and general RP mischief.
My GM allowed me to take the Blessed Warrior fighting style, so I picked up guidance and sacred flame. Being a tiefling granted my character Thaumaturgy. I really enjoy the basic class cantrips a lot and wish I could spring for Druidcraft as well. So my character is sitting with: Thaumaturgy, Prestidigitation, Sacred Flame (DC 13), and either Mage Hand or Minor Illusion (DC10)
I think I am boiling it down to them both having great versatility, but Minor Illusion has better RP versatility when it goes all Conquest Paladin stepping out of a purple, flaming 5 ft cube to demand his opponents lay down arms in a booming voice as the ground trembles with every step. As long as those darn orcs don't decide to investigate the fire, it could work.
Also, thank you all for your input. My brain gets locked into these tiny decisions and it just needs a nudge of insight to figure it out which I am still in the throes of.
Basic upfront information. Paladin of Conquest getting Magic Initiate for lvl 4 ASI. Choosing Magic Initiate (Wizard): Find Familiar, Prestidigitation, ERGGGGG!
That ERGG is me grinding out all the reasons to change my mind about either Mage Hand or Minor Illusion. I know they are both wildly useful utility spells for VERY different reasons, but everytime I think I have made a choice, the other one calls me back. 30 ft of telekinesis does sound like a boon, but at will 5ft cube illusions for a character built on controlling feels more fun and seems more in line.
I was wondering how the mob feels about the difference between these given the usefulness of a Paladin about to get a familiar (which could double for mage hand) and prestidigitation (which has a little overlap, but not really)?
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
If you go minor illusion, you could really play up the "God is telling me..." aspect by giving people "visions" and then persuading them that it was truly from the gods. Double it up by using Prestidigitation's effects (not as effective as Thaumaturgy's effects for this, but still not bad) and then having your familiar pop on as a "sign". Throw in a couple of actual communiques from your diety of choice and bam! You've got people eating out of your hand and have the conquest thing going from all angles.
Why don't you take cleric? Plays a bit more into your paladin. But, on the subject, I would say minor illusion. I think that it can be more useful, and agree with jhffan's point.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
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I'd vote for Mage hand. One thing Paladins are good at is setting off traps. Having Mage hand to open doors, open chests, pick up suspicious items when others are not available. Gentlely slapping someone as a challenge could be fun also.
Compelled Duel is a bonus action and could be used in the same turn as Mage Hand. You'd have to clarify that the slapping wasn't done as an attack, just an attempt to force disadvantage on the creatures Wisdom Save for compelled duel.
And as such, the flavor wars have begun! What kind of Paladin will the OP be?
Edit: I still like the other for Conquest Paladin, but I like this angle for some of the other oaths.
What is your INT score? I ask because the wizard spells will use it to determine the DC of the spells you choose. If a creature only needs to beat a DC of 10 or 11 to see past the illusion, it might not be worthwhile compared to a spell that consistently works regardless of DC.
"If a creature uses its action to examine the sound or image, the creature can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC."
Excellent point, it would be an Investigation check against a DC of 10, but it would be their action to see through it if they took the time. I was thinking of it as minor battlefield control for cheap obscuring cover on demand and general RP mischief.
My GM allowed me to take the Blessed Warrior fighting style, so I picked up guidance and sacred flame. Being a tiefling granted my character Thaumaturgy. I really enjoy the basic class cantrips a lot and wish I could spring for Druidcraft as well. So my character is sitting with: Thaumaturgy, Prestidigitation, Sacred Flame (DC 13), and either Mage Hand or Minor Illusion (DC10)
I think I am boiling it down to them both having great versatility, but Minor Illusion has better RP versatility when it goes all Conquest Paladin stepping out of a purple, flaming 5 ft cube to demand his opponents lay down arms in a booming voice as the ground trembles with every step. As long as those darn orcs don't decide to investigate the fire, it could work.
Also, thank you all for your input. My brain gets locked into these tiny decisions and it just needs a nudge of insight to figure it out which I am still in the throes of.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.