Currently playing a Battlemaster Fighter that uses two scimitars as weapons. I'm level 5 already and I was going over my plans for multiclassing rogue. My original idea way back when I started making this character was to go 11 into Battlemaster Fighter and 9 into Scout Rogue. I'm worried that going too far into Rogue may hurt me in the end when I miss out on Fighter things.
I think the benefit of that many levels into Scout Rogue would be that I'd be gaining stronger sneak attack (5d6), evasion, uncanny dodge, expertise, and scout will provide 10 extra movement speed + the ability to use a reaction to reposition (I have the Sentinel feat, so that may benefit me if I want to get myself into a better position) The downside being I will be left with only two extra attacks, one action surge, one use of indomitable, and I'll miss out on two additional maneuvers and a superiority die (I could make up for those by picking up the Martial Adept feat, though.) My superiority dice would also be stuck at d10s instead of 12s, and I'd miss out on Relentless (which I'm not too bothered with missing because I'm sparing with my maneuver uses.)
Am I going to heavy on Rogue levels? If so, how far do you think I should tone it back to? I really don't think I hate pushing that hard on Rogue, but then again, I don't know if its worth the long term investment. LMK what you all think.
Edit: Now thinking about it, Assassin could be a better alternative to Scout. Scout gives a bit more mobility, but for some reason, I didn't look into Assassin's wild damaging abilities on top of a Fighter's extra attacks and action surge. If I went with this, would it still be worthwhile to go 9 levels in?
I'm no expert so I may be way off, but I'm not that impressed with Assassin after their initial ability to get advantage if the enemy hasn't taken its turn. The level 9 ability is more roleplay that can be done without this ability, or with charlatan background (although you're past that stage now) and depends on the type of game you are playing (not so useful dungeon crawling or RP-low groups, in my opinion).
As far as Scout or the level breakdown, I'm sorry I can't be more useful. If you are really into Assassin then some levels (maybe 7th level to get Evasion or 8th for ASI. But I might only stick with 4 level dip for Assassin 3rd level ability and the ASI at 4th) and the rest into Fighter.
If you have a little charisma the swashbuckler could be a good option depending on how you currently play your fighter. Honestly most of the options will do well. Mastermind let's you use bonus actions to help other peoples attacks land if you don't need it for something else. Even going 5 levels is worth a lot from the rogue in particular. There isn't a single level I can say I don't like any of the abilities.
Something I just realized you should consider, sentinel requires your reaction to use as well. So you will have options on what to do with your reaction. If you get to level 5 with scout you will have three options for your reaction, sentinel, uncanny dodge, or skirmishes. Might be tough to decide when to use it. But could also be fun to gamble with it a little.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Think I've decided on 7 levels into Assassin. I don't think I'd use Skirmishes as my reaction enough to make it useful, plus our campaign is pretty complimentary to bonuses for surprises. Looking at Swashbuckler, though, has made me want to eventually do a full rogue swashbuckler character in the future lol.
Yeah, good point. It may be worth just taking three levels in rogue for a 2d6 sneak attack, subclass benefits, and cunning action as a little bonus. It would be nice to get to 5 and get uncanny dodge, but as a Battlemaster Fighter, I can Parry, so I have a very similar ability. That'll give me more Battlemaster benefits, plus an extra action surge and up to three indomitable uses. So early game, I'll have a two-weapon fighting attack, an extra attack, sneak attack, and assassin benefits if I stick with assassin. Then I can action surge if I want to, also.
Yeah, good point. It may be worth just taking three levels in rogue for a 2d6 sneak attack, subclass benefits, and cunning action as a little bonus. It would be nice to get to 5 and get uncanny dodge, but as a Battlemaster Fighter, I can Parry, so I have a very similar ability. That'll give me more Battlemaster benefits, plus an extra action surge and up to three indomitable uses. So early game, I'll have a two-weapon fighting attack, an extra attack, sneak attack, and assassin benefits if I stick with assassin. Then I can action surge if I want to, also.
If you do stick with assassin and want to spread the pain, using a Longbow or a Shortbow will help you take capitalize on the advantage offered by creatures that haven't had a turn yet. The range of either bow combined with your movement (potentially augmented by a cunning action dash) could give you up to 4 attacks at the start of combat if using your action surge would be beneficial. Sneak attack automatically attached to each of them and auto-crits if they are surprised with the added benefit that they don't have to be bunched to do it. Or you can go crossbow, hand lose some range for each additional attack but add the crossbow expert's bonus attack to get a fifth attack. That's somewhere between 12d6+dex mod×4 and 15d6+dex mod×5 with no crits (42+dex mod ×4 and 52.5+dex mod x5, with the longbow at 4d8+8d6+dex mod x4= 18+28==>46+dex mod ×4) with a decent chance to have at least one critical in there (8-10 rolls, expected critical on 5% of rolls means .4 or .5 crits would be expected. Assuming hits across, you could eliminate up to five smaller targets or focus fire a larger target down while remaining at range. You then have the option of drawing your melee weapon as your free interaction to prepare for melee if you choose (ready for OAs even), and then stowing your ranged weapon as part of your next turn if you need to for dueling stance or dropping it to draw your offhand weapon for two weapon fighting.
Only get one sneak attack in a turn, but with that many attacks you are pretty much going to get at least one hit out of it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Only get one sneak attack in a turn, but with that many attacks you are pretty much going to get at least one hit out of it.
Lol fail. Good point. Still decent damage without that extra 4 to 6d6 in there.
Edit: just realized that you aren't told when you have to use the sneak attack. Thus, you could gamble and do a little crit fishing to maximize the sneak attack. It's certainly something that a champion/assassin would pull off more frequently.
No duds here boss. Just shiny gemstones. Honestly rogue is the hardest (or easiest since they are all good) class to pick a stopping point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
No duds here boss. Just shiny gemstones. Honestly rogue is the hardest (or easiest since they are all good) class to pick a stopping point.
I know, I was questioning Samuel's comment on levels 6,7 and 8 being dud abilities for Rogues.
If they don't fit the character, I could see it. In a vacuum, they're great. But if the character doesn't want to be more proficient with some skills than the character already is, two levels of Rogue to get Evasion is quite the cost when you could be that much closer to whatever you're getting from fighter or whatever. Getting dueling fighting style, archery fighting style, or defensive fighting style, plus second wind and action surge can be a pretty strong argument. The ASI gets pushed back a level, but that also means getting closer to extra attack sooner.
It's a give and take and clearly those "duds" are too high of a cost for what is important for Samuel's rogues. I'm sure they're are plenty of people that can't fit more than a couple of fighter levels into the same general concept because they emphasize different aspects of game play.
I was slyly concurring with you on your assessment of those levels Glimpse.
Jhffan, you are not wrong either, sometimes they don't fit for what someone has in mind thematically or mechanically. Every character and player is a wee bit different, but they are all useful abilities especially with the sneak attack die increases every other level in conjunction with some good features.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
No duds here boss. Just shiny gemstones. Honestly rogue is the hardest (or easiest since they are all good) class to pick a stopping point.
I know, I was questioning Samuel's comment on levels 6,7 and 8 being dud abilities for Rogues.
If they don't fit the character, I could see it. In a vacuum, they're great. But if the character doesn't want to be more proficient with some skills than the character already is, two levels of Rogue to get Evasion is quite the cost when you could be that much closer to whatever you're getting from fighter or whatever. Getting dueling fighting style, archery fighting style, or defensive fighting style, plus second wind and action surge can be a pretty strong argument. The ASI gets pushed back a level, but that also means getting closer to extra attack sooner.
It's a give and take and clearly those "duds" are too high of a cost for what is important for Samuel's rogues. I'm sure they're are plenty of people that can't fit more than a couple of fighter levels into the same general concept because they emphasize different aspects of game play.
I was slyly concurring with you on your assessment of those levels Glimpse.
Jhffan, you are not wrong either, sometimes they don't fit for what someone has in mind thematically or mechanically. Every character and player is a wee bit different, but they are all useful abilities especially with the sneak attack die increases every other level in conjunction with some good features.
I can see that as all, but I was mainly commenting on them being "duds" when they are all very useful features.
I guess "duds" is the wrong word, I just find more value in going fighter after lvl 5. Expertise is ok, but I already had a helping of it for my 2 favorite skills, and evasion can be good but it is fairly situational, might not come up at all, and if it does it might not matter much.
Compare that to fighter- gain proficiency with every weapon and armor, a fighting style, second wind, action surge, and a bigger hit die per level. All great stuff complementing the rogue. At lvl 8 you then get to stack a fighter archetype on your rogue which I think is better than an asi.
No point in turning back, I plow ahead to the extra attack and beyond.
I understand that, everyone is different and how they play. In the campaigns I run and play in, Evasion comes up quite a lot so if I'm playing a Rogue I always plan to take that personally.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Currently playing a Battlemaster Fighter that uses two scimitars as weapons. I'm level 5 already and I was going over my plans for multiclassing rogue. My original idea way back when I started making this character was to go 11 into Battlemaster Fighter and 9 into Scout Rogue. I'm worried that going too far into Rogue may hurt me in the end when I miss out on Fighter things.
I think the benefit of that many levels into Scout Rogue would be that I'd be gaining stronger sneak attack (5d6), evasion, uncanny dodge, expertise, and scout will provide 10 extra movement speed + the ability to use a reaction to reposition (I have the Sentinel feat, so that may benefit me if I want to get myself into a better position) The downside being I will be left with only two extra attacks, one action surge, one use of indomitable, and I'll miss out on two additional maneuvers and a superiority die (I could make up for those by picking up the Martial Adept feat, though.) My superiority dice would also be stuck at d10s instead of 12s, and I'd miss out on Relentless (which I'm not too bothered with missing because I'm sparing with my maneuver uses.)
Am I going to heavy on Rogue levels? If so, how far do you think I should tone it back to? I really don't think I hate pushing that hard on Rogue, but then again, I don't know if its worth the long term investment. LMK what you all think.
Edit: Now thinking about it, Assassin could be a better alternative to Scout. Scout gives a bit more mobility, but for some reason, I didn't look into Assassin's wild damaging abilities on top of a Fighter's extra attacks and action surge. If I went with this, would it still be worthwhile to go 9 levels in?
I'm no expert so I may be way off, but I'm not that impressed with Assassin after their initial ability to get advantage if the enemy hasn't taken its turn. The level 9 ability is more roleplay that can be done without this ability, or with charlatan background (although you're past that stage now) and depends on the type of game you are playing (not so useful dungeon crawling or RP-low groups, in my opinion).
As far as Scout or the level breakdown, I'm sorry I can't be more useful. If you are really into Assassin then some levels (maybe 7th level to get Evasion or 8th for ASI. But I might only stick with 4 level dip for Assassin 3rd level ability and the ASI at 4th) and the rest into Fighter.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
If you have a little charisma the swashbuckler could be a good option depending on how you currently play your fighter. Honestly most of the options will do well. Mastermind let's you use bonus actions to help other peoples attacks land if you don't need it for something else. Even going 5 levels is worth a lot from the rogue in particular. There isn't a single level I can say I don't like any of the abilities.
Something I just realized you should consider, sentinel requires your reaction to use as well. So you will have options on what to do with your reaction. If you get to level 5 with scout you will have three options for your reaction, sentinel, uncanny dodge, or skirmishes. Might be tough to decide when to use it. But could also be fun to gamble with it a little.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Think I've decided on 7 levels into Assassin. I don't think I'd use Skirmishes as my reaction enough to make it useful, plus our campaign is pretty complimentary to bonuses for surprises. Looking at Swashbuckler, though, has made me want to eventually do a full rogue swashbuckler character in the future lol.
Are you sure the campaign is going to go all the way to 20? Most end earlier and when might impact your choices.
Yeah, good point. It may be worth just taking three levels in rogue for a 2d6 sneak attack, subclass benefits, and cunning action as a little bonus. It would be nice to get to 5 and get uncanny dodge, but as a Battlemaster Fighter, I can Parry, so I have a very similar ability. That'll give me more Battlemaster benefits, plus an extra action surge and up to three indomitable uses. So early game, I'll have a two-weapon fighting attack, an extra attack, sneak attack, and assassin benefits if I stick with assassin. Then I can action surge if I want to, also.
If you do stick with assassin and want to spread the pain, using a Longbow or a Shortbow will help you take capitalize on the advantage offered by creatures that haven't had a turn yet. The range of either bow combined with your movement (potentially augmented by a cunning action dash) could give you up to 4 attacks at the start of combat if using your action surge would be beneficial. Sneak attack automatically attached to each of them and auto-crits if they are surprised with the added benefit that they don't have to be bunched to do it. Or you can go crossbow, hand lose some range for each additional attack but add the crossbow expert's bonus attack to get a fifth attack. That's somewhere between 12d6+dex mod×4 and 15d6+dex mod×5 with no crits (42+dex mod ×4 and 52.5+dex mod x5, with the longbow at 4d8+8d6+dex mod x4= 18+28==>46+dex mod ×4) with a decent chance to have at least one critical in there (8-10 rolls, expected critical on 5% of rolls means .4 or .5 crits would be expected. Assuming hits across, you could eliminate up to five smaller targets or focus fire a larger target down while remaining at range. You then have the option of drawing your melee weapon as your free interaction to prepare for melee if you choose (ready for OAs even), and then stowing your ranged weapon as part of your next turn if you need to for dueling stance or dropping it to draw your offhand weapon for two weapon fighting.
Only get one sneak attack in a turn, but with that many attacks you are pretty much going to get at least one hit out of it.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Lol fail. Good point. Still decent damage without that extra 4 to 6d6 in there.
Edit: just realized that you aren't told when you have to use the sneak attack. Thus, you could gamble and do a little crit fishing to maximize the sneak attack. It's certainly something that a champion/assassin would pull off more frequently.
Whenever I play a rogue I always end up going rogue 5/fighter X. Rogue 6,7 and 8 are such gigantic duds I just can't do it.
Rogue 6 Expertise
Rogue 7 Evasion
Rogue 8 ASI/ Feat
Duds?
No duds here boss. Just shiny gemstones. Honestly rogue is the hardest (or easiest since they are all good) class to pick a stopping point.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I know, I was questioning Samuel's comment on levels 6,7 and 8 being dud abilities for Rogues.
If they don't fit the character, I could see it. In a vacuum, they're great. But if the character doesn't want to be more proficient with some skills than the character already is, two levels of Rogue to get Evasion is quite the cost when you could be that much closer to whatever you're getting from fighter or whatever. Getting dueling fighting style, archery fighting style, or defensive fighting style, plus second wind and action surge can be a pretty strong argument. The ASI gets pushed back a level, but that also means getting closer to extra attack sooner.
It's a give and take and clearly those "duds" are too high of a cost for what is important for Samuel's rogues. I'm sure they're are plenty of people that can't fit more than a couple of fighter levels into the same general concept because they emphasize different aspects of game play.
I was slyly concurring with you on your assessment of those levels Glimpse.
Jhffan, you are not wrong either, sometimes they don't fit for what someone has in mind thematically or mechanically. Every character and player is a wee bit different, but they are all useful abilities especially with the sneak attack die increases every other level in conjunction with some good features.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I can see that as all, but I was mainly commenting on them being "duds" when they are all very useful features.
I guess "duds" is the wrong word, I just find more value in going fighter after lvl 5. Expertise is ok, but I already had a helping of it for my 2 favorite skills, and evasion can be good but it is fairly situational, might not come up at all, and if it does it might not matter much.
Compare that to fighter- gain proficiency with every weapon and armor, a fighting style, second wind, action surge, and a bigger hit die per level. All great stuff complementing the rogue. At lvl 8 you then get to stack a fighter archetype on your rogue which I think is better than an asi.
No point in turning back, I plow ahead to the extra attack and beyond.
I understand that, everyone is different and how they play. In the campaigns I run and play in, Evasion comes up quite a lot so if I'm playing a Rogue I always plan to take that personally.