I hadn't really thought about it until now, but why does Warlock only get these spells added to their list as potential spells to be learned instead of them being automatically known? I feel as if this feature of Warlock could've just been made similar to Cleric and some of the Druid subclasses, and I can't really think of a reason as to why it would be overpowered. Half of the reason I pick a patron would be for the spell list, after all, so it would be nice if your character just inherited them from their patron, leaving them free to use their small spell roster to fine-tune their role.
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Well if you count the magical secrets feature of bard, I think it about balances out, but then you would also have to consider the mystic arcanum of the warlock.
Even with the invocations though, I feel like its a bit paltry to make warlock use some of their spell roster for spells that you would probably want, considering that you chose that patron... Then again, for every "Shield" and "Banishing Smite" there's a "Destroy/Create Water" and "Plant Growth".
Either way, you make a fair point, I just had the random thought that it was weird for them to not automatically learn those spells
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Well if you count the magical secrets feature of bard, I think it about balances out, but then you would also have to consider the mystic arcanum of the warlock.
I counted both, With magical secrets, bards get 22 and with arcanums warlocks get 19, only lore bard's extra magical secrets gives you extra spell, regular magical secrets just lets you pick from other spell lists, it does not give you more spells known.
Well if you count the magical secrets feature of bard, I think it about balances out, but then you would also have to consider the mystic arcanum of the warlock.
I counted both, With magical secrets, bards get 22 and with arcanums warlocks get 19, only lore bard's extra magical secrets gives you extra spell, regular magical secrets just lets you pick from other spell lists, it does not give you more spells known.
The class features of bard specifically say that magical secrets adds the spells you pick to your total number of spells known.
By 10th level, you have plundered magical knowledge from a wide spectrum of disciplines. Choose two spells from any classes, including this one. A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip.
The chosen spells count as bard spells for you and are included in the number in the Spells Known column of the Bard table.
You learn two additional spells from any classes at 14th level and again at 18th level.
And well, that's besides the point, really. Why not just reduce Warlock's number of spells known and give it the class spells as spells it already knows? I guess that would kind of ruin the customization of the class some what. Maybe this is just my preference, but typically I take most of the pact spells added to my list of learnable spells. I might just be harping on a minor part because I like cleric and I see Warlock as a sort of parallel in some sense.
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Yes they are part of your total number known, compare it to
Additional Magical Secrets
At 6th level, you learn two spells of your choice from any class. A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip. The chosen spells count as bard spells for you but don’t count against the number of bard spells you know.
Meaning regular bards get 22 with magical secrets (it is already included in the table for spells known) while lore bards get 24.
And well, that's besides the point, really. Why not just reduce Warlock's number of spells known and give it the class spells as spells it already knows? I guess that would kind of ruin the customization of the class some what. Maybe this is just my preference, but typically I take most of the pact spells added to my list of learnable spells. I might just be harping on a minor part because I like cleric and I see Warlock as a sort of parallel in some sense.
Because people who want those spells can pick those spell and those who don't then don't. doing what you proposed would just shaft the latter for no real reason.
Also the reason cleric gets so many spells prepared is because they spell list is much less versatile than the arcane casters.
I hadn't really thought about it until now, but why does Warlock only get these spells added to their list as potential spells to be learned instead of them being automatically known? I feel as if this feature of Warlock could've just been made similar to Cleric and some of the Druid subclasses, and I can't really think of a reason as to why it would be overpowered. Half of the reason I pick a patron would be for the spell list, after all, so it would be nice if your character just inherited them from their patron, leaving them free to use their small spell roster to fine-tune their role.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Warlock already gets 19 spell minimum that is only 3 less than the bard, and is an incredibly versatile class thanks to invocations.
Not to mention it would only make the 1-3 level warlock dip even more potent.
Well if you count the magical secrets feature of bard, I think it about balances out, but then you would also have to consider the mystic arcanum of the warlock.
Even with the invocations though, I feel like its a bit paltry to make warlock use some of their spell roster for spells that you would probably want, considering that you chose that patron... Then again, for every "Shield" and "Banishing Smite" there's a "Destroy/Create Water" and "Plant Growth".
Either way, you make a fair point, I just had the random thought that it was weird for them to not automatically learn those spells
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
I counted both, With magical secrets, bards get 22 and with arcanums warlocks get 19, only lore bard's extra magical secrets gives you extra spell, regular magical secrets just lets you pick from other spell lists, it does not give you more spells known.
The class features of bard specifically say that magical secrets adds the spells you pick to your total number of spells known.
And well, that's besides the point, really. Why not just reduce Warlock's number of spells known and give it the class spells as spells it already knows? I guess that would kind of ruin the customization of the class some what. Maybe this is just my preference, but typically I take most of the pact spells added to my list of learnable spells. I might just be harping on a minor part because I like cleric and I see Warlock as a sort of parallel in some sense.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Yes they are part of your total number known, compare it to
Meaning regular bards get 22 with magical secrets (it is already included in the table for spells known) while lore bards get 24.