Nice, they give out the poisoned condition without a save, but only on their melee attack.

I hate this new design methodology of just tossing out saves against powerful status effects that disproportionally affects martials, you know the ones in melee and actually making attack rolls...

don't worry, this just means rogues are going to be in absolute hell since poisoned means permanent disadvantage so no sneak attacks. But its not like they gave every single high CR monster insane initiative to the point where even the assassin rogue is unlikely to ever go first right????........

Players have so many ways to get Advantage, this isn't the biggest deal. Just play with the monsters 1st, pls?

Quote from GrunTheBitter >>

Playets have so many ways to get Advantage, this isn't the biggest deal. Just play with the monsters 1st, pls?

 Having just run a drow focused campaign that literally made my 2024 rogue change character out of frustration because of all the damn poison, I think I can speak that poison gets annoying as hell. And at least the Drow ones had a saving throw not automatic. Advantage and disadvantage cancel out meaning still no sneak attack, which is the whole point of the class. Sure you can do the whole standing next to your teammate, but that relies on turn order to be just right, the battlefield to accommodate you, and for your teammate to be a melee class that has high enough initiative to make this work in the first place, which is frankly not a guarantee. I quite literally gave the rogue a ring that just said you have permanent advantage, and he was still found it miserable because the poison cancelled it out and every single Drow has poison. On the Brightside this poison only lasts 1 turn whereas drow lasted I think an hour, but this one has no saving throw. Getting advantage has always been super easy, thats nothing new. The issue is that disadvantage was usually pretty rare. Now, just about every devil just auto poisons, the Ghast Gravecaller is hilariously broken in melee with auto paralysis and causes automatic fear at range again with no save, and many other monster automatically give disadvantage though only to melee combatants pretty much. its not even once per turn so it can just poison all martials in the party, good luck hitting when you all have disadvantage. I am fine with giving out disadvantage but at least make it a high DC not just automatic.

And from an in-game perspective, how the hell does 6 second poison even work? like, is it described as temporary nausea that passes in the blink of an eye? I get the mechanical part of it, but it feels like they just needed a reason to give disadvantage but didn't want to just say "Gives disadvantage" so said poison instead.

Quote from theron >>

Quote from GrunTheBitter >>

Playets have so many ways to get Advantage, this isn't the biggest deal. Just play with the monsters 1st, pls?

 Having just run a drow focused campaign that literally made my 2024 rogue change character out of frustration because of all the damn poison, I think I can speak that poison gets annoying as hell. And at least the Drow ones had a saving throw not automatic. Advantage and disadvantage cancel out meaning still no sneak attack, which is the whole point of the class. Sure you can do the whole standing next to your teammate, but that relies on turn order to be just right, the battlefield to accommodate you, and for your teammate to be a melee class that has high enough initiative to make this work in the first place, which is frankly not a guarantee. I quite literally gave the rogue a ring that just said you have permanent advantage, and he was still found it miserable because the poison cancelled it out and every single Drow has poison. On the Brightside this poison only lasts 1 turn whereas drow lasted I think an hour, but this one has no saving throw. Getting advantage has always been super easy, thats nothing new. The issue is that disadvantage was usually pretty rare. Now, just about every devil just auto poisons, the Ghast Gravecaller is hilariously broken in melee with auto paralysis and causes automatic fear at range again with no save, and many other monster automatically give disadvantage though only to melee combatants pretty much. its not even once per turn so it can just poison all martials in the party, good luck hitting when you all have disadvantage. I am fine with giving out disadvantage but at least make it a high DC not just automatic.

And from an in-game perspective, how the hell does 6 second poison even work? like, is it described as temporary nausea that passes in the blink of an eye? I get the mechanical part of it, but it feels like they just needed a reason to give disadvantage but didn't want to just say "Gives disadvantage" so said poison instead.

First, it's malpractice to design monsters around rogues' ability to get Sneak Attack each turn. That's just completely ridiculous. But it's also a non-issue. First, Assassins are not common foes, and it's okay for a monster to be difficult for a character or party to deal with easily or be highly effective against (the horror!). So, martial characters can rest easy knowing that they won't have to face Assassins' poisoned blades all the time. Second, the poison effect is contingent on a hit (+7 to hit). It's not guaranteed, and it only lasts until the start of the Assassin's next turn. Third, even you must recognize that your personal experiences and grievances (taking you at your word) cannot inform the design process for a game played by millions. Assassins are quite literally meant and expected to provide this sort of challenge. Fourth, you should trust your DM (or, if you are a DM, stop being obtuse) to not ruin your fun by throwing enemies at you that aren't fun to combat. Fifth, monsters aren't the only ones that can use poison. If you poison them, then they have a harder time hitting you too. That's how the game works!

And lastly, just enjoy things. Don't look for things to be angry about. Engage with monster options in good faith.

I have a question for this and the bandit crime Lord and similar stat blocks, love the changes that make them simpler to run, but how are other DMs handling the poisons that these NPCs clearly would have on them without making it game breaking for your party to inherit a bunch of poison that's this strong?

My temporary solution has been based on their investigation check. Either some or all of the vials got broken when the assassin died, or they used the last of it, or the party gets some of the poison left. 

Just think it's weird that they went through all the effort of giving items that NPCs have on them and almost nothing that uses poison in their damage has poison on them 

Gonnddsdfsdfsdff

damage resistance, initiative expertise, 3-hit multiattack, sneak attack on every hit without prerequisites? ...i want "NPC Assassin" as a rogue subclass

Again first of all I love the artwork of this enemy. 

For thats thats quite the buff to the basic one i would say. Higher ac way better ini. (What i expect of an assassin) I dont know if more hp were necessary but ok. An even better dex and int. For the naughty saves. 

Sadly lost his deceiption but other skills got buffed sobi guess its fine. 

It lost its assassination feat but piling up what it got its more than fair. It hits better and deals more dmg. 1 attack more and option to attack ranged multiple times. And has cunning action now.

That is a glow up. For the comments about the poison i must agree with the latest ones. Its an assassin, it should be able to be a pain for a group of adventurers. Yes it counters the rogue whicj makes sense. They are vasically rogues themselves and know what they could do. Also its not like you would encounter a whole group of them. In my opinion thats a solo traveling enemy, maybe with the goal to assassinate 1 group member. Yes its annoying with the poison but as menrioned by others. If a player gets frustrated then dont use so many poison enemys. There are a lot of creatures out there.

That said i love the new assassin. For me i only hate the poison resistance (why should he have that in general) but overall a nice rework i will love to use one or two times. It feels way more than a skilled fighter who can threaten ones life

Quote from Littlesakuga96 >>

For me i only hate the poison resistance (why should he have that in general)

 It represents him working with poison, and that in real life, you can be resistant to poison

Quote from theron >>

Quote from GrunTheBitter >>

Playets have so many ways to get Advantage, this isn't the biggest deal. Just play with the monsters 1st, pls?

 Having just run a drow focused campaign that literally made my 2024 rogue change character out of frustration because of all the damn poison, I think I can speak that poison gets annoying as hell. And at least the Drow ones had a saving throw not automatic. Advantage and disadvantage cancel out meaning still no sneak attack, which is the whole point of the class. Sure you can do the whole standing next to your teammate, but that relies on turn order to be just right, the battlefield to accommodate you, and for your teammate to be a melee class that has high enough initiative to make this work in the first place, which is frankly not a guarantee. I quite literally gave the rogue a ring that just said you have permanent advantage, and he was still found it miserable because the poison cancelled it out and every single Drow has poison. On the Brightside this poison only lasts 1 turn whereas drow lasted I think an hour, but this one has no saving throw. Getting advantage has always been super easy, thats nothing new. The issue is that disadvantage was usually pretty rare. Now, just about every devil just auto poisons, the Ghast Gravecaller is hilariously broken in melee with auto paralysis and causes automatic fear at range again with no save, and many other monster automatically give disadvantage though only to melee combatants pretty much. its not even once per turn so it can just poison all martials in the party, good luck hitting when you all have disadvantage. I am fine with giving out disadvantage but at least make it a high DC not just automatic.

And from an in-game perspective, how the hell does 6 second poison even work? like, is it described as temporary nausea that passes in the blink of an eye? I get the mechanical part of it, but it feels like they just needed a reason to give disadvantage but didn't want to just say "Gives disadvantage" so said poison instead.

 antitoxin

I would make the poison on their sword a DC 15 Constitution save, hence making it easier for melee classes to deal with them.

I dont like the twisted logic of many people around here who think stronger = better.

When no. This is not the case. More flavor = better. And in 2024 (this one is far from being the worst about that), it seems like everything should be a giant: brrr i have big hp brr i deal huge damage. Ironically, giants are among the fiew statblocks were i think the 2024 versions are strictly better (tough i would give save to some of their effects).

The removal of saves on attack effects is just toxic. When a lich is better paralysis locking the barbarian than i dont know, use spells, thats what i call fricking horrible design. If i play against dnd 2024 creatures  i will powerbuild just to get over it, not having fun. And it just does not make any sense for me that some rando are better at inflicting effects with an attack than a spellcaster using a spell designed for that.

Quote from VersusChaos >>

I dont like the twisted logic of many people around here who think stronger = better.

When no. This is not the case. More flavor = better. And in 2024 (this one is far from being the worst about that), it seems like everything should be a giant: brrr i have big hp brr i deal huge damage. Ironically, giants are among the fiew statblocks were i think the 2024 versions are strictly better (tough i would give save to some of their effects).

The removal of saves on attack effects is just toxic. When a lich is better paralysis locking the barbarian than i dont know, use spells, thats what i call fricking horrible design. If i play against dnd 2024 creatures  i will powerbuild just to get over it, not having fun. And it just does not make any sense for me that some rando are better at inflicting effects with an attack than a spellcaster using a spell designed for that.

 Flavour isn’t exactly good either if they die before they can even act, what would you like? For your cool assassin built up over the course of several sessions to die instantly or for them to actually stand a round or two?

Although I do agree with them on why it’s bad to remote saves from the more devastating effects like Paralysis or Stuns, yes the Lich is CR 21 but just because it’s meant to be hard doesn’t mean it should say to the martials to go suck it.