As I mentioned, I had to go to twitch's website to use the facebook login system, which they could at least have included as an option here.
That strikes me as some really valuable feedback - it's about ease of use and actually I'd have thought it's fairly simple to add the functionality to DNDB to "create a new account using Facebook". Yes, it would still be a Twitch account in the background, but actually, it seems that obfuscating that it's a Twitch account would be just fine.
I already had a twitch account, so was really simple for me to just hit authorise.
As I mentioned, I had to go to twitch's website to use the facebook login system, which they could at least have included as an option here.
That strikes me as some really valuable feedback - it's about ease of use and actually I'd have thought it's fairly simple to add the functionality to DNDB to "create a new account using Facebook". Yes, it would still be a Twitch account in the background, but actually, it seems that obfuscating that it's a Twitch account would be just fine.
I already had a twitch account, so was really simple for me to just hit authorise.
Are you a software developer?
Since I was 14 yeah, studied Software Engineering at University, so about 30 years of experience. These days I mostly do Project Management, but still do some coding projects myself on the side. :)
Anyways, just throwing in some ideas that may not have been thought of, rather than telling the devs what they should do.
As I mentioned, I had to go to twitch's website to use the facebook login system, which they could at least have included as an option here.
That strikes me as some really valuable feedback - it's about ease of use and actually I'd have thought it's fairly simple to add the functionality to DNDB to "create a new account using Facebook". Yes, it would still be a Twitch account in the background, but actually, it seems that obfuscating that it's a Twitch account would be just fine.
I already had a twitch account, so was really simple for me to just hit authorise.
Are you a software developer?
Since I was 14 yeah, studied Software Engineering at University, so about 30 years of experience. These days I mostly do Project Management, but still do some coding projects myself on the side. :)
Anyways, just throwing in some ideas that may not have been thought of, rather than telling the devs what they should do.
Good to hear :) It's a bit of a pet peeve when people who know nothing about software dev say things like "it can't be that hard"
I must say that impressive though, learning to code at 14 is challenge at the best of times and I imagine the late 1980's didn't exactly have the friendliest of languages or interfaces!
Tell me about it - I share the same pet peeve my friend, which is why I recognised that and didn't make a sarcastic response, lol. :)
It was about 1984 I started learning to code BASIC on a ZX Spectrum, then moved on to assembly code on a Commodore 64.
No internet to look stuff up - I sometimes wonder just how crazy I must have been back then. There was a reference manual for the ASM though at the city library, so I made notes from that. Finally got into C++ at Uni in 1989. Well, when I wasn't at the guild bar, or playing the arcade games. :D
A books-and-tabletop in-person game has nothing to do with a video game streaming service.
I couldn't care less if it's your product and in a shared database or not - it is really jarring. It makes no sense.
I'm sure it solves some problems, or accomplishes some internal metrics, or whatever - I do software for a living too, I know the game. But the way it is done now is INTERNALLY focused rather than being CUSTOMER centric.
Well to be fair to Dungeons & Dragons and all other Role playing Games that are using online services to connect player. I would think TTRPG being streamed online is fine. As long as the community remains non-toxic and people are able to find games to play. There are also plenty of streams on twitch that are not just roll20 or fantasy grounds but people using the "vintage" method of pencil and paper, and a table, and books, and dice, and dm screen.
It's interesting, reading back through the many pages of this thread, that the discussion seems to break down to:
"I have a reason to dislike Twitch and do not wish to interact with it - I don't want to have to create a Twitch account, to be able to access DnD Beyond."
"I don't mind Twitch. I understand that DnD Beyond is a Curse product and Curse is owned by Twitch, so it makes sense to me."
In many ways, it's not surprising that this is going around in circles.
People stating (1) seem to be basing this on how they feel about Twitch. This seems, for the majority, an emotional response to Twitch when they only expected a WotC DnD product.
People stating (2) seem to be basing this on a lack of emotional response about Twitch. The reason that the product is owned by Twitch therefore seems reasonable to them.
It reminds me of an old argument example I learned about waaay back in debating class:
"The sky is blue - how can you not see that?"
"What are you talking about? The grass is clearly green!"
"You moron. It's blue - the sky is factually and provably BLUE!"
"*sigh* I don't know why I keep trying to explain to you that the grass is green. It's obvious to anyone who looks at it...."
I'm not sure how this is resolved. I know that the other Curse websites I use have all switched to using Twitch login and merged my old accounts there into my Twitch account, so that indicates to me a Twitch policy to have a common authentication across all products.
Maybe an approach involves understanding why people feel an animosity to Twitch and appealing to that? There are many reasons given through this thread.
I'm not sure how this is resolved. I know that the other Curse websites I use have all switched to using Twitch login and merged my old accounts there into my Twitch account, so that indicates to me a Twitch policy to have a common authentication across all products.
Dnd is a pen and paper game. Curse is harming themselves, if they can't find a way to appeal to that group. This thread represents push-back, and feedback on an (arguably) bad policy that will be very integral to the success of beyond as a platform (can it achieve widespread adoption and penetration, will anyone actually use it) HOWEVER, this is not a problem for the beta-testers to solve. This is a problem that curse needs to be aware of, and a problem that they will need to solve for themselves. For every person who posted in this thread, something to the effect of "I created an account, just to inform you that I don't want to create an account" that voice represents 10 others who won't create an account that they don't want, at all. Why would they? They don't like twitch. It's inconvenient for them to voice that opinion to you.
That is a lot of resistance to the idea (considering the size of the DND community, the size of the beta and the size of this thread), and that resistance should be taken seriously, whether that means offering other avenues (like google account support on android,) or allowing "layered" curse/twitch user profiles that map to each-other across ecosystems but aren't apparently connected (appeasement) or whether that means simply ingoring the detractors and taking the standard corporate, "take it or leave it" approach. All that is simply a business decision that Curse/Twitch will make for themselves. However, AS A BETA TESTER, I am telling you right now, that I will not use the finished product if I have to login to twitch, or any other service in order to play a game in my head. No. I'll stick to printing off my monster sheets and characters, and bringing them with me.
I'm not sure how this is resolved. I know that the other Curse websites I use have all switched to using Twitch login and merged my old accounts there into my Twitch account, so that indicates to me a Twitch policy to have a common authentication across all products.
Dnd is a pen and paper game. Curse is harming themselves, if they can't find a way to appeal to that group. This thread represents push-back, and feedback on an (arguably) bad policy that will be very integral to the success of beyond as a platform (can it achieve widespread adoption and penetration, will anyone actually use it) HOWEVER, this is not a problem for the beta-testers to solve. This is a problem that curse needs to be aware of, and a problem that they will need to solve for themselves. For every person who posted in this thread, something to the effect of "I created an account, just to inform you that I don't want to create an account" that voice represents 10 others who won't create an account that they don't want, at all. Why would they? They don't like twitch. It's inconvenient for them to voice that opinion to you.
That is a lot of resistance to the idea (considering the size of the DND community, the size of the beta and the size of this thread), and that resistance should be taken seriously, whether that means offering other avenues (like google account support on android,) or allowing "layered" curse/twitch user profiles that map to each-other across ecosystems but aren't apparently connected (appeasement) or whether that means simply ingoring the detractors and taking the standard corporate, "take it or leave it" approach. All that is simply a business decision that Curse/Twitch will make for themselves. However, AS A BETA TESTER, I am telling you right now, that I will not use the finished product if I have to login to twitch, or any other service in order to play a game in my head. No. I'll stick to printing off my monster sheets and characters, and bringing them with me.
So no Twitch account but you'd sign up for just some arbitrary D&D account? Cause you'd still need some account!
An account for authentication is for authentication. It is it telling you how you have to play it is just a way to authenticate you are who you say you are, geez.
I receive updates via email and this thread is the only one consistently updated which is sad.
You getting mad cause of the sign on's BRAND?! Seriously?!
This is targeted to anyone and everyone that doesn't want any login at all.
Bottom Line Up Front: If you don't want to log into it, then this isn't a product for you.
You will have to log in, regardless of HOW you log in, you will have to log in. The login will determine what access rights you have to the content held within the database. This is a digital tool to assist in playing a pen and paper game. It isn't required to play the game at all. Because some features of this database will cost, you will need some sort of authentication process to determine authorization to access information. If you want something you don't have to log into at all then this product isn't for you.
In addition, I don't see what the big deal is at all. Is it because people don't realize that curse is twitch is amazon? Is it because they don't want to create an account to twitch? The answer to the former is just to put the small logos on the landing page so that becomes obvious. The answer to the latter is, why does that matter. If you don't go to twitch, don't go to twitch, just use it for DDB; nothing is requiring you to use twitch now that you have an account. If the problem you have that you have to log in to anything then there is no fix. The way this site will work requires a login, full stop. Most of what I have seen is "I don't like it" with no real constructive reasons as to why, which is some silly sounding stuff.
This is so much ado about nothing Shakespeare is going to sue for copyright infringement.
I'm not sure how this is resolved. I know that the other Curse websites I use have all switched to using Twitch login and merged my old accounts there into my Twitch account, so that indicates to me a Twitch policy to have a common authentication across all products.
Dnd is a pen and paper game. Curse is harming themselves, if they can't find a way to appeal to that group. This thread represents push-back, and feedback on an (arguably) bad policy that will be very integral to the success of beyond as a platform (can it achieve widespread adoption and penetration, will anyone actually use it) HOWEVER, this is not a problem for the beta-testers to solve. This is a problem that curse needs to be aware of, and a problem that they will need to solve for themselves. For every person who posted in this thread, something to the effect of "I created an account, just to inform you that I don't want to create an account" that voice represents 10 others who won't create an account that they don't want, at all. Why would they? They don't like twitch. It's inconvenient for them to voice that opinion to you.
That is a lot of resistance to the idea (considering the size of the DND community, the size of the beta and the size of this thread), and that resistance should be taken seriously, whether that means offering other avenues (like google account support on android,) or allowing "layered" curse/twitch user profiles that map to each-other across ecosystems but aren't apparently connected (appeasement) or whether that means simply ingoring the detractors and taking the standard corporate, "take it or leave it" approach. All that is simply a business decision that Curse/Twitch will make for themselves. However, AS A BETA TESTER, I am telling you right now, that I will not use the finished product if I have to login to twitch, or any other service in order to play a game in my head. No. I'll stick to printing off my monster sheets and characters, and bringing them with me.
So no Twitch account but you'd sign up for just some arbitrary D&D account? Cause you'd still need some account!
An account for authentication is for authentication. It is it telling you how you have to play it is just a way to authenticate you are who you say you are, geez.
I receive updates via email and this thread is the only one consistently updated which is sad.
You getting mad cause of the sign on's BRAND?! Seriously?!
Now youre getting it, a lot of people HATE curse, count me as one of them.
I (for one) don't even so much hate Twitch or Curse as associate Twitch with a half-assed product... that and a half-assed product that I've used so infrequently that I took three days of not wanting to bother going through the password recovery for a product that gave me doubts by asking me for a Twitch account. Now that I'm here (and can log in via FB, though the option wasn't listed here), I'm happy with what I've seen of the product but consider it worth the warning that *I waited three days* to try a product **for free** because Twitch made me assume the worst and was also an inconvenience in itself. Those who think that's petty don't understand marketing. The audience is warning, during the beta, that Twitch's brand is inappropriate for this product and *will* damage the market share, which will be a damn shame, as this is the *official* app. This isn't Twitch-haters complaining about Twitch; it's beta-testers who love a product trying to warn the company not to shoot itself in the foot.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Tell me about it - I share the same pet peeve my friend, which is why I recognised that and didn't make a sarcastic response, lol. :)
It was about 1984 I started learning to code BASIC on a ZX Spectrum, then moved on to assembly code on a Commodore 64.
No internet to look stuff up - I sometimes wonder just how crazy I must have been back then. There was a reference manual for the ASM though at the city library, so I made notes from that. Finally got into C++ at Uni in 1989. Well, when I wasn't at the guild bar, or playing the arcade games. :D
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
A books-and-tabletop in-person game has nothing to do with a video game streaming service.
I couldn't care less if it's your product and in a shared database or not - it is really jarring. It makes no sense.
I'm sure it solves some problems, or accomplishes some internal metrics, or whatever - I do software for a living too, I know the game. But the way it is done now is INTERNALLY focused rather than being CUSTOMER centric.
I hope you are working on a better way.
Old school knowledge / without all the baggage
Well to be fair to Dungeons & Dragons and all other Role playing Games that are using online services to connect player. I would think TTRPG being streamed online is fine. As long as the community remains non-toxic and people are able to find games to play. There are also plenty of streams on twitch that are not just roll20 or fantasy grounds but people using the "vintage" method of pencil and paper, and a table, and books, and dice, and dm screen.
It's interesting, reading back through the many pages of this thread, that the discussion seems to break down to:
In many ways, it's not surprising that this is going around in circles.
People stating (1) seem to be basing this on how they feel about Twitch. This seems, for the majority, an emotional response to Twitch when they only expected a WotC DnD product.
People stating (2) seem to be basing this on a lack of emotional response about Twitch. The reason that the product is owned by Twitch therefore seems reasonable to them.
It reminds me of an old argument example I learned about waaay back in debating class:
"The sky is blue - how can you not see that?"
"What are you talking about? The grass is clearly green!"
"You moron. It's blue - the sky is factually and provably BLUE!"
"*sigh* I don't know why I keep trying to explain to you that the grass is green. It's obvious to anyone who looks at it...."
I'm not sure how this is resolved. I know that the other Curse websites I use have all switched to using Twitch login and merged my old accounts there into my Twitch account, so that indicates to me a Twitch policy to have a common authentication across all products.
Maybe an approach involves understanding why people feel an animosity to Twitch and appealing to that? There are many reasons given through this thread.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Dnd is a pen and paper game. Curse is harming themselves, if they can't find a way to appeal to that group. This thread represents push-back, and feedback on an (arguably) bad policy that will be very integral to the success of beyond as a platform (can it achieve widespread adoption and penetration, will anyone actually use it) HOWEVER, this is not a problem for the beta-testers to solve. This is a problem that curse needs to be aware of, and a problem that they will need to solve for themselves. For every person who posted in this thread, something to the effect of "I created an account, just to inform you that I don't want to create an account" that voice represents 10 others who won't create an account that they don't want, at all. Why would they? They don't like twitch. It's inconvenient for them to voice that opinion to you.
That is a lot of resistance to the idea (considering the size of the DND community, the size of the beta and the size of this thread), and that resistance should be taken seriously, whether that means offering other avenues (like google account support on android,) or allowing "layered" curse/twitch user profiles that map to each-other across ecosystems but aren't apparently connected (appeasement) or whether that means simply ingoring the detractors and taking the standard corporate, "take it or leave it" approach. All that is simply a business decision that Curse/Twitch will make for themselves. However, AS A BETA TESTER, I am telling you right now, that I will not use the finished product if I have to login to twitch, or any other service in order to play a game in my head. No. I'll stick to printing off my monster sheets and characters, and bringing them with me.
A tauren in a big Browncoat.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I (for one) don't even so much hate Twitch or Curse as associate Twitch with a half-assed product... that and a half-assed product that I've used so infrequently that I took three days of not wanting to bother going through the password recovery for a product that gave me doubts by asking me for a Twitch account. Now that I'm here (and can log in via FB, though the option wasn't listed here), I'm happy with what I've seen of the product but consider it worth the warning that *I waited three days* to try a product **for free** because Twitch made me assume the worst and was also an inconvenience in itself. Those who think that's petty don't understand marketing. The audience is warning, during the beta, that Twitch's brand is inappropriate for this product and *will* damage the market share, which will be a damn shame, as this is the *official* app. This isn't Twitch-haters complaining about Twitch; it's beta-testers who love a product trying to warn the company not to shoot itself in the foot.
Hi SeanMacConMara ,
thank you, that's useful information that provides opinion and details of the difficulty encountered.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I don't know why you could not have just used your WOTC account..that would have at least made sense.