Not really if you consider that to do those things with individual per class sub-classes that works out to be multiple sub-classes needed to be created that would essentially be much the sam.
... Yes there is no reason you can't make a swashbuckler clonoe for any combat class but really it comes to a point of why. If you want to be a swashbuckler just suck it up and play a rogue. I know this sounds jaded but if there was a version of swashbuckler for each other combat type class it would eventually end up being there is one PROPER choice of swashbuckler, all the other options would be inferior for one reason or another. ...
How about for the fun or it (the entire point of playing RPGs), and/or options to make a more holistic setting. While you could play a Rogue, it wont give you multiple attacks, or heavy armour use (without crippling yourself) that a Fighter can bring to the table, or the exploration skills and abilities that a Ranger can bring. The Harpers are an organisation that has long had it's type of training despite having a huge variety of classes within their midst. Something akin to a subclass can add a lot of mechanical weight and setting flavour to that organisation.
There is never one PROPER way to make things (especially in D&D), it is about making what you enjoy, saying there is something proper is akin to saying "your fun is wrong".
Lets face it, if there wasn't a point in having options, why would the D&D developers even bother with multiple variants on the same core aspect. I mean there would be no point at all to have Sorcerers, Wizards, Warlocks and even Bards, Druids and Clerics as they are all simply variants on a spell caster, they could have simply had the "fighting class" or the "casting class" and maybe a "skills class" though the other two could do that too. We would all be playing clones of early D&D if more options weren't desired.
Sure you may not like the options, but it is not just about you.
I'm not desperate for this, but I think it would be cool to get a 5e version of the Binder class from 3.5's Tome of Magic. Might not even need to be a full class, I could imagine Binder as an archetype for the Warlock, maybe even for Wizard or Cleric.
I'm not desperate for this, but I think it would be cool to get a 5e version of the Binder class from 3.5's Tome of Magic. Might not even need to be a full class, I could imagine Binder as an archetype for the Warlock, maybe even for Wizard or Cleric.
I love that class! I know on DMs Guild there are some versions out there both as base class and as Warlock archetype.
I have actually played around a bit with a base class, mostly because I really prefer "spiritual conversions" rather than direct conversions. A lot of conversions to 5e figure out how to create the exact abilities in that system, and that's fine for those who want it. But I like using the 5e rules to better explore the concept/spirit of the class. Like the Binder class I am toying with isn't just "can swap out abilities" but cranks up the "explorer of occult and forgotten knowledge" aspect with things like Expertise in Arcana or History, etc. I would LOVE an official version, but most likely they'd do like in 4e and just make it a warlock variant even though (in my opinion that no one asked for :) ), that would be like making barbarians and rangers just be fighter archetypes. Sure you could squeeze in the basic idea, but it would miss a lot of the basic idea.
Oh, and in other news, anyone pick a "Tome of Foes" for what they want in 2018? :) More info Monday at the widespread announcement, but they snuck a peak in the Fireside Chat.
Another thing I would like to see is the elimination or revision of the "heal completely with a long rest" mechanic. Talk about an OP mechanic.
I'm a 1E veteran from back in the day, and it seems 5E has over-simplified/hand waved a few things.
Poison can't kill you outright anymore, you can't go below 0 hp, and you get 3 death saves...It's actually hard to die in 5E.
In 1E, your actions were meaningful because death was around every corner. In 5E, there are too many safety nets. You can make a series of bad decisions, and still walk away in one piece.
All the focus on a background story is generally a good thing. But in my experience with 5E so far, most backgrounds are forgotten/become irrelevant fairly quickly. So, it's a waste of time to spend more than a few minutes on them. I remember my first 5E campaign, the DM insisted that the layers spend substantial time and effort creating detailed backgrounds, only to ignore them (except for one of the players) a few sessions in.
My current DM is doing a much better job in this regard but after the 8th session, I can see the emphasis start to fade.
Another thing I would like to see is the elimination or revision of the "heal completely with a long rest" mechanic. Talk about an OP mechanic.
Every time I see people say this, I wonder exactly how often a situation comes up at their table in which the players choose to rest up, but doesn't actually rest however long (or in whatever way, should it come to using items/spells to reduce the time needed) it takes to be functionally equivalent to the 5th edition rules.
Because my experience has always been that when the party finally decides "okay, that's all we can do for now, time to start a rest" the next thing that gets played out is an encounter with the party at full power - so the only difference is whether the narrative is "...two weeks later..." or "...the next day...", not any difference in the power level of the characters relative to the challenges they face.
Another thing I would like to see is the elimination or revision of the "heal completely with a long rest" mechanic. Talk about an OP mechanic.
I'm a 1E veteran from back in the day, and it seems 5E has over-simplified/hand waved a few things.
Poison can't kill you outright anymore, you can't go below 0 hp, and you get 3 death saves...It's actually hard to die in 5E.
In 1E, your actions were meaningful because death was around every corner. In 5E, there are too many safety nets. You can make a series of bad decisions, and still walk away in one piece.
All the focus on a background story is generally a good thing. But in my experience with 5E so far, most backgrounds are forgotten/become irrelevant fairly quickly. So, it's a waste of time to spend more than a few minutes on them. I remember my first 5E campaign, the DM insisted that the layers spend substantial time and effort creating detailed backgrounds, only to ignore them (except for one of the players) a few sessions in.
My current DM is doing a much better job in this regard but after the 8th session, I can see the emphasis start to fade.
Truth be told, there are optional rules in the DMG in this regard. Specifically, the Slow Natural Healing and the Healer's Kit dependency. The former lets the character use the Hit Dice to regain hit points during a long rest (no full healing), the latter says i is mandatory to use Healer's Kits to spend Hit Dice.
Another thing I would like to see is the elimination or revision of the "heal completely with a long rest" mechanic. Talk about an OP mechanic.
I'm a 1E veteran from back in the day, and it seems 5E has over-simplified/hand waved a few things.
Poison can't kill you outright anymore, you can't go below 0 hp, and you get 3 death saves...It's actually hard to die in 5E.
In 1E, your actions were meaningful because death was around every corner. In 5E, there are too many safety nets. You can make a series of bad decisions, and still walk away in one piece.
All the focus on a background story is generally a good thing. But in my experience with 5E so far, most backgrounds are forgotten/become irrelevant fairly quickly. So, it's a waste of time to spend more than a few minutes on them. I remember my first 5E campaign, the DM insisted that the layers spend substantial time and effort creating detailed backgrounds, only to ignore them (except for one of the players) a few sessions in.
My current DM is doing a much better job in this regard but after the 8th session, I can see the emphasis start to fade.
As a former 1e 2e and 3e player that completely changed to 5e and thinks the other editions sucked balls in that department. not to mention i literally almost kill my players every sessions because they either underestimate or i over estimate them. i can safely tell you, if you have trouble killing players in 5e, then i can safely tell you that it is your story that lacks the killing element.
also... why would poison kill one shot ? i have yet to see any poison in real life that can kill you outright by just touching it ? or heck even just slashing damage. there is always a few times, not to mention adrenaline that gets pumped and actually do things. but lets not get into real life poisons here... are you applying the poisonned conditions to people ? because if you are not, then it is exactly why your poison sucks. the poisonned conditions is exactly there for that so in any case you should use that more often.
as for myself... i have no problem killing my players if i want to. and i don't need poison for that to happen. also... when you are in a rush and your players suddently take 15 days to rest to get full healing... you try explaining why the bbeg just stood there and waited for them. or try to explain to them that they have to literally waste all abilities and ressources including their life before the bbeg fight just because you wanted to reduce them first. with 5e, these things becomes much easier to pull and players have a much better time accepting that ressources needs to be managed and that the game is made for that to happen. unlike previous editions where without a cleric or any form of healing, your players were just strickly dead. meaning they absolutely had a need for team composition and forcing players to play what they didn't wanna play. aka the healer of the group which nobody wanted.
sorry but i see much more bad then good in pretty much everything you said about 5e. to me it was the inverse, while i liked the pathfinder way of having consittution determining who dies or not. it was still way too low to be any good. i'd often kill players out of nowhere cause of a random crit, cause of a player at 15hp who had no choice but to fight and die knowing full well that was gonna happen. not to mention the number of player hwo just prayed for the next blow to miss. i ended up wanting my players to a better way of managing death. i'd have to agree that max hp isn't a way to add threshold... but so few little point as the -10 of 3e... sorry that was bullshit, still is today. and healing normally taking 1hp per day was so much bullshit.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Another thing I would like to see is the elimination or revision of the "heal completely with a long rest" mechanic. Talk about an OP mechanic.
Every time I see people say this, I wonder exactly how often a situation comes up at their table in which the players choose to rest up, but doesn't actually rest however long (or in whatever way, should it come to using items/spells to reduce the time needed) it takes to be functionally equivalent to the 5th edition rules.
Because my experience has always been that when the party finally decides "okay, that's all we can do for now, time to start a rest" the next thing that gets played out is an encounter with the party at full power - so the only difference is whether the narrative is "...two weeks later..." or "...the next day...", not any difference in the power level of the characters relative to the challenges they face.
In the game I'm currently in, if we're low on hp, we just find a place to hide, and as long as there are no random encounters (there rarely are), we have a long rest and are ready to go at full strength.
In 1E games, if you were low on hp, didn't have any healing potions, and you cleric was dead, you were in a tough situation. You had to find a way out of the dungeon without running into a monster, or accidentally setting off a trap you missed on your way in. I remember being the last to survive our exit of the dungeon, just because the DM rolled low on the poison dart trap as I was opening the door to the outside.
Now, that's tension!
In 5E, as long as someone purchased a few (relatively inexpensive ) healing kit, there are no worries.
Another thing I would like to see is the elimination or revision of the "heal completely with a long rest" mechanic. Talk about an OP mechanic.
Every time I see people say this, I wonder exactly how often a situation comes up at their table in which the players choose to rest up, but doesn't actually rest however long (or in whatever way, should it come to using items/spells to reduce the time needed) it takes to be functionally equivalent to the 5th edition rules.
Because my experience has always been that when the party finally decides "okay, that's all we can do for now, time to start a rest" the next thing that gets played out is an encounter with the party at full power - so the only difference is whether the narrative is "...two weeks later..." or "...the next day...", not any difference in the power level of the characters relative to the challenges they face.
In the game I'm currently in, if we're low on hp, we just find a place to hide, and as long as there are no random encounters (there rarely are), we have a long rest and are ready to go at full strength.
In 1E games, if you were low on hp, didn't have any healing potions, and you cleric was dead, you were in a tough situation. You had to find a way out of the dungeon without running into a monster, or accidentally setting off a trap you missed on your way in. I remember being the last to survive our exit of the dungeon, just because the DM rolled low on the poison dart trap as I was opening the door to the outside.
Now, that's tension!
In 5E, as long as someone purchased a few (relatively inexpensive ) healing kit, there are no worries.
Had the same problem in my games, with long rest and all... until someone pointed me out that long rest can only happen once every 24 hours. so if you ar eallowing long rest to happen more then 1 every 24 hours, then clearly you are the one alowing such behaviors to happen. not the game itself. also you speak as if your long rest had no consequences, if your DM makes your BBEG wait 8 hours for a long rest just because the players needs healing, then again, its not the engines fault, it is yours for removing consequences of taking their time away to heal.
what you are doing is looking at the game as a video game, where things waits patiently until certain events happen. in reality D&D is simulation gaming, where tons of stuff can happen to make sure you don't come out of there alive. exemples... sorry but even if they do barricade themselves, i dont see how players cna have even a short rest in a castle they are crashing into. seriously, i had players try to long rest in a castle on high alert, can i say they never had their long rest ? the whole castle ended up finding them and they had to fight wave after wave after wave. until nobody was left in that castle. as a DM if you let your players rest where they shouldn't... its not the fault of the game engine. it is your fault as a DM because you removed consequences.
that's all i'm saying here.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Another thing I would like to see is the elimination or revision of the "heal completely with a long rest" mechanic. Talk about an OP mechanic.
Every time I see people say this, I wonder exactly how often a situation comes up at their table in which the players choose to rest up, but doesn't actually rest however long (or in whatever way, should it come to using items/spells to reduce the time needed) it takes to be functionally equivalent to the 5th edition rules.
Because my experience has always been that when the party finally decides "okay, that's all we can do for now, time to start a rest" the next thing that gets played out is an encounter with the party at full power - so the only difference is whether the narrative is "...two weeks later..." or "...the next day...", not any difference in the power level of the characters relative to the challenges they face.
In the game I'm currently in, if we're low on hp, we just find a place to hide, and as long as there are no random encounters (there rarely are), we have a long rest and are ready to go at full strength.
In 1E games, if you were low on hp, didn't have any healing potions, and you cleric was dead, you were in a tough situation. You had to find a way out of the dungeon without running into a monster, or accidentally setting off a trap you missed on your way in. I remember being the last to survive our exit of the dungeon, just because the DM rolled low on the poison dart trap as I was opening the door to the outside.
Now, that's tension!
In 5E, as long as someone purchased a few (relatively inexpensive ) healing kit, there are no worries.
Had the same problem in my games, with long rest and all... until someone pointed me out that long rest can only happen once every 24 hours. so if you ar eallowing long rest to happen more then 1 every 24 hours, then clearly you are the one alowing such behaviors to happen. not the game itself. also you speak as if your long rest had no consequences, if your DM makes your BBEG wait 8 hours for a long rest just because the players needs healing, then again, its not the engines fault, it is yours for removing consequences of taking their time away to heal.
what you are doing is looking at the game as a video game, where things waits patiently until certain events happen. in reality D&D is simulation gaming, where tons of stuff can happen to make sure you don't come out of there alive. exemples... sorry but even if they do barricade themselves, i dont see how players cna have even a short rest in a castle they are crashing into. seriously, i had players try to long rest in a castle on high alert, can i say they never had their long rest ? the whole castle ended up finding them and they had to fight wave after wave after wave. until nobody was left in that castle. as a DM if you let your players rest where they shouldn't... its not the fault of the game engine. it is your fault as a DM because you removed consequences.
that's all i'm saying here.
No, the long rest can only occur once per 24 hour period. Strictly enforced by the DM. Not sure where you're getting the idea about video games. The monsters aren't waiting 8 hours for us to rest..that's what random encounters are for. The DM usually rolls for random encounters several times during the rest. And occasionally they do find us, and interrupt our rest. But it doesn't happen that often.
In the game I'm currently in, if we're low on hp, we just find a place to hide, and as long as there are no random encounters (there rarely are), we have a long rest and are ready to go at full strength.
In 1E games, if you were low on hp, didn't have any healing potions, and you cleric was dead, you were in a tough situation. You had to find a way out of the dungeon without running into a monster, or accidentally setting off a trap you missed on your way in. I remember being the last to survive our exit of the dungeon, just because the DM rolled low on the poison dart trap as I was opening the door to the outside.
Now, that's tension!
In 5E, as long as someone purchased a few (relatively inexpensive ) healing kit, there are no worries.
I've only got two comments about this:
You are comparing not just differing rules, but differing DM attitudes/approaches, because your 5th edition DM is enabling your "just find a place to hide" style of rest (they do not have to have random encounters rarely happen, don't need to give you a place to hide, etc.), while your AD&D DM is making it harder (they do not have to have your path out of danger be potentially dangerous).
The main reason the 5th edition long rest rules are what they are is because thousands of gamers were polled on how they handle rest and recovery and the results where very heavily skewed towards the current set-up being preferred, with the next most popular option being the same outcome in the practical sense, but all the HP being restored because of spells/items that were readily available to "spam".
In the game I'm currently in, if we're low on hp, we just find a place to hide, and as long as there are no random encounters (there rarely are), we have a long rest and are ready to go at full strength.
In 1E games, if you were low on hp, didn't have any healing potions, and you cleric was dead, you were in a tough situation. You had to find a way out of the dungeon without running into a monster, or accidentally setting off a trap you missed on your way in. I remember being the last to survive our exit of the dungeon, just because the DM rolled low on the poison dart trap as I was opening the door to the outside.
Now, that's tension!
In 5E, as long as someone purchased a few (relatively inexpensive ) healing kit, there are no worries.
I've only got two comments about this:
You are comparing not just differing rules, but differing DM attitudes/approaches, because your 5th edition DM is enabling your "just find a place to hide" style of rest (they do not have to have random encounters rarely happen, don't need to give you a place to hide, etc.), while your AD&D DM is making it harder (they do not have to have your path out of danger be potentially dangerous).
The main reason the 5th edition long rest rules are what they are is because thousands of gamers were polled on how they handle rest and recovery and the results where very heavily skewed towards the current set-up being preferred, with the next most popular option being the same outcome in the practical sense, but all the HP being restored because of spells/items that were readily available to "spam".
I'm not arguing whether or not that the majority like the rest and recovery mechanic under 5E, because clearly they do. I'm arguing that the mechanics makes surviving too easy for the various reasons I mentioned in previous posts.
In the game I'm currently in, if we're low on hp, we just find a place to hide, and as long as there are no random encounters (there rarely are), we have a long rest and are ready to go at full strength.
In 1E games, if you were low on hp, didn't have any healing potions, and you cleric was dead, you were in a tough situation. You had to find a way out of the dungeon without running into a monster, or accidentally setting off a trap you missed on your way in. I remember being the last to survive our exit of the dungeon, just because the DM rolled low on the poison dart trap as I was opening the door to the outside.
Now, that's tension!
In 5E, as long as someone purchased a few (relatively inexpensive ) healing kit, there are no worries.
I've only got two comments about this:
You are comparing not just differing rules, but differing DM attitudes/approaches, because your 5th edition DM is enabling your "just find a place to hide" style of rest (they do not have to have random encounters rarely happen, don't need to give you a place to hide, etc.), while your AD&D DM is making it harder (they do not have to have your path out of danger be potentially dangerous).
The main reason the 5th edition long rest rules are what they are is because thousands of gamers were polled on how they handle rest and recovery and the results where very heavily skewed towards the current set-up being preferred, with the next most popular option being the same outcome in the practical sense, but all the HP being restored because of spells/items that were readily available to "spam".
I'm not arguing whether or not that the majority like the rest and recovery mechanic under 5E, because clearly they do. I'm arguing that the mechanics makes surviving too easy for the various reasons I mentioned in previous posts.
Well... What were saying here is that it is only an illusion and that your dm is the one making it too easy to begin with. Because in my games... I have no problem killing my players if i want to.
Now... How can they lose 8 hours of rest while fighting people ? From what you are telling us... Thats your problem. Now i have no problem with my players long rest while travelling. I have no problem with them at the inn resting while the city burns. But i do not want them in the mine barricading themselves and waiting 8 hours. Random encounters are bullshit man. Its a sad excuse for a dm to screw the players. You it as much as we do.
So again... What were saying is that your dm is the one making it easy on you by allowing things you shouldnt be doing.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
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While you could play a Rogue, it wont give you multiple attacks, or heavy armour use (without crippling yourself) that a Fighter can bring to the table, or the exploration skills and abilities that a Ranger can bring.
The Harpers are an organisation that has long had it's type of training despite having a huge variety of classes within their midst. Something akin to a subclass can add a lot of mechanical weight and setting flavour to that organisation.
- Loswaith
I'm not desperate for this, but I think it would be cool to get a 5e version of the Binder class from 3.5's Tome of Magic. Might not even need to be a full class, I could imagine Binder as an archetype for the Warlock, maybe even for Wizard or Cleric.
Just gunna drop this in here...
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Another thing I would like to see is the elimination or revision of the "heal completely with a long rest" mechanic. Talk about an OP mechanic.
I'm a 1E veteran from back in the day, and it seems 5E has over-simplified/hand waved a few things.
Poison can't kill you outright anymore, you can't go below 0 hp, and you get 3 death saves...It's actually hard to die in 5E.
In 1E, your actions were meaningful because death was around every corner. In 5E, there are too many safety nets. You can make a series of bad decisions, and still walk away in one piece.
All the focus on a background story is generally a good thing. But in my experience with 5E so far, most backgrounds are forgotten/become irrelevant fairly quickly. So, it's a waste of time to spend more than a few minutes on them. I remember my first 5E campaign, the DM insisted that the layers spend substantial time and effort creating detailed backgrounds, only to ignore them (except for one of the players) a few sessions in.
My current DM is doing a much better job in this regard but after the 8th session, I can see the emphasis start to fade.
Every time I see people say this, I wonder exactly how often a situation comes up at their table in which the players choose to rest up, but doesn't actually rest however long (or in whatever way, should it come to using items/spells to reduce the time needed) it takes to be functionally equivalent to the 5th edition rules.
Because my experience has always been that when the party finally decides "okay, that's all we can do for now, time to start a rest" the next thing that gets played out is an encounter with the party at full power - so the only difference is whether the narrative is "...two weeks later..." or "...the next day...", not any difference in the power level of the characters relative to the challenges they face.
Hmm, I’ll have to look part of that up.
also... why would poison kill one shot ? i have yet to see any poison in real life that can kill you outright by just touching it ? or heck even just slashing damage. there is always a few times, not to mention adrenaline that gets pumped and actually do things. but lets not get into real life poisons here... are you applying the poisonned conditions to people ? because if you are not, then it is exactly why your poison sucks. the poisonned conditions is exactly there for that so in any case you should use that more often.
also... when you are in a rush and your players suddently take 15 days to rest to get full healing... you try explaining why the bbeg just stood there and waited for them. or try to explain to them that they have to literally waste all abilities and ressources including their life before the bbeg fight just because you wanted to reduce them first. with 5e, these things becomes much easier to pull and players have a much better time accepting that ressources needs to be managed and that the game is made for that to happen. unlike previous editions where without a cleric or any form of healing, your players were just strickly dead. meaning they absolutely had a need for team composition and forcing players to play what they didn't wanna play. aka the healer of the group which nobody wanted.
to me it was the inverse, while i liked the pathfinder way of having consittution determining who dies or not. it was still way too low to be any good. i'd often kill players out of nowhere cause of a random crit, cause of a player at 15hp who had no choice but to fight and die knowing full well that was gonna happen. not to mention the number of player hwo just prayed for the next blow to miss. i ended up wanting my players to a better way of managing death. i'd have to agree that max hp isn't a way to add threshold... but so few little point as the -10 of 3e... sorry that was bullshit, still is today. and healing normally taking 1hp per day was so much bullshit.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
putting in another vote for Dragonlance campaign setting, I fondly recall reading chronicles in my teenage years.
in reality D&D is simulation gaming, where tons of stuff can happen to make sure you don't come out of there alive. exemples... sorry but even if they do barricade themselves, i dont see how players cna have even a short rest in a castle they are crashing into. seriously, i had players try to long rest in a castle on high alert, can i say they never had their long rest ? the whole castle ended up finding them and they had to fight wave after wave after wave. until nobody was left in that castle. as a DM if you let your players rest where they shouldn't... its not the fault of the game engine. it is your fault as a DM because you removed consequences.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I second Eberron. I think the setting is one of the best. Also would like a Dark Sun campaign book.
Well, looks like I pretty much got what I wanted.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)