If I can summarise what I think Kreakdude is saying (because I think it's being lost in the details)... (in an ideal world) a customer should have to pay for the content only once via some kind of unique identifier, but the retailers would be free to add a markup to the content to cover their costs for repackaging the content in a usable format on their site. Essentially DDB would not lose any money via this proposition, but WOTC would.
Have I got this right?
Yes, assuming WotC doesn't sell enough extra content due to the more attractive model to make up for the loss which has been pointed out to be a lot more content. It's hard to beat 200%-400%.
So according to this logic the implementation cannot exist without the idea, but the idea can exist without the implementation.
You are confusing two statements I made as being the same statement, which they were not.
One was that the idea (D&D 5th edition) doesn't exist as a separate thing from the work WotC (and fans, thanks to the open play-test) put into it.
The other was that the implementation (D&D Beyond, or other digital offerings) don't exist as a thing separate from the utilized ideas (the D&D 5th Edition bits that shape what they make the coding do, and that are re-produced in the data bases that the tools operate upon).
Or to use your phrasings; I've been talking about two different implementations (D&D 5th edition & D&D Beyond), despite that the idea behind one of the implementations is the other implementation.
I think this is one of the details distracting from the main point, but I think I get what you're saying now. Like, if WotC tried to sell PHB to consumers but only delivered an activation key and no distribution of the content whatsoever (and no future plans to ever distribute it) then no consumer would ever buy it meaning it has no value to a customer.
First of all, I find your criticism to be one of the most reasonably-worded I've seen so far. Just to put that out there.
Next I would say that absolutely DDB is not the solution for everyone. No product ever will be. I can think of several types of users who would gain little benefit from what is offered.
Regarding price, my rationale is a bit different from yours. Granted, I bought in at launch, when the core 3 books were $20 each, so that makes a little bit of a difference, but I explained my group's pricing breakdown a few posts above. Also admittedly, my group will not get to keep the content they pitched in for if the group were ever to disband, however I did discuss that with them, and they all decided that $11 was a small price to pay for the next year or so of gaming entertainment. One player is even going to double down now that it has been several months and start buying digital content for his own personal use. That's his choice, and I can't fault others for not wanting to do the same.
Again, I respect your perspective as you seem to approach this discussion respectfully and not the typical angry "THIS IS BS AND DUMB AND EVERYONE HATES IT" one. If the product isn't for you, so be it. As you said in the other post, I don't work for either company, so I have no incentive to buy you into this product. But as a customer, I frequent these boards, and seeing the same topics arise over and over again does get old.
Plus, it's easier to share the cost of physical books between players. GM buys the DMG and the MM, players buy PHBs and XGTE. If I leave a D&D group, I keep my physical books. If I leave a D&D Beyond group, I keep nothing unless I have the GM account, in which case my players keep nothing. If they'd helped me split the cost of the D&D Beyond content leases, under the assumption that we could all share the content equally, they're going to be annoyed.
First, let me say you have every right to decide the pricing model doesn't work for you, and not to buy in. There is no one model that will work for everyone.
I did want to point out that this particular aspect of your point doesn't necessarily have to be the case: a group could decide to spread out the purchasing of the items among the players. (I buy the PHB, you buy the MM, Susie buys the DMG, etc.) Only one person needs to have the Master Tier subscription and turn on content sharing in the campaign, then everyone's content is shared with everyone. When/if the group breaks up/the campaign ends, everyone who bought content still has the content they bought.
I do understand your concern about the eventual costs of the Master Tier subscription. My two (teen) children and I all have DDB accounts; each of us have purchased content here, though not the precise same resources. I thought about getting a Master Tier to share content between the 3 of us, but I did the math and realized that doing so would quickly be more expensive than just purchasing content outright. (This is also why I vastly prefer a one time purchase model for content, instead of an ongoing subscription for content that some have advocated for)
Or just have the content be subscription based only like the different levels you have to pay for, just increase the monthly. Up front cost as much as the books we already have ($350 at a discount) AND a subscription seems just way high. It's not that people can't afford it, its a cost vs value thing. I'm one of the nerds with Wyrmwood so I'll pay if I see value.
You have every right to decide DDB doesn't have enough value for you at the current level. DDB's model appeals to/works for some folks and not for others; the same would be true of any model they chose. For example, they wouldn't have me as a paying customer if they had opted for a subscription for content model, they do with the current model. No model is likely to please both of us.
There are, however, far more choices than "don't use DDB" and "Pay $350 plus a subscription." Some of the choices include:
-Use a free DDB account and homebrew everything desired (limitation: currently subclasses can't be homebrewed, although that feature is coming)
-Buy only the individual character options needed for one's character
-Buy only the "books" most needed/most helpful on DDB
-Share out book purchases and cost of Master Tier subscription with friends and use content sharing
-buy "compendium only" of the core books for a rules resource
Doing a little of this/a little of that leads to nearly infinite choices in this regard.
Not all of those choice options work for everyone, depending on their needs and wants, and none of them may work for you, but there are a broad array of options.
I'm one of those who used a combination of several of the approaches above. I bought the PHB (on sale), a race, a subclass, and Hero Tier subscription. I've homebrewed what magic items/spells/backgrounds/races I need/want beyond that, and I happen to be fortunate to be currently benefitting from content sharing in a Play by Post campaign. All told, I've spent around $50 on DDB, far less than our family has spent on physical DnD Books. If it weren't for benefiting from content sharing, I might have spent another $30-$50 for the adventure I'm currently running and all or some of the monsters from the MM.
I have been playing/DMing 5e since release, and as such have bought several of the sourcebooks. I recently discovered this site , but was dismayed to learn that I would have to pay for the books a second time if I wanted to use that content. I get that the dev team need support, but I dont have the money to buy the books twice. Is there any way I can have my physical book purchases validated so that I can use this amazing resource?
Although I'm glad to have communicated to many that my model could work but probably won't, participation in this thread has significantly decreased my optimism for someday not having to repurchase the content in 5e. Super bummed. At best I can see myself buying core rulebooks here on DDB and buying adventure modules on Roll20. Most likely I will just make the best out of DDB's homebrew system and free stuff while keeping my eye out for competing table top RPGs or other competing ways to use my hobby time like AAA video games. D&D is hard enough to introduce to new people, it's a shame I have to fight the nerdy stereotype AND niche market strategy, not to mention my own recently jaded perspective.
I have been playing/DMing 5e since release, and as such have bought several of the sourcebooks. I recently discovered this site , but was dismayed to learn that I would have to pay for the books a second time if I wanted to use that content. I get that the dev team need support, but I dont have the money to buy the books twice. Is there any way I can have my physical book purchases validated so that I can use this amazing resource?
I have merged your thread into this one, because it holds all the answers you need to your question. In short, no, there is no way to get free products on this site, because you've purchased physical books elsewhere.
Sorry your bubble has burst! As a number have said, DDB isn't for everyone. A couple of further comments, though.
I think your expectations of increased sales to cover reduced prices is overly optimistic. As you said, this is a niche market even though it's growing in popularity. This is why I don't think a single purchase consumer licence for content would ever work. Ultimately WOTC would make less money and it doesn't make sense for them to do that even if it grew the market.
I also think computer game companies are the wrong analogy. WOTC and video game companies are different kinds of animals. WOTC is a publishing company with digital as only one part of it's mix. Ubisoft or whatever is digital from the ground up. Curse/FG/R20 are natively digital, but WOTC also deals with plastic miniature makers, spell card makers, and so on.
Incidental but semi interesting factoid, Dragon Age was ported to a pen and paper RPG by Green Ronin, under licence.
That is my problem, DDB is TOTALLY up my alley, I just can't justify buying books twice.
I had that problem as well till i sat back and looked at how i would no longer be hurting my back hauling all those books around. The character creator works fantastic and now I don't miss options when i am specing out a new character. All the hard work is done for me.
The other idea is to sell your physical books and use those proceeds to pay for the digital ones. or do like I am doing and buy over time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Are there any plans to allow players who own a physical copy of official DnD books to allow them to own or atleast purchase them for a discounted price on Beyond?
I prefer the alternative answer: D&D Beyond is already at a discounted price - around 40% off. But, however unfortunate you might find it, everybody gets the discount (not just people that bought a book from somewhere and someone else).
I prefer the alternative answer: D&D Beyond is already at a discounted price - around 40% off. But, however unfortunate you might find it, everybody gets the discount (not just people that bought a book from somewhere and someone else).
Except other than the PHB and DM guide, it’s not discounted at all or even more expensive than Amazon. If it was 40% off I doubt you’d see as many people having an issue. On top of that, you have a monthly subscription fee so it’s more expensive than having books.
It’s a great concept, but the cost to benefit isn’t really there. If it were, this thread wouldn’t exist and be growing daily.
It’s a great concept, but the cost to benefit isn’t really there. If it were, this thread wouldn’t exist and be growing daily.
There are over half a million user accounts on D&D Beyond and I count around a dozen people at most sharing your opinion on costs in this thread.
That's about 0.002% of users.
Curse choose not to share details of finances, but it has been stated that D&D Beyond has been more successful than expected, by which I can infer that there are many people who are happily purchasing content and using it, without joining in debate on these forums.
I prefer the alternative answer: D&D Beyond is already at a discounted price - around 40% off. But, however unfortunate you might find it, everybody gets the discount (not just people that bought a book from somewhere and someone else).
Except other than the PHB and DM guide, it’s not discounted at all or even more expensive than Amazon. If it was 40% off I doubt you’d see as many people having an issue. On top of that, you have a monthly subscription fee so it’s more expensive than having books.
It’s a great concept, but the cost to benefit isn’t really there. If it were, this thread wouldn’t exist and be growing daily.
The subscription is not necessary for either the book purchases or the use of the toolset (listings, character builder...).
It’s a great concept, but the cost to benefit isn’t really there. If it were, this thread wouldn’t exist and be growing daily.
There are over half a million user accounts on D&D Beyond and I count around a dozen people at most sharing your opinion on costs in this thread.
That's about 0.002% of users.
Curse choose not to share details of finances, but it has been stated that D&D Beyond has been more successful than expected, by which I can infer that there are many people who are happily purchasing content and using it, without joining in debate on these forums.
Of which I am one of them, just haven't paid for any of it, yet. And by using your own logic that there are people enjoying it and not on the boards, we can also infer that there are people not using it and not on these boards either.
I'm just here trying to weigh it out and see what other opinions are and basically try to convince myself to buy content really. Just with all the other apps like Fight Club and having the books already, I'm not being pushed over the edge to plop down more moolah.... yet lol
Yeah, I get it and honestly, the goal is to have zero people dissatisfied.
The Curse team are working hard to make D&D Beyond better and I am really excited about some of the features they're planning to implement.
If you feel it's not worth you spending money on currently, then I urge you to check back in a few months and see the progress and additional tools! :)
First of all, I find your criticism to be one of the most reasonably-worded I've seen so far. Just to put that out there.
Next I would say that absolutely DDB is not the solution for everyone. No product ever will be. I can think of several types of users who would gain little benefit from what is offered.
Regarding price, my rationale is a bit different from yours. Granted, I bought in at launch, when the core 3 books were $20 each, so that makes a little bit of a difference, but I explained my group's pricing breakdown a few posts above. Also admittedly, my group will not get to keep the content they pitched in for if the group were ever to disband, however I did discuss that with them, and they all decided that $11 was a small price to pay for the next year or so of gaming entertainment. One player is even going to double down now that it has been several months and start buying digital content for his own personal use. That's his choice, and I can't fault others for not wanting to do the same.
Again, I respect your perspective as you seem to approach this discussion respectfully and not the typical angry "THIS IS BS AND DUMB AND EVERYONE HATES IT" one. If the product isn't for you, so be it. As you said in the other post, I don't work for either company, so I have no incentive to buy you into this product. But as a customer, I frequent these boards, and seeing the same topics arise over and over again does get old.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
I have been playing/DMing 5e since release, and as such have bought several of the sourcebooks. I recently discovered this site , but was dismayed to learn that I would have to pay for the books a second time if I wanted to use that content. I get that the dev team need support, but I dont have the money to buy the books twice. Is there any way I can have my physical book purchases validated so that I can use this amazing resource?
Although I'm glad to have communicated to many that my model could work but probably won't, participation in this thread has significantly decreased my optimism for someday not having to repurchase the content in 5e. Super bummed. At best I can see myself buying core rulebooks here on DDB and buying adventure modules on Roll20. Most likely I will just make the best out of DDB's homebrew system and free stuff while keeping my eye out for competing table top RPGs or other competing ways to use my hobby time like AAA video games. D&D is hard enough to introduce to new people, it's a shame I have to fight the nerdy stereotype AND niche market strategy, not to mention my own recently jaded perspective.
No, there is not. The short reason is that those physical books do not contain unique codes. The long reason can be found here, among other places.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Thank you for the timely response. I guess I will just stick to traditional methods then.
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InsidersA dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
Sorry your bubble has burst! As a number have said, DDB isn't for everyone. A couple of further comments, though.
I think your expectations of increased sales to cover reduced prices is overly optimistic. As you said, this is a niche market even though it's growing in popularity. This is why I don't think a single purchase consumer licence for content would ever work. Ultimately WOTC would make less money and it doesn't make sense for them to do that even if it grew the market.
I also think computer game companies are the wrong analogy. WOTC and video game companies are different kinds of animals. WOTC is a publishing company with digital as only one part of it's mix. Ubisoft or whatever is digital from the ground up. Curse/FG/R20 are natively digital, but WOTC also deals with plastic miniature makers, spell card makers, and so on.
Incidental but semi interesting factoid, Dragon Age was ported to a pen and paper RPG by Green Ronin, under licence.
That is my problem, DDB is TOTALLY up my alley, I just can't justify buying books twice.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Are there any plans to allow players who own a physical copy of official DnD books to allow them to own or atleast purchase them for a discounted price on Beyond?
No, because there's no way to prove ownership of said physical books; WotC decided not to put unique codes in the things.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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I prefer the alternative answer: D&D Beyond is already at a discounted price - around 40% off. But, however unfortunate you might find it, everybody gets the discount (not just people that bought a book from somewhere and someone else).
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D&D Beyond FoundersPun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
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D&D Beyond FoundersYeah, I get it and honestly, the goal is to have zero people dissatisfied.
The Curse team are working hard to make D&D Beyond better and I am really excited about some of the features they're planning to implement.
If you feel it's not worth you spending money on currently, then I urge you to check back in a few months and see the progress and additional tools! :)
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊