So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..
In order to play you a group of people have to buy the materials in some way, shape, or form. Currently, that means either buying the books, buying the content on DDB, or buying both. You don't need both to play.
The digital versions are the same price as the books when they are on sale (otherwise they are far cheaper than MSRP) and they come with all the perks of DDB integration.
For a new group, DDB is the most cost effective way to get into D&D. Only one person needs to buy the content and then everyone can share it. If I were just starting out, DDB would be my choice.
I'm not saying I love the price. What I'm saying is it's reasonable, albeit on the higher end. Personally I think $19.99 as the actual price would be the sweet spot, but I also have no idea what their costs are.
Look, it's sticker shock at the initial investment because we are several books in for this edition. Going forward, $30 is a great deal for a new book that is already integrated into DDB. I think if DDB was available as an option at launch, people would be fine.
Offline access via phone app is nice and all, but I really wish buying the digital books would just give access to a PDF (in addition to the existing integration on the DDB site). Make it watermarked or something as a form of DRM if you need to, but relying on a tiny phone screen when doing things offline isn't really great. Where I game in-person, I don't always have internet access so I can't make complete use of the DDB search tools (need to tether to my phone, and that drains through battery really quickly). I can save snippets of things that I know I'll need, but when I need to look something up that I didn't anticipate ahead of time it'd be nicer to do it on a larger screen than my phone. A PDF suits that purpose well, as it gives access to the entire content in one place, and I can search it for what I need.
What about the DM's that can't afford a bunch of books? That's why there needs to be a $10 or $15 subscription that just gives you access to everything.
Nah, it's not up to Curse to help those of us (myself, as an example) that don't have a lot of budget available for gaming materials to figure out how we can get around to having the things we want to have.
If a person can afford $10 or $15 a month, then that person can save that money each month and make purchases when they have saved up enough to get something - and thanks to the pricing going on with D&D Beyond, eventually they'll be able to have everything and it won't be taken away should they want to spend their $10 or $15 a month on something else.
And in the long term, the current pricing actually saves a person money compared to continuing a $10 or $15 monthly payment.
Really, this option you present as "more affordable" isn't - unless of course a person were somehow to cheat the system and get long-term access without actually paying for it.
"It's not a company's job to cater to me, the customer" is a bad way to think. It doesn't matter whether it is "more affordable in the long term" or not. It's a matter of giving options to customers.
So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..
Curse has given options to customers. Way more options than existed before.
SRD, Basic Rules, and EE for free.
Private homebrew section for adding whatever content you want (including from sourcebooks you may already have)
2 subscription tiers that impact what content you have access to (published homebrew), sharing content (master tier), and unlock unlimited characters
Sourcebook content at ~60% of MSRP (with the core books at 40% of MSRP for the first week after launch)
Portions of sourcebook content (items, classes, backgrounds, monsters, spells, etc., etc.) either individually or in bundles
Are there more options they could potentially add? Sure, but Curse is already offering more options than you had from just WotC.
As to your second point about a new group coming to the hobby, before DDB came along, they would have had to purchase the books up front anyway (either from one of the VTTs or in actual book form), so this isn't really a good argument, especially since DDB allows new players to purchase smaller chunks of only what they "need," thus eliminating the high entry level cost you seem to be worried about. AaronofBarbaria's solution seems much less the antagonistic approach you seem to want to see, and much more of a, "Hey, sorry you can't afford everything right now. If you're willing to wait a bit, though, I have an idea that will save you some money while still getting you everything on DDB. You in?"
For people that are looking at the offline functionality on something besides a phone - you can get an Android emulator for just about any operating system and run the app on your laptop or whatever.
So even if Curse doesn't make the web-native version of the tools work offline, there is a fix.
For people that are looking at the offline functionality on something besides a phone - you can get an Android emulator for just about any operating system and run the app on your laptop or whatever.
So even if Curse doesn't make the web-native version of the tools work offline, there is a fix.
I wouldn't call that a fix, but more a potential "work around". And while this does provide a possible option to the situation, there still needs to be a windows app just like the android and apple app being created, IMHO.
For people that are looking at the offline functionality on something besides a phone - you can get an Android emulator for just about any operating system and run the app on your laptop or whatever.
So even if Curse doesn't make the web-native version of the tools work offline, there is a fix.
I wouldn't call that a fix, but more a potential "work around". And while this does provide a possible option to the situation, there still needs to be a windows app just like the android and apple app being created, IMHO.
It would be nice to use the tools offline on my surface.
One question I do have about Master Tier and being able to share the content with my players: I am the DM of my group. It's my lot in life and I have accepted that I might not ever actually play again lol. However, say one of my players wants to run a one off adventure. Would there be a way for them to access some of the resources I have at my disposal to DM said one off? If so, that would be absolutely amazing! If not, I would like to submit the idea for consideration. Otherwise, I do own the core books and nothing is stopping me from letting them borrow my books... other than my extremely over protective nature of books...
...
I too would like to know if this will be possible.
One question I do have about Master Tier and being able to share the content with my players: I am the DM of my group. It's my lot in life and I have accepted that I might not ever actually play again lol. However, say one of my players wants to run a one off adventure. Would there be a way for them to access some of the resources I have at my disposal to DM said one off? If so, that would be absolutely amazing! If not, I would like to submit the idea for consideration. Otherwise, I do own the core books and nothing is stopping me from letting them borrow my books... other than my extremely over protective nature of books...
...
I too would like to know if this will be possible.
;)
Stand by for further information is my suggestion.
What about the DM's that can't afford a bunch of books? That's why there needs to be a $10 or $15 subscription that just gives you access to everything.
Nah, it's not up to Curse to help those of us (myself, as an example) that don't have a lot of budget available for gaming materials to figure out how we can get around to having the things we want to have.
If a person can afford $10 or $15 a month, then that person can save that money each month and make purchases when they have saved up enough to get something - and thanks to the pricing going on with D&D Beyond, eventually they'll be able to have everything and it won't be taken away should they want to spend their $10 or $15 a month on something else.
And in the long term, the current pricing actually saves a person money compared to continuing a $10 or $15 monthly payment.
Really, this option you present as "more affordable" isn't - unless of course a person were somehow to cheat the system and get long-term access without actually paying for it.
"It's not a company's job to cater to me, the customer" is a bad way to think. It doesn't matter whether it is "more affordable in the long term" or not. It's a matter of giving options to customers.
So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..
You can still play D&D with the SRD info that is available free. In fact The Lost Mines of Phandelver is played with SRD characters, so new players can get a taste of whether they like playing D&D before shelling out big bucks on it. In fact you don't have to spend a cent until you have determined if this is for you. You can't get much fairer than that.
As the DM rather than a player I think the added screen-space afforded with a laptop will be invaluable when using DDB to help run a game at the table.
I neither have nor intend to purchase any iOs or Android devices, but use my Surface extensively at the table (presently running games with Fantasy Grounds for maps and combat tracking, and Syrinscape for audio effects). I had hope to supplement these tools with DDB, but without Windows offline capability I feel I may need to give DDB a pass, which would be a shame as I really like what I've seen so far.
So that's my vote for full Windows off-line functionality!
As the DM rather than a player I think the added screen-space afforded with a laptop will be invaluable when using DDB to help run a game at the table.
I neither have nor intend to purchase any iOs or Android devices, but use my Surface extensively at the table (presently running games with Fantasy Grounds for maps and combat tracking, and Syrinscape for audio effects). I had hope to supplement these tools with DDB, but without Windows offline capability I feel I may need to give DDB a pass, which would be a shame as I really like what I've seen so far.
So that's my vote for full Windows off-line functionality!
According to what I can find online, Android holds over 60% of the mobile+tablet OS market, and iOS holds over 30%.
That's why you're not likely to see a native Windows app. I know the frustration, because I had a Lumia for a couple years. LOVED the phone, but came back to Android just because the Store was not growing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid,Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions! I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
One question I do have about Master Tier and being able to share the content with my players: I am the DM of my group. It's my lot in life and I have accepted that I might not ever actually play again lol. However, say one of my players wants to run a one off adventure. Would there be a way for them to access some of the resources I have at my disposal to DM said one off? If so, that would be absolutely amazing! If not, I would like to submit the idea for consideration. Otherwise, I do own the core books and nothing is stopping me from letting them borrow my books... other than my extremely over protective nature of books...
...
I too would like to know if this will be possible.
I would love native apps for Windows and OS X at some point.
As the DM rather than a player I think the added screen-space afforded with a laptop will be invaluable when using DDB to help run a game at the table.
I neither have nor intend to purchase any iOs or Android devices, but use my Surface extensively at the table (presently running games with Fantasy Grounds for maps and combat tracking, and Syrinscape for audio effects). I had hope to supplement these tools with DDB, but without Windows offline capability I feel I may need to give DDB a pass, which would be a shame as I really like what I've seen so far.
So that's my vote for full Windows off-line functionality!
According to what I can find online, Android holds over 60% of the mobile+tablet OS market, and iOS holds over 30%.
That's why you're not likely to see a native Windows app. I know the frustration, because I had a Lumia for a couple years. LOVED the phone, but came back to Android just because the Store was not growing.
I'd be hoping for a full-fat laptop experience, rather than a mobile one though, just off-line. I'm sure if you took a survey of what laptops/computers people use to DM with, either in game prep or actually at the table, Windows (and the full Mac OS) would likely beat all the mobile OS's for usage? I'd like to think that DDB isn't looking only at the mobile market? And that making the present Windows/Mac content available offline isn't beyond reason?
As the DM rather than a player I think the added screen-space afforded with a laptop will be invaluable when using DDB to help run a game at the table.
I neither have nor intend to purchase any iOs or Android devices, but use my Surface extensively at the table (presently running games with Fantasy Grounds for maps and combat tracking, and Syrinscape for audio effects). I had hope to supplement these tools with DDB, but without Windows offline capability I feel I may need to give DDB a pass, which would be a shame as I really like what I've seen so far.
So that's my vote for full Windows off-line functionality!
According to what I can find online, Android holds over 60% of the mobile+tablet OS market, and iOS holds over 30%.
That's why you're not likely to see a native Windows app. I know the frustration, because I had a Lumia for a couple years. LOVED the phone, but came back to Android just because the Store was not growing.
I'd be hoping for a full-fat laptop experience, rather than a mobile one though, just off-line. I'm sure if you took a survey of what laptops/computers people use to DM with, either in game prep or actually at the table, Windows (and the full Mac OS) would likely beat all the mobile OS's for usage? I'd like to think that DDB isn't looking only at the mobile market? And that making the present Windows/Mac content available offline isn't beyond reason?
For me, I think a lot of it depends on what features make their way to an app. Not all devices can do proper amounts of multitasking, or make good use of background functions. If D&D Beyond were to include more features, such as a audio integration, effectively replacing Syrinscape, as an example, then I don't think a laptop app would be necessary. I ran may last game with my laptop, which I wasn't a fan of, because the way that the space worked in my friend's apartment made the laptop unwieldy, and sometimes in the way. If they were to cram everything into the app, then it would provide a lot of free space for me, because I could just have everything on my iPhone or iPad, and those are much easier to manage, especially if all the features are there for me to work on either, or both. However, until that point, having a laptop app would be more worthwhile.
As the DM rather than a player I think the added screen-space afforded with a laptop will be invaluable when using DDB to help run a game at the table.
I neither have nor intend to purchase any iOs or Android devices, but use my Surface extensively at the table (presently running games with Fantasy Grounds for maps and combat tracking, and Syrinscape for audio effects). I had hope to supplement these tools with DDB, but without Windows offline capability I feel I may need to give DDB a pass, which would be a shame as I really like what I've seen so far.
So that's my vote for full Windows off-line functionality!
According to what I can find online, Android holds over 60% of the mobile+tablet OS market, and iOS holds over 30%.
That's why you're not likely to see a native Windows app. I know the frustration, because I had a Lumia for a couple years. LOVED the phone, but came back to Android just because the Store was not growing.
I'd be hoping for a full-fat laptop experience, rather than a mobile one though, just off-line. I'm sure if you took a survey of what laptops/computers people use to DM with, either in game prep or actually at the table, Windows (and the full Mac OS) would likely beat all the mobile OS's for usage? I'd like to think that DDB isn't looking only at the mobile market? And that making the present Windows/Mac content available offline isn't beyond reason?
For me, I think a lot of it depends on what features make their way to an app. Not all devices can do proper amounts of multitasking, or make good use of background functions. If D&D Beyond were to include more features, such as a audio integration, effectively replacing Syrinscape, as an example, then I don't think a laptop app would be necessary. I ran may last game with my laptop, which I wasn't a fan of, because the way that the space worked in my friend's apartment made the laptop unwieldy, and sometimes in the way. If they were to cram everything into the app, then it would provide a lot of free space for me, because I could just have everything on my iPhone or iPad, and those are much easier to manage, especially if all the features are there for me to work on either, or both. However, until that point, having a laptop app would be more worthwhile.
I think having an off-line mobile option would be more accessible anyway. More people are happy to carry a tablet around with them rather than a laptop. Tablets generally have a longer battery life; meaning no need for cables, they are a lot smaller; so you can use them easier, especially behind a screen and the touch screen makes it easy to use one-handed for when you are using sound effects.
(and this in no way takes away from people wanting to use DDB on a mobile device, I just hope there's also enough interest to maybe extend the options to include an off-line mode for those of us that would find it beneficial. More good options, more happy customers)
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Ok, everyone, take a deep breath and can we see fewer personal attacks?
None of the moderators want to start penalising people or removing posts, so let's keep this civil.
Please ensure your posts address your point-of-view, rather than making any assumptions about other people.
thank you :)
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Offline access via phone app is nice and all, but I really wish buying the digital books would just give access to a PDF (in addition to the existing integration on the DDB site). Make it watermarked or something as a form of DRM if you need to, but relying on a tiny phone screen when doing things offline isn't really great. Where I game in-person, I don't always have internet access so I can't make complete use of the DDB search tools (need to tether to my phone, and that drains through battery really quickly). I can save snippets of things that I know I'll need, but when I need to look something up that I didn't anticipate ahead of time it'd be nicer to do it on a larger screen than my phone. A PDF suits that purpose well, as it gives access to the entire content in one place, and I can search it for what I need.
Are there more options they could potentially add? Sure, but Curse is already offering more options than you had from just WotC.
As to your second point about a new group coming to the hobby, before DDB came along, they would have had to purchase the books up front anyway (either from one of the VTTs or in actual book form), so this isn't really a good argument, especially since DDB allows new players to purchase smaller chunks of only what they "need," thus eliminating the high entry level cost you seem to be worried about. AaronofBarbaria's solution seems much less the antagonistic approach you seem to want to see, and much more of a, "Hey, sorry you can't afford everything right now. If you're willing to wait a bit, though, I have an idea that will save you some money while still getting you everything on DDB. You in?"
For people that are looking at the offline functionality on something besides a phone - you can get an Android emulator for just about any operating system and run the app on your laptop or whatever.
So even if Curse doesn't make the web-native version of the tools work offline, there is a fix.
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Please feel free to message either Sorce or another moderator if you have any concerns.
"You can't take the sky from me."
As the DM rather than a player I think the added screen-space afforded with a laptop will be invaluable when using DDB to help run a game at the table.
I neither have nor intend to purchase any iOs or Android devices, but use my Surface extensively at the table (presently running games with Fantasy Grounds for maps and combat tracking, and Syrinscape for audio effects). I had hope to supplement these tools with DDB, but without Windows offline capability I feel I may need to give DDB a pass, which would be a shame as I really like what I've seen so far.
So that's my vote for full Windows off-line functionality!
One question :)
If you have a Master subscription, will the players you share content with have access to your DnDB information if you are offline?
"You can't take the sky from me."
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid, Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck
Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions!
I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
Say hello to my Microsoft Surface :-)
(and this in no way takes away from people wanting to use DDB on a mobile device, I just hope there's also enough interest to maybe extend the options to include an off-line mode for those of us that would find it beneficial. More good options, more happy customers)