Hmm...2.99 still kinda steep to me though. I'm with you on that, but a song on iTunes is about .99 to $1.25 now. Can't they come down just a little bit at that price?
Hmm...2.99 still kinda steep to me though. I'm with you on that, but a song on iTunes is about .99 to $1.25 now. Can't they come down just a little bit at that price?
If you subscribe for 12 months, the price is much lower ($2.13 per month). That's less than a (cheap) cup of coffee per month. Even the Master tier is around $4.50 with an annual purchase. Both of those are super reasonable for something you expect to use basically 24/7.
I could see the existing tech being used for Unearthed Arcana pretty easily. Basically, just define a master WotC or DnDBeyond user that has *all users* as players in that admin campaign. Then DnDBeyond can add the Unearthed Arcana as "homebrew" for that master admin campaign and anyone else can utilize it. That allows it to show as basically homebrew to users, so they don't confuse it with official stuff.
Either way, I don't see it being too burden to transcribe the UA data into my own homebrew section.
I'm cool with including UA as long as you have to turn it on, kind of like a free purchase. That way we can choose whether it gets added to our content. As a DM, I'd also like to see the ability to restrict UA. I'm not a fan of allowing it in my games as a default setting, but might be willing to allow some of it, on a player-by-player basis. Except maybe the Artificer and Mystic. Since they're not going to be given the full release treatment for a while, I'd be okay with allowing those as a default, but I'd prefer to be able to opt in on those features.
Also, I just had a thought about adding classes from the DMs Guild. I'm not sure how you're going to select it, when the time starts to come, but might I suggest making it be a thing where the content creator submits their piece for consideration, and we get to vote on which one gets added. Also, how are you going to handle DMs Guild content that creators charge for? Is there going to be a built in marketplace that feeds directly into DMs Guild, so they can still be paid for their work? Or, are you only going to allow DMs Guild content that's free or by donation? Will you allow links to the DMs Guild page or Patreon (as an example) to allow us to support them? Especially as someone who is working on my own Tinkerer class that I might release on DMs Guild, these are questions I need to consider. I know you don't want to be an independent marketplace, so I'm just curious if you have any ideas of how that would work.
Given the fact that internet is ALL AROUND us, the fact that you need and internet connection to use the content should not be an issue. Like AT ALL.
I understand where this assumption is coming from because many of us take for granted that we have both the means and infrastructure to access the Internet. For rural communities Internet access can be spotty at best and for low-income people sometimes a smart phone with a limited data plan is the only option. For these people, offline access is crucial. I personally live in an urban area and make decent money so I don't have these issues, but even I would like to be able to access the materials offline for those times I can't get on wifi and I do want to have to chew up data all the time.
Quote from Dareth >> "BUT if they would just stick to the subsription fee, the community would be much larger. I for a fact know at least 5 other ppl that were very interested in this product as DMs. And they lost the interest cause they dont see any logical reason to pay for the intelectual rights of WotC TWICE. And I assume, that they know at least 2 or 3 ppl etc. That makes quite the community. And those are just DM's. From my players I know for a fact that 7 of them (from 3 groups of 5 - so half of the people I play with) was hyped for this also, cause THEY told me about this project.
So, good luck and all, but form my experience in digital board games/ board games/PnP RPG etc. this initiative will probably die in 5 to 7 years. Still - I wish you all good luck here. It was fun following the progress and development of this product, but you are waaaay to expensive. :)"
End quote>>
First, the number of people who want a subscription and the number of people who do not are probably pretty even.
Second, what it sounds like you're saying is the group of people you mention do not want to pay for the intellectual rights and ownership of content they purchased in a new format. Instead, they would rather rent that content and lose it once they stopped paying? That doesn't logical sense.
Finally, if you talk with the three groups of 5 players you know you could explain to them that instead of paying $10-$15 per month to rent access to the content they could:
- As a group of five players and a DM each pitch in $20 one time ($120 total) and buy the three core books, Volo's, and SCAG thus giving them access to all of the source books.
- Split the $5.99/month for Master Tier subscription ($.99 per person per month) share access to all of the material.
That's a grand total is $20.99 one time and then $.99 a month or $32.99 for the year. If two groups have the same DM, it works out to $12.50 per person one time to get the source books and the first month of Master Tier and then 50 cents per month after that.
Also, when new source books come out it would be $5 each.
So explain to me how that is more expensive then six people paying $10-$15 per month ($120-$174 per year) for a total of $60-$90 or $720-$1,080 per year?
I don't know about you, but I'll take $32.99 for the entire year over $120-$174 a year any day.
You are looking from american perspective. Maybe in the US the users that want to subscribe and those that don't are equal (I really doubt it but let's say they are) you are not looking on Asia/Europe. Where actually USD is an expensive currency. So - sure - Curse will have some customers in the US, but both Asian and European Continent will not be interested in paying twice for the same Intelectual Property rights they already paid for. And as someone said it earlier - you are not paying for those books forever. You will have them via the app./website. You won't be able to transfer them outside the digital infrastructure.
And the "high subscription fee" would be for the DM only. Why would players pay for the increased sub? That makes no sense. -.-'
And AGAIN - you are looking only from the US market POV. If Curse aim is only the US market - then sure. No problem. For me and my players? Your 20$ is equal 100-120$ in our terms. So all source books is around 600-700 of our currency. That is a lot. Especially that I got all source books in hard cover for 2/3 of that price. So yeah - for Europe it is "being greedy" when you reach out for ppl to pay twice for IP. In some of the EU countries, if you go to the cinema for a specific movie, you can later but that movies DVD or Blueray at cinema ticket discount if you bring it to the store. Why? Because you''ve already paid for that movies IP when you went to the cinema. Simple as that.
Just two things here:
The offline app is definitely in the list and is in development.
Wait for the Master Tier announcement today. DM and players alike will be very interested for how it works.
Alright, I need some clarification around master tier content sharing. Maybe it's been answered, but I haven't seen it. Maybe it will be answered later today.
I noticed when I tried to get a friend into a campaign, he followed the link, made a character, and then had to follow the link AGAIN to assign the character to the campaign. He had to do that for every character he wanted in the campaign. If I were content sharing, say Volo's, how would he go about making a Tabaxi?
Or am I understanding it all wrong and sharing is player-based/campaign transcendent? In which case, wouldn't it be FAR more intuitive to have "content sharing slots"?
Alright, I need some clarification around master tier content sharing. Maybe it's been answered, but I haven't seen it. Maybe it will be answered later today.
I noticed when I tried to get a friend into a campaign, he followed the link, made a character, and then had to follow the link AGAIN to assign the character to the campaign. He had to do that for every character he wanted in the campaign. If I were content sharing, say Volo's, how would he go about making a Tabaxi?
Or am I understanding it all wrong and sharing is player-based/campaign transcendent? In which case, wouldn't it be FAR more intuitive to have "content sharing slots"?
For how you can grant the purchased content to your players I don't know specifically, we will see next week.
The sharing in campaign based. The owner of the Master Tier will have a determined amount of "MASTER campaign" slots. Within these slots, the sharing of purchased content occurs.
Alright, I need some clarification around master tier content sharing. Maybe it's been answered, but I haven't seen it. Maybe it will be answered later today.
I noticed when I tried to get a friend into a campaign, he followed the link, made a character, and then had to follow the link AGAIN to assign the character to the campaign. He had to do that for every character he wanted in the campaign. If I were content sharing, say Volo's, how would he go about making a Tabaxi?
Or am I understanding it all wrong and sharing is player-based/campaign transcendent? In which case, wouldn't it be FAR more intuitive to have "content sharing slots"?
Yeah, I'm interested to see how this will work also. For now, I think if he has pre-made characters under his account, then he can add them to the campaign via the link. Don't know how that will work if he wants to access your Master Tier content.
Needless to say, I've been impatiently hitting refresh here all day to see the big announcement on how it will work. C'mon BadEye! Post it already! :)
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Given the fact that internet is ALL AROUND us, the fact that you need and internet connection to use the content should not be an issue. Like AT ALL.
I understand where this assumption is coming from because many of us take for granted that we have both the means and infrastructure to access the Internet. For rural communities Internet access can be spotty at best and for low-income people sometimes a smart phone with a limited data plan is the only option. For these people, offline access is crucial. I personally live in an urban area and make decent money so I don't have these issues, but even I would like to be able to access the materials offline for those times I can't get on wifi and I do want to have to chew up data all the time.
Quote from Dareth >> "BUT if they would just stick to the subsription fee, the community would be much larger. I for a fact know at least 5 other ppl that were very interested in this product as DMs. And they lost the interest cause they dont see any logical reason to pay for the intelectual rights of WotC TWICE. And I assume, that they know at least 2 or 3 ppl etc. That makes quite the community. And those are just DM's. From my players I know for a fact that 7 of them (from 3 groups of 5 - so half of the people I play with) was hyped for this also, cause THEY told me about this project.
So, good luck and all, but form my experience in digital board games/ board games/PnP RPG etc. this initiative will probably die in 5 to 7 years. Still - I wish you all good luck here. It was fun following the progress and development of this product, but you are waaaay to expensive. :)"
End quote>>
First, the number of people who want a subscription and the number of people who do not are probably pretty even.
Second, what it sounds like you're saying is the group of people you mention do not want to pay for the intellectual rights and ownership of content they purchased in a new format. Instead, they would rather rent that content and lose it once they stopped paying? That doesn't logical sense.
Finally, if you talk with the three groups of 5 players you know you could explain to them that instead of paying $10-$15 per month to rent access to the content they could:
- As a group of five players and a DM each pitch in $20 one time ($120 total) and buy the three core books, Volo's, and SCAG thus giving them access to all of the source books.
- Split the $5.99/month for Master Tier subscription ($.99 per person per month) share access to all of the material.
That's a grand total is $20.99 one time and then $.99 a month or $32.99 for the year. If two groups have the same DM, it works out to $12.50 per person one time to get the source books and the first month of Master Tier and then 50 cents per month after that.
Also, when new source books come out it would be $5 each.
So explain to me how that is more expensive then six people paying $10-$15 per month ($120-$174 per year) for a total of $60-$90 or $720-$1,080 per year?
I don't know about you, but I'll take $32.99 for the entire year over $120-$174 a year any day.
You are looking from american perspective. Maybe in the US the users that want to subscribe and those that don't are equal (I really doubt it but let's say they are) you are not looking on Asia/Europe. Where actually USD is an expensive currency. So - sure - Curse will have some customers in the US, but both Asian and European Continent will not be interested in paying twice for the same Intelectual Property rights they already paid for. And as someone said it earlier - you are not paying for those books forever. You will have them via the app./website. You won't be able to transfer them outside the digital infrastructure.
And the "high subscription fee" would be for the DM only. Why would players pay for the increased sub? That makes no sense. -.-'
And AGAIN - you are looking only from the US market POV. If Curse aim is only the US market - then sure. No problem. For me and my players? Your 20$ is equal 100-120$ in our terms. So all source books is around 600-700 of our currency. That is a lot. Especially that I got all source books in hard cover for 2/3 of that price. So yeah - for Europe it is "being greedy" when you reach out for ppl to pay twice for IP. In some of the EU countries, if you go to the cinema for a specific movie, you can later but that movies DVD or Blueray at cinema ticket discount if you bring it to the store. Why? Because you''ve already paid for that movies IP when you went to the cinema. Simple as that.
I'm basing my assumptions of the number of pro-subscription vs pro-purchasing off of what I've seen on the forums. I have no way of knowing where people are from.
However, you are correct that my comments regarding Internet access are based off of the situation in the U.S. Internet access is not a given here and it can be very expensive. We are currently in the midst of a major legislative battle over this.
I'm still not understanding how you believe renting access to the books is not paying twice for intellectual property, but making a one-time payment is. Regardless of where a person is from, you're paying to have access to something you already bought whether you are paying a subscription or purchasing it outright. Please explain how paying a monthly fee to rent access to the IP you already bought is different from buying access to the IP for a one time cost.
As for your comment regarding cost sharing, I was under the impression you meant every person would have to subscribe as this is the model most services offer. That is what my coat comparison was based on. I didn't realize you meant one person, the DM, would subscribe and everyone in the campaign would be able to share the content.
I'll use your conversion rates to discuss cost. There are five source books, which totals $120 USD or 500-600 in EU currency (not sure where you're from specifically) on DDB. If I'm understanding you correctly, you said you got all five hard covers for 2/3 of that price, so 333-400 EU or $66-$80 USD. I have no idea how you got all five hardcover source books at an average of $13-$16 USD per book, so please share your secret because I'm sure others would like to get in on that deal. The best I've seen is $25-$30 on sale on Amazon.
If just one person had to subscribe and everyone in a campaign could benefit, the subscription model for buying the IP (or renting it really) would be 50-75 EU month, for a total of 600-900 EU per year, every year.
Compare this to 600 EU for the books which could easily be split amongst the group based on the new master tier announcement (and I would argue it's fair that the players kick in) and around 30 EU per month or 360 EU per year for the month-to-month master tier option.
I unfortunately can't support this at these prices. The subscription isn't the issue, I feel that is about right, but the price of buying the books, again, is too high. If they were in the $5 or $10 dollar range I might reconsider. Oh well, I was kind of looking forward to this.
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Are there plans to bundle the magic items from the adventures together?
And the monsters?
As far as I've seen the answer is "not currently", but I know there's at least a handful of us interested in this option so maybe it will be offered down the road.
I bet this has been answered already, but when Xanathar's Guide to Everything comes out, will the Legendary Bundle go up, or will it stay around $300?
It goes up but you are also credited for any previous single book purchases you make. So it is possible to eventually get the 15 percent discount, just after paying full price for a bit to help lower the one time cost of the bundle.
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Another vote for Unearthed Arcana here!
UA is something our group is definitely looking for.
:)
Hmm...2.99 still kinda steep to me though. I'm with you on that, but a song on iTunes is about .99 to $1.25 now. Can't they come down just a little bit at that price?
Cryptic
re: Unearthed Arcana...
I could see the existing tech being used for Unearthed Arcana pretty easily. Basically, just define a master WotC or DnDBeyond user that has *all users* as players in that admin campaign. Then DnDBeyond can add the Unearthed Arcana as "homebrew" for that master admin campaign and anyone else can utilize it. That allows it to show as basically homebrew to users, so they don't confuse it with official stuff.
Either way, I don't see it being too burden to transcribe the UA data into my own homebrew section.
I'm cool with including UA as long as you have to turn it on, kind of like a free purchase. That way we can choose whether it gets added to our content. As a DM, I'd also like to see the ability to restrict UA. I'm not a fan of allowing it in my games as a default setting, but might be willing to allow some of it, on a player-by-player basis. Except maybe the Artificer and Mystic. Since they're not going to be given the full release treatment for a while, I'd be okay with allowing those as a default, but I'd prefer to be able to opt in on those features.
Also, I just had a thought about adding classes from the DMs Guild. I'm not sure how you're going to select it, when the time starts to come, but might I suggest making it be a thing where the content creator submits their piece for consideration, and we get to vote on which one gets added. Also, how are you going to handle DMs Guild content that creators charge for? Is there going to be a built in marketplace that feeds directly into DMs Guild, so they can still be paid for their work? Or, are you only going to allow DMs Guild content that's free or by donation? Will you allow links to the DMs Guild page or Patreon (as an example) to allow us to support them? Especially as someone who is working on my own Tinkerer class that I might release on DMs Guild, these are questions I need to consider. I know you don't want to be an independent marketplace, so I'm just curious if you have any ideas of how that would work.
Alright, I need some clarification around master tier content sharing. Maybe it's been answered, but I haven't seen it. Maybe it will be answered later today.
I noticed when I tried to get a friend into a campaign, he followed the link, made a character, and then had to follow the link AGAIN to assign the character to the campaign. He had to do that for every character he wanted in the campaign. If I were content sharing, say Volo's, how would he go about making a Tabaxi?
Or am I understanding it all wrong and sharing is player-based/campaign transcendent? In which case, wouldn't it be FAR more intuitive to have "content sharing slots"?
Check out the upcoming full 3D VTT, TaleSpire! [official website] [subreddit] [discord]
Are there plans to bundle the magic items from the adventures together?
Tooltips | Snippet Code | How to Homebrew on D&D Beyond | Subclass Guide | Feature Roadmap
Astromancer's Homebrew Assembly
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
I unfortunately can't support this at these prices. The subscription isn't the issue, I feel that is about right, but the price of buying the books, again, is too high. If they were in the $5 or $10 dollar range I might reconsider. Oh well, I was kind of looking forward to this.
I bet this has been answered already, but when Xanathar's Guide to Everything comes out, will the Legendary Bundle go up, or will it stay around $300?
Tooltips | Snippet Code | How to Homebrew on D&D Beyond | Subclass Guide | Feature Roadmap
Astromancer's Homebrew Assembly
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)