Curse is an entirely separate company to WotC and has a licensing deal with WotC. There are also many pages of discussion about the commercials behind such an arrangement and why it's not viable to offer discount for already purchased physical books (or purchase on Roll20/FantasyGrounds).
The Curse team have gone to extraordinary lengths to bring the cost down as low as they can, to make is accessible for people.
I haven't seen anything on the licensing deal, but I assume it's expensive. Curse has already sunk a ton of money on development and the fee thus far, and needs to make the money back while also paying for the fee each month (or however it's done). I'm sure most people understand that. However, the pricing has come as a surprise for a lot of people, many of whom assumed it would be subscription only. $300 for books we already own? 3/month to remove ads and remove an arbitrary (to us) limit on created characters? I'd be willing to pay between $10 and $15 a month for all-inclusive access to this service/tool, but as it is now I won't be spending any money on D&DB.
If you assumed it would be subscription only you must not have looked at anything here since like May. In fact it was implied for quite a while that it wouldnt be, then confirmed about a month ago. They never said it would be subscription only, and thankfully it isn't. At 15 a month you would get over this $300 total in less than 2 years, and have to lose access at any time you unsubscribed, and with a subscription only model you couldn't have offline access (else people would subscribe, go offline, unsubscribe and have all content for $15)
I was one of the early posters who balked at the pricing scheme, thinking it was too much to ask us to "buy the books again". But the more I think about it, and the more I fiddle with fan-made XML files for apps like Fight Club, the more I am seeing the value of DDB. So I think I'll be giving the Founder's sale a try and purchasing the bits of SCAG and Volo's I need as a player to give things a chance.
Given the fact that internet is ALL AROUND us, the fact that you need and internet connection to use the content should not be an issue.
Well, for many of us it is. Other gaming companies give .pdfs. No strings attached, no need to be connected once you download, nothing. There's many reasons why this could be preferble (little or no mobile data, lack of desire to access public Wi-Fi, going to an area with no service) but you can't just tell people that their issues don't matter while going on to complain about something that many people don't care about. For me, a subscription would have made me left, and while I think the prices are a bit high I vastly prefer the up-front model.
Frankly, though I'm feeling a bit of sticker shock and unlikely to fully buy-in any time soon because of that, I do appreciate all the work the Curse crew have done. I have some quibbles (only six character slots, really?) but overall like the majority of what's here.
That said, I'd still like an answer to my question from earlier if anybody has it... given Curse is owned by Twitch is owned by Amazon, what are the odds I'll be able to pay through Amazon?
Given the fact that internet is ALL AROUND us, the fact that you need and internet connection to use the content should not be an issue.
Well, for many of us it is. Other gaming companies give .pdfs. No strings attached, no need to be connected once you download, nothing. There's many reasons why this could be preferble (little or no mobile data, lack of desire to access public Wi-Fi, going to an area with no service) but you can't just tell people that their issues don't matter while going on to complain about something that many people don't care about. For me, a subscription would have made me left, and while I think the prices are a bit high I vastly prefer the up-front model.
Frankly, though I'm feeling a bit of sticker shock and unlikely to fully buy-in any time soon because of that, I do appreciate all the work the Curse crew have done. I have some quibbles (only six character slots, really?) but overall like the majority of what's here.
That said, I'd still like an answer to my question from earlier if anybody has it... given Curse is owned by Twitch is owned by Amazon, what are the odds I'll be able to pay through Amazon?
WotC is a recent partner of Twitch. During their fireside announcement of that partnership a few people asked if their D&D channel sub will work with D&D Beyond at all. I think there's something there that might be on the horizon.
Given the fact that internet is ALL AROUND us, the fact that you need and internet connection to use the content should not be an issue.
Well, for many of us it is. Other gaming companies give .pdfs. No strings attached, no need to be connected once you download, nothing. There's many reasons why this could be preferble (little or no mobile data, lack of desire to access public Wi-Fi, going to an area with no service) but you can't just tell people that their issues don't matter while going on to complain about something that many people don't care about.
If you use a tablet (iPad) I understand all the stuff you unlock will be available offline in the app.
A quick question, which may have been answered earlier or elsewhere that I cannot find, but what precisely do the subscriptions get you?
The Hero Tier at $2.99/ month is intended primarily for players. It removes ads on the site, allows players to create an unlimited number of characters, and add publicly-shared homebrew content to your collection to use within the toolset.
The Master Tier at $5.99/ month is intended primarily for Dungeon Masters and full groups. It grants all the benefits of the Hero Tier, and also allows a DM to share all her unlocked official content with other players within a campaign - so content does not have to be unlocked by every player.
More details about the Master Tier today! :-) don't miss it!
Given the fact that internet is ALL AROUND us, the fact that you need and internet connection to use the content should not be an issue. Like AT ALL.
I understand where this assumption is coming from because many of us take for granted that we have both the means and infrastructure to access the Internet. For rural communities Internet access can be spotty at best and for low-income people sometimes a smart phone with a limited data plan is the only option. For these people, offline access is crucial. I personally live in an urban area and make decent money so I don't have these issues, but even I would like to be able to access the materials offline for those times I can't get on wifi and I do want to have to chew up data all the time.
Quote from Dareth >> "BUT if they would just stick to the subsription fee, the community would be much larger. I for a fact know at least 5 other ppl that were very interested in this product as DMs. And they lost the interest cause they dont see any logical reason to pay for the intelectual rights of WotC TWICE. And I assume, that they know at least 2 or 3 ppl etc. That makes quite the community. And those are just DM's. From my players I know for a fact that 7 of them (from 3 groups of 5 - so half of the people I play with) was hyped for this also, cause THEY told me about this project.
So, good luck and all, but form my experience in digital board games/ board games/PnP RPG etc. this initiative will probably die in 5 to 7 years. Still - I wish you all good luck here. It was fun following the progress and development of this product, but you are waaaay to expensive. :)"
End quote>>
First, the number of people who want a subscription and the number of people who do not are probably pretty even.
Second, what it sounds like you're saying is the group of people you mention do not want to pay for the intellectual rights and ownership of content they purchased in a new format. Instead, they would rather rent that content and lose it once they stopped paying? That doesn't logical sense.
Finally, if you talk with the three groups of 5 players you know you could explain to them that instead of paying $10-$15 per month to rent access to the content they could:
- As a group of five players and a DM each pitch in $20 one time ($120 total) and buy the three core books, Volo's, and SCAG thus giving them access to all of the source books.
- Split the $5.99/month for Master Tier subscription ($.99 per person per month) share access to all of the material.
That's a grand total is $20.99 one time and then $.99 a month or $32.99 for the year. If two groups have the same DM, it works out to $12.50 per person one time to get the source books and the first month of Master Tier and then 50 cents per month after that.
Also, when new source books come out it would be $5 each.
So explain to me how that is more expensive then six people paying $10-$15 per month ($120-$174 per year) for a total of $60-$90 or $720-$1,080 per year?
I don't know about you, but I'll take $32.99 for the entire year over $120-$174 a year any day.
I have money on the table earmarked for a subscription service that grants me access to all current and future content for as long as I am subscribed, similar to the D&D Insider model. I am willing to give someone money for this sort of official source service instead of getting it for free from, what I assume to be, unofficial services (because if they are also official, then they are offering way more official content for free than Curse, which seems odd).
If Curse wants my money, they know what sort of pricing option they can offer to get it.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Quote from Dareth >> Given the fact that internet is ALL AROUND us, the fact that you need and internet connection to use the content should not be an issue. Like AT ALL.
End Quote >>
I understand where this assumption is coming from because many of us take for granted that we have both the means and infrastructure to access the Internet.
For rural communities Internet access can be spotty at best and for low-income people sometimes a smart phone with a limited data plan is the only option.
For these people, offline access is crucial. I personally live in an urban area and make decent money so I don't have these issues, but even I would like to be able to access the materials offline for those times I can't get on wifi and I do want to have to chew up data all the time.
Quote from Dareth >> "BUT if they would just stick to the subsription fee, the community would be much larger. I for a fact know at least 5 other ppl that were very interested in this product as DMs. And they lost the interest cause they dont see any logical reason to pay for the intelectual rights of WotC TWICE. And I assume, that they know at least 2 or 3 ppl etc. That makes quite the community. And those are just DM's. From my players I know for a fact that 7 of them (from 3 groups of 5 - so half of the people I play with) was hyped for this also, cause THEY told me about this project.
So, good luck and all, but form my experience in digital board games/ board games/PnP RPG etc. this initiative will probably die in 5 to 7 years. Still - I wish you all good luck here. It was fun following the progress and development of this product, but you are waaaay to expensive. :)" End quote>>
First, the number of people who want a subscription and the number of people who do not are probably pretty even.
Second, what it sounds like you're saying is the group of people you mention do not want to pay for the intellectual rights and ownership of content they purchased in a new format. Instead, they would rather rent that content and lose it once they stopped paying? That doesn't make logical sense to me.
Finally, if you talk with the three groups of 5 players you know you could explain to them that instead of paying $10-$15 per month to rent access to the content they could:
- As a group of five players and a DM each pitch in $20 one time ($120 total) and buy the three core books, Volo's, and SCAG thus giving them access to all of the source books.
- Split the $5.99/month for Master Tier subscription ($.99 per person per month) share access to all of the material.
That's a grand total is $20.99 one time and then $.99 a month or $32.99 for one year. If two groups have the same DM, it works out to $12.50 per person one time to get the source books and the first month of Master Tier and then 50 cents per month after that.
So explain to me how that is more expensive then six people paying $10-$15 per month ($120-$174 per year) for a total of $60-$90 or $720-$1,080 per year? I don't know about you, but I'll take $32.99 for a year over $120-$174 any day.
Regardless of whether you favor a Buffet-level subscription for all content or the current model of unlocking content via fee ala-carte, neither guarantees anyone "ownership" of the content.
Both are allowing access to content within the D&D Beyond toolset but with different payment models to do so.
I've already paid for every hardback book from 5E. I've already paid for every 5E product from Fantasy Grounds (and now others get to pay even less than I did). Now you expect me to pay for it all yet again with no recognition or appreciation for the support I've given you for?
That lack of appreciation or consideration and your dismissive "No." response to FAQs 12 and 13 have convinced me to stop spending money at all on 5E, in any form. Good luck with your revenue streams.
Nobody expects you to do anything, you have a choice. You can also choose to take the time once all of the homebrew tools are released to add the information yourself.
I've already paid for every hardback book from 5E. I've already paid for every 5E product from Fantasy Grounds (and now others get to pay even less than I did). Now you expect me to pay for it all yet again with no recognition or appreciation for the support I've given you for?
That lack of appreciation or consideration and your dismissive "No." response to FAQs 12 and 13 have convinced me to stop spending money at all on 5E, in any form. Good luck with your revenue streams.
You haven't given Curse any support. You've given Wizards of the Coast support (the hardback books) and you've given Fantasy Grounds support. Curse, which is an ENTIRELY different company, who spent countless hours coding, programming, troubleshooting, and creating this awesome toolset. You haven't given them anything, and you do not have to, because part of their service is offered for free. If you do not want to spend more money on 5e tools, then don't, either use the DnD Beyond free portion or not at all. You're under the impression that DnD Beyond is part of some 5e conglomerate, when in fact, it is a product created by a 3rd party, who paid for a licensing right so that they could create this amazing toolset for us, and through that licensure are now able to sell what thy have worked on. You think that because you paid one group something that you shouldn't have to pay another that did an entirely different type of work? That is unethical, wrong and morally disgusting.
This might have been questioned before but, here I go: I DM an Eberron Campaign, was part of a beautifully PbP here that was sited in Eberron/Zendikar campaign and an exquisite Kaladesh PbP. My question is. what about Unearthed Arcana and other WotC publications? Will they be added (at launch or in the foreseeable future) to DDB?
This might have been questioned before but, here I go: I DM an Eberron Campaign, was part of a beautifully PbP here that was sited in Eberron/Zendikar campaign and an exquisite Kaladesh PbP. My question is. what about Unearthed Arcana and other WotC publications? Will they be added (at launch or in the foreseeable future) to DDB?
Staff have said previously that they are going to find a cool way of adding Unearthed Arcana to D&D Beyond as an option (because it is playtest rules).
That won't be in for launch, but the more that people ask for things, the higher up the priority list they become!
The Legendary Bundle is not solely about book content purchases - locking in a forever 15% discount is a big part of the package.
Am I correct in inferring that the Legendary Bundle is achieved when you purchase all the sourcebooks and adventures? In that case, you could achieve it in the first week by spending only $300 discounted down to $255, instead of $330 discounted down to $280.
You have to actually purchase the Legendary Bundle to get its benefits. In your example, you would still need to pay the additional ~$25 to unlock it.
Since there is no other product to buy, and the subscription payments don't apply, how would one go about paying another $25 during the first week? May I suggest changing it so you're not punishing your early buyers?
There would be the Legendary Bundle left to buy, with all your previously-purchased content credit applied.
We don't consider a good thing (a lifetime 15% discount for all official digital content purchases) punishment. The Legendary Bundle isn't for everyone. Like everything with our pricing model, we are simply trying to offer a flexible option.
Thanks!
I just wanted to say thank you. I appreciate the flexibility this provides. I can't afford to buy the legendary bundle up front, but will probably at least buy the PHB, DMG and MM. Being able to piecemeal my collection together until I can afford the bundle is a great option.
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I was one of the early posters who balked at the pricing scheme, thinking it was too much to ask us to "buy the books again". But the more I think about it, and the more I fiddle with fan-made XML files for apps like Fight Club, the more I am seeing the value of DDB. So I think I'll be giving the Founder's sale a try and purchasing the bits of SCAG and Volo's I need as a player to give things a chance.
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A quick question, which may have been answered earlier or elsewhere that I cannot find, but what precisely do the subscriptions get you?
"BUT if they would just stick to the subsription fee, the community would be much larger. I for a fact know at least 5 other ppl that were very interested in this product as DMs. And they lost the interest cause they dont see any logical reason to pay for the intelectual rights of WotC TWICE. And I assume, that they know at least 2 or 3 ppl etc. That makes quite the community. And those are just DM's. From my players I know for a fact that 7 of them (from 3 groups of 5 - so half of the people I play with) was hyped for this also, cause THEY told me about this project.
So, good luck and all, but form my experience in digital board games/ board games/PnP RPG etc. this initiative will probably die in 5 to 7 years.
Still - I wish you all good luck here. It was fun following the progress and development of this product, but you are waaaay to expensive. :)"
I have money on the table earmarked for a subscription service that grants me access to all current and future content for as long as I am subscribed, similar to the D&D Insider model. I am willing to give someone money for this sort of official source service instead of getting it for free from, what I assume to be, unofficial services (because if they are also official, then they are offering way more official content for free than Curse, which seems odd).
If Curse wants my money, they know what sort of pricing option they can offer to get it.
Quote from Dareth >>
Given the fact that internet is ALL AROUND us, the fact that you need and internet connection to use the content should not be an issue. Like AT ALL.
End Quote >>
I understand where this assumption is coming from because many of us take for granted that we have both the means and infrastructure to access the Internet.
For rural communities Internet access can be spotty at best and for low-income people sometimes a smart phone with a limited data plan is the only option.
For these people, offline access is crucial. I personally live in an urban area and make decent money so I don't have these issues, but even I would like to be able to access the materials offline for those times I can't get on wifi and I do want to have to chew up data all the time.
Quote from Dareth >>
"BUT if they would just stick to the subsription fee, the community would be much larger. I for a fact know at least 5 other ppl that were very interested in this product as DMs. And they lost the interest cause they dont see any logical reason to pay for the intelectual rights of WotC TWICE. And I assume, that they know at least 2 or 3 ppl etc. That makes quite the community. And those are just DM's. From my players I know for a fact that 7 of them (from 3 groups of 5 - so half of the people I play with) was hyped for this also, cause THEY told me about this project.
So, good luck and all, but form my experience in digital board games/ board games/PnP RPG etc. this initiative will probably die in 5 to 7 years.
Still - I wish you all good luck here. It was fun following the progress and development of this product, but you are waaaay to expensive. :)"
End quote>>
First, the number of people who want a subscription and the number of people who do not are probably pretty even.
Second, what it sounds like you're saying is the group of people you mention do not want to pay for the intellectual rights and ownership of content they purchased in a new format. Instead, they would rather rent that content and lose it once they stopped paying? That doesn't make logical sense to me.
Finally, if you talk with the three groups of 5 players you know you could explain to them that instead of paying $10-$15 per month to rent access to the content they could:
- As a group of five players and a DM each pitch in $20 one time ($120 total) and buy the three core books, Volo's, and SCAG thus giving them access to all of the source books.
- Split the $5.99/month for Master Tier subscription ($.99 per person per month) share access to all of the material.
That's a grand total is $20.99 one time and then $.99 a month or $32.99 for one year. If two groups have the same DM, it works out to $12.50 per person one time to get the source books and the first month of Master Tier and then 50 cents per month after that.
So explain to me how that is more expensive then six people paying $10-$15 per month ($120-$174 per year) for a total of $60-$90 or $720-$1,080 per year? I don't know about you, but I'll take $32.99 for a year over $120-$174 any day.
Regardless of whether you favor a Buffet-level subscription for all content or the current model of unlocking content via fee ala-carte, neither guarantees anyone "ownership" of the content.
Both are allowing access to content within the D&D Beyond toolset but with different payment models to do so.
This might have been questioned before but, here I go: I DM an Eberron Campaign, was part of a beautifully PbP here that was sited in Eberron/Zendikar campaign and an exquisite Kaladesh PbP. My question is. what about Unearthed Arcana and other WotC publications? Will they be added (at launch or in the foreseeable future) to DDB?
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Asks for Unearthed Arcana integration.
:p
Not in a hurry, but it needs to be there! :D