I've across a discrepancy about the Vicious Weapon magic effect, and not sure if it needs to be fixed on DDB or not.
On DDB (and apparently in the SRD) it states that the weapon does an additional 2d6 damage. Apparently, according to a Reddit thread linked below, the printed DMG states that it does a flat 7 extra damage (not a roll). I don't have my printed DMG handy, so I can't check.
The errata for the DMG doesn't say anything about the discrepancy, but someone in the Reddit thread apparently asked Mike Mearls via Twitter, whose response was "core books take precedence over SRD".
So the question is: does the rule for Vicious Weapon as it appears in the DDB full version of the DMG come from the SRD (which may be wrong), or is the printed DMG wrong, but not yet covered by errata?
Any chance DDB can ask their contacts at WotC which is correct?
I have a 1st printing of the DMG and it states +7 damage added to a critical hit, while I also noted that DDB states 2d6 bonus damage in its description. I am more apt to go with the description on DDB due to the going from the latest printing og the book in question. But I also will state that 7 points of bonus damage does follow along with other examples of hit points shown by WotC in example the amount every class can automatically receive when going up a level is 50% +1 exactly for every class regardless of their HD.
I have a 1st printing of the DMG and it states +7 damage added to a critical hit, while I also noted that DDB states 2d6 bonus damage in its description. I am more apt to go with the description on DDB due to the going from the latest printing og the book in question. But I also will state that 7 points of bonus damage does follow along with other examples of hit points shown by WotC in example the amount every class can automatically receive when going up a level is 50% +1 exactly for every class regardless of their HD.
Yes, many people have pointed out that the 7 damage would be the average of the 2d6, but apparently the wording makes a difference because it is triggered by a critical hit, which doubles damage dice. So does the player roll 2d6 only, roll 2d6 twice, or just add 7 damage on top of whatever damage dice were already rolled twice for the crit damage?
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I would have to go with the player has the following option roll 2d6 or just take the +7 damage and add that to the critical damage rolled for the attack.
Sorry all, the official errata thread is supposed to stay locked, so that only official errata updates get posted on that thread. As such, I have re-locked it and moved the discussion posts to here.
Mearls is right: the SRD is not a source of rules. The game's rules live in the core rulebooks, or the Basic Rules (which should be identical where they overlap, except when Wizards forgets to update it with errata.) Although it's convenient for players, the SRD is mainly for third parties that want to publish their own D&D products. Thus, the DMG version is the correct one.
This also affects the Sword of Sharpness; the SRD version deals an extra 4d6 damage on a 20, but the DMG version deals 14 slashing damage.
And yes, the extra dice would get rerolled, unless the enemy has an effect that can negate critical hits such as the Adamantine Armor magic item.
Since the corrections in XGE to subclasses and spells replaced their original versions, I think the DMG version of the items should replace the SRD versions. Looking at the DMG in the Compendium shows the SRD version right now, which isn't good.
I think the issue is critical hit with these dices. They wanted to give players the dice version but there was no proper wording for it without making these dices getting rolled twice with a critical hit (well at least they wanted to keep things as RAW so it would be hard to give exceptions in this kind of situations) since these weapon requires a nat 20 rolled which is a critical hit (exceptions aside) sword of sharpness would be rolling 8d6 extra dices instead of 4d6 everytime the ability triggered for example.
I think the issue is critical hit with these dices. They wanted to give players the dice version but there was no proper wording for it without making these dices getting rolled twice with a critical hit (well at least they wanted to keep things as RAW so it would be hard to give exceptions in this kind of situations) since these weapon requires a nat 20 rolled which is a critical hit (exceptions aside) sword of sharpness would be rolling 8d6 extra dices instead of 4d6 everytime the ability triggered for example.
That's not actually how that would work. See brutal critical for an example of a thing which adds dice to a critical hit, but doesn't automatically get doubled like all the rest of the damage dice.
I think the issue is critical hit with these dices. They wanted to give players the dice version but there was no proper wording for it without making these dices getting rolled twice with a critical hit (well at least they wanted to keep things as RAW so it would be hard to give exceptions in this kind of situations) since these weapon requires a nat 20 rolled which is a critical hit (exceptions aside) sword of sharpness would be rolling 8d6 extra dices instead of 4d6 everytime the ability triggered for example.
That's not actually how that would work. See brutal critical for an example of a thing which adds dice to a critical hit, but doesn't automatically get doubled like all the rest of the damage dice.
that one specifically says critical hit which can be a 19-20 if a barbarian/fighter champion hybrid is rolled and it only increases the extra dices rolled by critical hit which means it can be negated by adamantine armor or other critical hit negators. The ones for sword of shaprness won't hit with a 19 even if you have champion fighter but they won't be negated totally if you are facing someone wearing adamantine armor (or has critical hit negator) either so the wording for brutal critical does not work for these items as they are intended.
That's not actually how that would work. See brutal critical for an example of a thing which adds dice to a critical hit, but doesn't automatically get doubled like all the rest of the damage dice.
Brutal Critical doesn't get doubled because it explicitly says the extra die is part of the extra dice from the critical.
The rules for the Vorpal Sword and the SRD versions of Mace of Smiting, Sword of Sharpness and Vicious Weapon says the attack deals an additional XdY damage; no mention of criticals. Crawford already confirmed you reroll a Vorpal Sword's extra slashing damage on a critical hit.
My point was about the "no proper wording for it without making these dices getting rolled twice with a critical hit" portion of the post I originally quoted.
Brutal critical is an example of a proper wording for dice that get added, but do not get doubled, when you score a critical hit.
My point was about the "no proper wording for it without making these dices getting rolled twice with a critical hit" portion of the post I originally quoted.
Brutal critical is an example of a proper wording for dice that get added, but do not get doubled, when you score a critical hit.
I realize I used some unclear language.
Which is why i said that description wouldn't work with sword of sharpness the wording seems fit but it does not. For starters brutal critical does not add a specific die it increases weapons so it does not need to specify a die type like sword of sharpness do with d6. secondly the main point of sword of sharpness is getting a 20 on die roll not getting a critical hit so that wording still won't work because of the points i stated out in my previous post. I guess they could add a parenthesis next to damage something like 4d6 (not get doubled with critical hit) but it would bend the rules (which they were trying to avoid in 5th edition to keep it RAW) since it explicitly states extra dices like sneak attack rolls also get doubled and would be out of design perspective hence they went with average of those dice 7 for 2d6 and 14 for 4d6 or at least that is opinion.
Found one more that got missed. The SRD says Sword of Life Stealing deals an extra 3d6 necrotic damage, while the DMG says 10.
The only problem with turning 3d6 into 10 is that the average of 3d6 is 10.5, not 10. It's not much, but it makes my head hurt.
Why is that one case of the general rule (round down unless told otherwise) making your head hurt? Every monster and NPC with an odd number of damage dice or hit dice has their average damage or hit points rounded down.
Found one more that got missed. The SRD says Sword of Life Stealing deals an extra 3d6 necrotic damage, while the DMG says 10.
The only problem with turning 3d6 into 10 is that the average of 3d6 is 10.5, not 10. It's not much, but it makes my head hurt.
Why is that one case of the general rule (round down unless told otherwise) making your head hurt? Every monster and NPC with an odd number of damage dice or hit dice has their average damage or hit points rounded down.
Those hurt, too. Well, the damage, at least.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
I've across a discrepancy about the Vicious Weapon magic effect, and not sure if it needs to be fixed on DDB or not.
On DDB (and apparently in the SRD) it states that the weapon does an additional 2d6 damage. Apparently, according to a Reddit thread linked below, the printed DMG states that it does a flat 7 extra damage (not a roll). I don't have my printed DMG handy, so I can't check.
The errata for the DMG doesn't say anything about the discrepancy, but someone in the Reddit thread apparently asked Mike Mearls via Twitter, whose response was "core books take precedence over SRD".
So the question is: does the rule for Vicious Weapon as it appears in the DDB full version of the DMG come from the SRD (which may be wrong), or is the printed DMG wrong, but not yet covered by errata?
Any chance DDB can ask their contacts at WotC which is correct?
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/6k9l81/vicious_weapon_rule_discrepancy/
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I have a 1st printing of the DMG and it states +7 damage added to a critical hit, while I also noted that DDB states 2d6 bonus damage in its description. I am more apt to go with the description on DDB due to the going from the latest printing og the book in question. But I also will state that 7 points of bonus damage does follow along with other examples of hit points shown by WotC in example the amount every class can automatically receive when going up a level is 50% +1 exactly for every class regardless of their HD.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I would have to go with the player has the following option roll 2d6 or just take the +7 damage and add that to the critical damage rolled for the attack.
Sorry all, the official errata thread is supposed to stay locked, so that only official errata updates get posted on that thread. As such, I have re-locked it and moved the discussion posts to here.
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Mearls is right: the SRD is not a source of rules. The game's rules live in the core rulebooks, or the Basic Rules (which should be identical where they overlap, except when Wizards forgets to update it with errata.) Although it's convenient for players, the SRD is mainly for third parties that want to publish their own D&D products. Thus, the DMG version is the correct one.
This also affects the Sword of Sharpness; the SRD version deals an extra 4d6 damage on a 20, but the DMG version deals 14 slashing damage.
And yes, the extra dice would get rerolled, unless the enemy has an effect that can negate critical hits such as the Adamantine Armor magic item.
Since the corrections in XGE to subclasses and spells replaced their original versions, I think the DMG version of the items should replace the SRD versions. Looking at the DMG in the Compendium shows the SRD version right now, which isn't good.
Ok, replying to the conversation here about Vicious Weapon - Filcat and I have investigated and determined:
Filcat is fixing this while I type this reply, so by the time you read this, it should be fixed on D&D Beyond.
To clarify - the correct answer is +7 damage.
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Great work! Can Sword of Sharpness get fixed too?
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I'll list on the formal errata page also.
This will affect items equipped to characters as well, which we'll need to change - that will take a bit longer to filter through.
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I think the issue is critical hit with these dices. They wanted to give players the dice version but there was no proper wording for it without making these dices getting rolled twice with a critical hit (well at least they wanted to keep things as RAW so it would be hard to give exceptions in this kind of situations) since these weapon requires a nat 20 rolled which is a critical hit (exceptions aside) sword of sharpness would be rolling 8d6 extra dices instead of 4d6 everytime the ability triggered for example.
that one specifically says critical hit which can be a 19-20 if a barbarian/fighter champion hybrid is rolled and it only increases the extra dices rolled by critical hit which means it can be negated by adamantine armor or other critical hit negators. The ones for sword of shaprness won't hit with a 19 even if you have champion fighter but they won't be negated totally if you are facing someone wearing adamantine armor (or has critical hit negator) either so the wording for brutal critical does not work for these items as they are intended.
My point was about the "no proper wording for it without making these dices getting rolled twice with a critical hit" portion of the post I originally quoted.
Brutal critical is an example of a proper wording for dice that get added, but do not get doubled, when you score a critical hit.
I realize I used some unclear language.
Found one more that got missed. The SRD says Sword of Life Stealing deals an extra 3d6 necrotic damage, while the DMG says 10.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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