I'm starting a campaign soon (homebrew setting) and I've got a player who's really excited about playing an Artificer. I'm theoretically okay with having an Artificer class in the setting, but there are a LOT of class features I've never seen, and I'm not sure how powerful the total package is. Most of the features look alright by themselves, but the Artificer seems to get more toys to play with than any other class I've seen. Is it too much?
In particular, the Spell Storing Item worries me. An item with any 1st or 2nd level spell from the Artificer Spell list, with twice the Artificer's INT modifier worth of uses. That he can give to another character. And if it requires concentration, they concentrate on it, not the Artificer. This looks like a potential game-breaker to me.
It's like, hey, here's eight (or maybe ten) spell slots on a stick! And it costs the Artificer nothing, as long as they have a mundane object they can touch and give away to someone. They don't even need to have the chosen spell prepared!
Am I missing something here or is this ridiculously overpowered?
I think artificers are pretty good with utility options and are a great support for the party. I don't think there is anything too crazy going on with any of their features. I will say you may need to adjust how you hand out items. With an artificer you might drop blueprints from some arcane engineer or artificer of old which leads to sidequests to craft items. This is a good way to engage the class. Potential SSI options: Healing word, Cure Wounds, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Disguise Self, Grease, Alter Self, Dark Vision, Enhance Ability, Enlarge/Reduce, Heat Metal, Invisibility, Lesser Restoration, Spider Climb, and Web. Some of these options for SSI are not very strong and the ones I didn't include I felt had even more of a limited use. While some of these options can be strong the problem is that the feature comes on at level 11. I think the feature helps give the artificer more of a caster feel to seperate itself from the martial aspects of paladin or ranger.
I think others are missing the potential of Spell Storing Item. When the Artificer gives an item with a concentration spell to another character, the character using the item is the one who concentrates on the spell. My main concern is handing off items to Fighters and other non-casters with good Constitution saves. All of a sudden they've got a spell item with 8 to 10 charges, they don't need to concentrate on anything else so this isn't a problem for them to begin with, and they're unlikely to fail a Concentration check anyway. Look, free Enhanced Abililty all day long! Or 10 Enlarge spells for the grappling specialist Champion! Here's 10 uses of Invisibility for the Assassin Rogue. (Like he's gonna need a Concentration check for that?) Explain to me again how this isn't a freaking game breaker?
I mean there aren't many spells that could be abused by having a good con save. Artificers get Flash of Genius which will help with saves and they can create an amulet of health at 14 to get a 19 Con. What are you afraid they won't stop concentrating on spider climb, heat metal, or enlarge/reduce. I think the strongest use of the SSI is to store cure wounds for 10d8 healing +10 x int mod over the course of a minute.
Flash of Genius
Starting at 7th level, you gain the ability to come up with solutions under pressure. When you or another creature you can see within 30 feet of you makes an ability check or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to add your Intelligence modifier to the roll.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Also Invisibility doesn't mean undetectable. If they attack they lose it and it takes an action to recast. If they know you are there and invisible assassins don't get the autocrit feature. Also at the 3rd tier of play I wouldn't be surprised if there are glyphs or barriers that will detect an invisible creature's presence or enemies with truesight.
Yeah, artificers get the ability pretty late on, and they don't have many spells that can be abused this way. Maybe if they have added spell lists, but I don't think this is a huge deal.
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The key with SSI balance wise is that it comes in tier 3 and there isn't any problematic spells on the Artificer spell list that can break the game with SSI. If a SSI is potentially breaking your game then I'd be wary of Wizards and handing out a Ring of Spell Storing.
The spell storing item isn't that broken. Having played as an artificer with it and DMed, all it does is give a little bit of utility. A warlock, for example, at level 15 can cast invisibility at will, giving that rogue the same constant invisibility so they can go ahead and scout.
In combat, it's largely useless unless you're trying to run away. This item allows anyone to use it, so long as they themselves have the item. But that's the stipulation. It's an item that can be used cleverly, but can also go poorly (it has to be a weapon or arcane focus. You get arrested those get taken away, there goes that. The warlock can keep casting though.)
Healing word doesn't work, as it has to be an action based spell.
In one of my games I stored Cure Wounds, because we didn't habe a healer. It amounts to 10d8+50 healing, but takes an action to cast it just once. Outside of combat, it can be really handy. Slightly better then the Paladin lay on hands to keep the party going. But again, nothing breaking.
Before you decide to remove a core class feature, let it be used in your game. If it's abused, talk with the player about how to make it fair. I personally don't think it'll mess with anything (again, artificer is support. Their spells are largely concentration. This gives them the ability to buff multiple allies at the cost of their own concentration.) But who knows!
Just remember that the spell stored has to be cast as an action. Shield, healing word, etc don't work.
What were you looking for here? You wanted to know if a feature was overpowered before you got a chance to see it in play, the consenus is that it isn't. Is there a particular combo that's worrying you or something?
You wanted someone else to tell you that Spell-Storing item is blatantly overpowered and you should deny your player the chance to play the class because of it?
All right. Spell-Storing Item is blatantly overpowered and you should deny your player the chance to play an Artificer because of it. You have my official permission to tell your player that someone on DDB said they agreed with you and he shouldn't play an artificer because it's Bad For Game.
*
Now that we've dispensed with what you were looking for, back to the actual discussion. In my view, there's nothing wrong with SSI that isn't also wrong with a Ring of Spell Storing or several other magic items that give free and unlimited casts of various spells. Letting the fighter concentrate on something with a "free" spell slot is not going to break your game because the fighter can already concentrate on something via RoSS, and that hasn't broken anybody's game yet. WiRogues with "ten free Invisibilities" have not broken any games when they can instead get ten free invisibilities followed by infinitely more free Invisibilities with a Ring of Invisibility.
The requirements for SSI (Cast time of 1 action, artificer spell, 1st or 2nd level) limits the shenanery the ability can get up to. No ten free Shields/Absorb Elements, no ten free Alarms or whatever. Trust me man, people have been looking over the ability with a fine-toothed comb ever since it was printed and nobody's found a game-breaker yet that's any worse than what people can do with Greater Arcana spells and a little bit of creativity. If game balance couldn't tolerate fighters, rangers, or other martial characters concentrating on a spell, then Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters, or the entire Ranger or Paladin classes wouldn't exist.
It's fine. Wizards have double the spell slots of any given equal-level artificer, and half of those slots will be higher than what the artificer has. Giving an artificer ten "free" copies of a single first or second-level spell of choice that can be handed off to someone else at need is not going to do anything to a game that's any worse than what a sufficiently inventive wizard player could get up to.
It would be waaaaayyyy too powerful if it allowed even 3rd level spells. This would make it OP, but it isn't as is. It just gives artificers just a bit more versatility, like they deserve.
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Spell storing item is just a lesser form of spell mastery thematic to the artificer shtick. The real benfits are:
1) Another character / NPC can use the SSI. This allows an additional concentration spell in the party from a character who would not have that option or someone using an artificer spell if the artificer cannot for some reason.
2) The SSI uses the "use an item" action instead of the "cast a spell" action. An example of this being useful is the extra action provided by haste.
3) The SSI requires an action and holding the item. It does not require components like verbalizing or somatics. It will work just fine in silence, for example.
4) The item can be something a character would be holding anyway. The number of items that can be used as a casting focus or a weapon means the item could be in hand. No swap or drop.
On the surface it looks like it's more spell slots but the mechanics have a lot of situational benefits. It's a great ability. Not OP because of the limited spells applied to it but still a very solid ability.
I have to ask btw the RAW states that "At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and store a spell in it, choosing one 1st- or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn't to have it prepared). While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell's effect from it using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, that creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it has been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object." so my question is can you store spells in magical weapons like a +1 weapon or frostbrand sword, because nowhere dose it say it needs to be mundane or have i missed an errata?
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I'm starting a campaign soon (homebrew setting) and I've got a player who's really excited about playing an Artificer. I'm theoretically okay with having an Artificer class in the setting, but there are a LOT of class features I've never seen, and I'm not sure how powerful the total package is. Most of the features look alright by themselves, but the Artificer seems to get more toys to play with than any other class I've seen. Is it too much?
In particular, the Spell Storing Item worries me. An item with any 1st or 2nd level spell from the Artificer Spell list, with twice the Artificer's INT modifier worth of uses. That he can give to another character. And if it requires concentration, they concentrate on it, not the Artificer. This looks like a potential game-breaker to me.
It's like, hey, here's eight (or maybe ten) spell slots on a stick! And it costs the Artificer nothing, as long as they have a mundane object they can touch and give away to someone. They don't even need to have the chosen spell prepared!
Am I missing something here or is this ridiculously overpowered?
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
I think artificers are pretty good with utility options and are a great support for the party. I don't think there is anything too crazy going on with any of their features. I will say you may need to adjust how you hand out items. With an artificer you might drop blueprints from some arcane engineer or artificer of old which leads to sidequests to craft items. This is a good way to engage the class. Potential SSI options: Healing word, Cure Wounds, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Disguise Self, Grease, Alter Self, Dark Vision, Enhance Ability, Enlarge/Reduce, Heat Metal, Invisibility, Lesser Restoration, Spider Climb, and Web. Some of these options for SSI are not very strong and the ones I didn't include I felt had even more of a limited use. While some of these options can be strong the problem is that the feature comes on at level 11. I think the feature helps give the artificer more of a caster feel to seperate itself from the martial aspects of paladin or ranger.
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
I think others are missing the potential of Spell Storing Item. When the Artificer gives an item with a concentration spell to another character, the character using the item is the one who concentrates on the spell. My main concern is handing off items to Fighters and other non-casters with good Constitution saves. All of a sudden they've got a spell item with 8 to 10 charges, they don't need to concentrate on anything else so this isn't a problem for them to begin with, and they're unlikely to fail a Concentration check anyway. Look, free Enhanced Abililty all day long! Or 10 Enlarge spells for the grappling specialist Champion! Here's 10 uses of Invisibility for the Assassin Rogue. (Like he's gonna need a Concentration check for that?) Explain to me again how this isn't a freaking game breaker?
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
I mean there aren't many spells that could be abused by having a good con save. Artificers get Flash of Genius which will help with saves and they can create an amulet of health at 14 to get a 19 Con. What are you afraid they won't stop concentrating on spider climb, heat metal, or enlarge/reduce. I think the strongest use of the SSI is to store cure wounds for 10d8 healing +10 x int mod over the course of a minute.
Flash of Genius
Starting at 7th level, you gain the ability to come up with solutions under pressure. When you or another creature you can see within 30 feet of you makes an ability check or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to add your Intelligence modifier to the roll.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
Also Invisibility doesn't mean undetectable. If they attack they lose it and it takes an action to recast. If they know you are there and invisible assassins don't get the autocrit feature. Also at the 3rd tier of play I wouldn't be surprised if there are glyphs or barriers that will detect an invisible creature's presence or enemies with truesight.
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
Yeah, artificers get the ability pretty late on, and they don't have many spells that can be abused this way. Maybe if they have added spell lists, but I don't think this is a huge deal.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The key with SSI balance wise is that it comes in tier 3 and there isn't any problematic spells on the Artificer spell list that can break the game with SSI. If a SSI is potentially breaking your game then I'd be wary of Wizards and handing out a Ring of Spell Storing.
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Well, this was a complete waste of time.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
The spell storing item isn't that broken. Having played as an artificer with it and DMed, all it does is give a little bit of utility. A warlock, for example, at level 15 can cast invisibility at will, giving that rogue the same constant invisibility so they can go ahead and scout.
In combat, it's largely useless unless you're trying to run away. This item allows anyone to use it, so long as they themselves have the item. But that's the stipulation. It's an item that can be used cleverly, but can also go poorly (it has to be a weapon or arcane focus. You get arrested those get taken away, there goes that. The warlock can keep casting though.)
Healing word doesn't work, as it has to be an action based spell.
In one of my games I stored Cure Wounds, because we didn't habe a healer. It amounts to 10d8+50 healing, but takes an action to cast it just once. Outside of combat, it can be really handy. Slightly better then the Paladin lay on hands to keep the party going. But again, nothing breaking.
Before you decide to remove a core class feature, let it be used in your game. If it's abused, talk with the player about how to make it fair. I personally don't think it'll mess with anything (again, artificer is support. Their spells are largely concentration. This gives them the ability to buff multiple allies at the cost of their own concentration.) But who knows!
Just remember that the spell stored has to be cast as an action. Shield, healing word, etc don't work.
What were you looking for here? You wanted to know if a feature was overpowered before you got a chance to see it in play, the consenus is that it isn't. Is there a particular combo that's worrying you or something?
Subscribe to our channel for character builds, roleplay and DM tips: www.youtube.com/c/dorkforge
Interested in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Check out our playlist on Youtube
Please feel free to message us with any requests or build challenges!
You wanted someone else to tell you that Spell-Storing item is blatantly overpowered and you should deny your player the chance to play the class because of it?
All right. Spell-Storing Item is blatantly overpowered and you should deny your player the chance to play an Artificer because of it. You have my official permission to tell your player that someone on DDB said they agreed with you and he shouldn't play an artificer because it's Bad For Game.
*
Now that we've dispensed with what you were looking for, back to the actual discussion. In my view, there's nothing wrong with SSI that isn't also wrong with a Ring of Spell Storing or several other magic items that give free and unlimited casts of various spells. Letting the fighter concentrate on something with a "free" spell slot is not going to break your game because the fighter can already concentrate on something via RoSS, and that hasn't broken anybody's game yet. WiRogues with "ten free Invisibilities" have not broken any games when they can instead get ten free invisibilities followed by infinitely more free Invisibilities with a Ring of Invisibility.
The requirements for SSI (Cast time of 1 action, artificer spell, 1st or 2nd level) limits the shenanery the ability can get up to. No ten free Shields/Absorb Elements, no ten free Alarms or whatever. Trust me man, people have been looking over the ability with a fine-toothed comb ever since it was printed and nobody's found a game-breaker yet that's any worse than what people can do with Greater Arcana spells and a little bit of creativity. If game balance couldn't tolerate fighters, rangers, or other martial characters concentrating on a spell, then Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters, or the entire Ranger or Paladin classes wouldn't exist.
It's fine. Wizards have double the spell slots of any given equal-level artificer, and half of those slots will be higher than what the artificer has. Giving an artificer ten "free" copies of a single first or second-level spell of choice that can be handed off to someone else at need is not going to do anything to a game that's any worse than what a sufficiently inventive wizard player could get up to.
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It would be waaaaayyyy too powerful if it allowed even 3rd level spells. This would make it OP, but it isn't as is. It just gives artificers just a bit more versatility, like they deserve.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Spell storing item is just a lesser form of spell mastery thematic to the artificer shtick. The real benfits are:
1) Another character / NPC can use the SSI. This allows an additional concentration spell in the party from a character who would not have that option or someone using an artificer spell if the artificer cannot for some reason.
2) The SSI uses the "use an item" action instead of the "cast a spell" action. An example of this being useful is the extra action provided by haste.
3) The SSI requires an action and holding the item. It does not require components like verbalizing or somatics. It will work just fine in silence, for example.
4) The item can be something a character would be holding anyway. The number of items that can be used as a casting focus or a weapon means the item could be in hand. No swap or drop.
On the surface it looks like it's more spell slots but the mechanics have a lot of situational benefits. It's a great ability. Not OP because of the limited spells applied to it but still a very solid ability.
Could it potentially mean the artificer create an object with Invisibility and pass it around the whole party so everyone's invisible??
RAW says
While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell’s effect from it…
but does that imply if you’re not holding the object you no longer produce the effect??
or can everyone in the party have a go at the mystical vanishing wrench and all vanish ???
Everyone can use it. They just have to hold it to activate it at first, not to maintain it.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I have to ask btw the RAW states that "At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and store a spell in it, choosing one 1st- or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn't to have it prepared). While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell's effect from it using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, that creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it has been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object." so my question is can you store spells in magical weapons like a +1 weapon or frostbrand sword, because nowhere dose it say it needs to be mundane or have i missed an errata?