Is anybody else bothered by the Barbarian option to change totem effect at certain levels?
When the Barbarian chooses his first totem, he must acquire a totem item- perhaps a bear claw or an eagle feather. He also gains the low level benefit while a minor aspect of his body begins to look like his totem animal choice.
With all this input and result surrounding the Barbarian's totem choice, I find the option to choose a different totem effect later on to be contrary to the theme. Once a wolf, always a wolf.
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I really like the fact that the barbarian isn't forced to stick with the same animal totem - it's a choice, whether for stats or thematic role-play, the player gets to choose, which is great.
Personally, I think of it as the more experienced Barbarian being in tune with more animal spirits that they can call upon to imbue them with totem powers.
In your example, my barbarian isn't a wolf - my barbarian has formed a bond with the wolf spirit and can call upon powers from the wolf totem, but at high levels, he also bonds with the bear spirit and can call upon powers from the bear totem as well.
The barbarian I played did indeed acquire additional totemic features.
The RP effects were played as changes to the features of the character, as well as special effects.
I took Tiger as my first (from SCAG - gives empowered leaps) which I RP'd as the character had more of the demeanour of a Tiger - the apex predator. His eyes also changed to be golden and cat-like. Whenever he used the leaping power, there was a Tiger roar and brief outline of a ghostly Tiger super-imposed over him.
The 2nd totem I picked was Wolf, which I described as my character growing more facial hair (think Marvel comics Wolverine) and whenever the stealth comes into play, there are the odd wolf howl's off in the distance.
Here's another possible options too - though this is homebrew rules. For a campaign I was running, my wife is playing a Totem Barbarian and instead of just getting her to pick which totem she wants, I have introduced spiritual quests, which need to be completed to unlock each totem at each level. Think of them as achievements - the first bear one involved wrestling a larger foe to the ground unaided.
Then, I allow her to change which totems she is attuned to with a long rest. This has worked out quite cool, because there are several that are great for overland travel as a group, but not much use if spending several sessions in a catacomb.
I had a barbarian that had an actual totem that he whittled himself, and was carried on a leather strap as a necklace. Each level of the totem had an aspect that was interchangeable with the others. Throughout the game, he would periodically collaborate with artisans, improving his wood carving skills, so that each new totem would be better crafted than the last.
The way I look at it, is that it’s good that you don’t have to stick with one specific totem if you don’t want to. My barbarian has been bear the whole way because is fit with his personality
Because this way I can say that I'm making a tiger by picking and selecting appropriate features instead of being stuck with being a bear or wolf or whatever.
I don't see it as changing totem, but more you are building onto a metaphorical totem. Think the wooden carved totems that you see out there. On the bottom you have x creature, then in the middle you have another, and so on till you reach the top. Each creature represents a different aspect in the "totem".
Another way to look at it is that there are actually more than 3 animals that exist. Perhaps your totem animal is a stag, with the dash of an eagle, might of a bear, and knock prone ability of a wolf. Or some sort of ancient owl, with resistance of a bear, hunting prowess of a wolf, and flight of the eagle.
I recently built a barbarian (have yet to use him), and plan on using a crocodile as his totem spirit. I've chosen the bear spirit effect at level 3 because my characters skin becomes rock hard and scaly like that of a crocodile, so magical effects like fire and frost don't effect him as much. At level 6, I'll have him use the aspect of the wolf effect, because crocodiles naturally move stealthily in water.
I believe you can choose any effect you want, and can justify it completely fine keeping the same spirit if you want to.
I've had 2 barbarians, one with a griffin totem, and one with an owlbear as totem. Picking different animals each time made sense to me for that kind of totem. Like my owlbear totem was bear at 3rd and eagle at 6th.
Hey quick question, sorry if its an obvious one. When you reach 6th level and have the option to choose a second spirit animal, do you think it would fair if you could choose to switch to its former ability instead?
So for example if my Barb choose bear for 3rd, and wolf for 6th, could i then choose to use the 3rd level ability of the wolf instead of the 6th? Or am i stuck using 3rd bear and 6th wolf unless i spend aforementioned long rest to change them into different totems entirely? Because honestly, im not personally really a fan of any of the level 6 totem abilities. Would it be to op to choose two 3rd options instead of one 3rd option, bear and one 6th option, wolf? My DM would probably be cool with this change it but i want other peoples opinion on it before i bring it to him.
Swapping them around on a long rest seems a way to allow them to actually make changes to the environment after selection. Little less thematic, but if it is intended to be a connection to the natural world, where nature imbues them with gifts. Helps also give others a bit more appeal. Since Stag to help with travel time is a little cared for thing unless utilized. Or seeing clearly a mile away when on a boat in case the party doesn't have a ranger to climb a tree.
Plus with an option to swap them around on a long rest, it doesn't exactly seem outlandish. Just meditate to let the spirits fuel you. At higher levels, your body can sustain two of em for those higher level effects.
For the choice, you take the options at the level you get them. However first set at level 3 are more combat oriented, while level 6 options are more out of combat utility. Sort of tough to look at others when half all but one type of damage is incredibly strong, and carry weight tends to be whatever you roll on a dice unless the number gets utilized a lot. But can't hurt to ask you DM.
Mechanically is what allows you to simply pick a new one, Which both does and doesn't fly in the face of the Theme at the same time and there are many ways to reconcile it. It could be effectively like a native american totem with several animals portrayed in a hierarchy but there is also the thematic issue that there are Tribes that might be dedicated to mixed animals such as the Owlbear, the Griffon, and there's a wolf mix that is just slipping my mind right now. With totems like this it's very fitting to have one level be that of Bear or Tiger and the Next level being that of Owl without moving away from the idea of a single animal. Being able to mix and match gives a little more variety to the specifics that the Totem barbarian is getting without having to create a new set of abilities for each and every possible totem.
Hey quick question, sorry if its an obvious one. When you reach 6th level and have the option to choose a second spirit animal, do you think it would fair if you could choose to switch to its former ability instead?
So for example if my Barb choose bear for 3rd, and wolf for 6th, could i then choose to use the 3rd level ability of the wolf instead of the 6th? Or am i stuck using 3rd bear and 6th wolf unless i spend aforementioned long rest to change them into different totems entirely? Because honestly, im not personally really a fan of any of the level 6 totem abilities. Would it be to op to choose two 3rd options instead of one 3rd option, bear and one 6th option, wolf? My DM would probably be cool with this change it but i want other peoples opinion on it before i bring it to him.
your picking purely from the abilities allowed at that level. 5e doesn't let you pick things from the previous level of options like older editions used to allow you to do. And they've been set up to kind of balance against each other and be more balanced in general. But what your DM and you do at your own table purely as homebrew is between you and your DM.
Hey quick question, sorry if its an obvious one. When you reach 6th level and have the option to choose a second spirit animal, do you think it would fair if you could choose to switch to its former ability instead?
So for example if my Barb choose bear for 3rd, and wolf for 6th, could i then choose to use the 3rd level ability of the wolf instead of the 6th? Or am i stuck using 3rd bear and 6th wolf unless i spend aforementioned long rest to change them into different totems entirely? Because honestly, im not personally really a fan of any of the level 6 totem abilities. Would it be to op to choose two 3rd options instead of one 3rd option, bear and one 6th option, wolf? My DM would probably be cool with this change it but i want other peoples opinion on it before i bring it to him.
At 6th level, you must use a 6th level option. None of the 6th level options are combat features. They are supposed to be out-of-combat "adventuring" skills. Choosing a 3rd level ability at 6th would result in a character with significantly more combat power than one choosing a 6th level option.
Whether it would be OP is open to discussion, and your DM can allow what they want, but it is not the way the subclass is supposed to work. If that was a choice, I think few people would choose one of the 6th level options. I wouldn't allow it at my table, because the entire point of the 6th level ability is supposed to be to give you something out-of-combat, not something else to make you better at smashing things.
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Is anybody else bothered by the Barbarian option to change totem effect at certain levels?
When the Barbarian chooses his first totem, he must acquire a totem item- perhaps a bear claw or an eagle feather. He also gains the low level benefit while a minor aspect of his body begins to look like his totem animal choice.
With all this input and result surrounding the Barbarian's totem choice, I find the option to choose a different totem effect later on to be contrary to the theme. Once a wolf, always a wolf.
You, you and you- panic. Everyone else- follow me.
I really like the fact that the barbarian isn't forced to stick with the same animal totem - it's a choice, whether for stats or thematic role-play, the player gets to choose, which is great.
Personally, I think of it as the more experienced Barbarian being in tune with more animal spirits that they can call upon to imbue them with totem powers.
In your example, my barbarian isn't a wolf - my barbarian has formed a bond with the wolf spirit and can call upon powers from the wolf totem, but at high levels, he also bonds with the bear spirit and can call upon powers from the bear totem as well.
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I understand your reasoning.
In your RP, does your Barbarian acquire an additional totem item for each new aspect?
Also, in light of my concern, could choosing a different totem animal have some sort of negative effect?
You, you and you- panic. Everyone else- follow me.
The barbarian I played did indeed acquire additional totemic features.
The RP effects were played as changes to the features of the character, as well as special effects.
I took Tiger as my first (from SCAG - gives empowered leaps) which I RP'd as the character had more of the demeanour of a Tiger - the apex predator. His eyes also changed to be golden and cat-like. Whenever he used the leaping power, there was a Tiger roar and brief outline of a ghostly Tiger super-imposed over him.
The 2nd totem I picked was Wolf, which I described as my character growing more facial hair (think Marvel comics Wolverine) and whenever the stealth comes into play, there are the odd wolf howl's off in the distance.
Here's another possible options too - though this is homebrew rules. For a campaign I was running, my wife is playing a Totem Barbarian and instead of just getting her to pick which totem she wants, I have introduced spiritual quests, which need to be completed to unlock each totem at each level. Think of them as achievements - the first bear one involved wrestling a larger foe to the ground unaided.
Then, I allow her to change which totems she is attuned to with a long rest. This has worked out quite cool, because there are several that are great for overland travel as a group, but not much use if spending several sessions in a catacomb.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Kewl ideas there, Stormknight.
You, you and you- panic. Everyone else- follow me.
I had a barbarian that had an actual totem that he whittled himself, and was carried on a leather strap as a necklace. Each level of the totem had an aspect that was interchangeable with the others. Throughout the game, he would periodically collaborate with artisans, improving his wood carving skills, so that each new totem would be better crafted than the last.
The way I look at it, is that it’s good that you don’t have to stick with one specific totem if you don’t want to. My barbarian has been bear the whole way because is fit with his personality
Because this way I can say that I'm making a tiger by picking and selecting appropriate features instead of being stuck with being a bear or wolf or whatever.
I don't see it as changing totem, but more you are building onto a metaphorical totem. Think the wooden carved totems that you see out there. On the bottom you have x creature, then in the middle you have another, and so on till you reach the top. Each creature represents a different aspect in the "totem".
Another way to look at it is that there are actually more than 3 animals that exist. Perhaps your totem animal is a stag, with the dash of an eagle, might of a bear, and knock prone ability of a wolf. Or some sort of ancient owl, with resistance of a bear, hunting prowess of a wolf, and flight of the eagle.
I recently built a barbarian (have yet to use him), and plan on using a crocodile as his totem spirit. I've chosen the bear spirit effect at level 3 because my characters skin becomes rock hard and scaly like that of a crocodile, so magical effects like fire and frost don't effect him as much. At level 6, I'll have him use the aspect of the wolf effect, because crocodiles naturally move stealthily in water.
I believe you can choose any effect you want, and can justify it completely fine keeping the same spirit if you want to.
Think Native American totem poles. The barbarian is not choosing a spirit animal, they're "building" their own magical totem pole
EDIT: I see that this exact same thing has been said already. Cheers, Draxxeon
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I've had 2 barbarians, one with a griffin totem, and one with an owlbear as totem. Picking different animals each time made sense to me for that kind of totem. Like my owlbear totem was bear at 3rd and eagle at 6th.
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Hey quick question, sorry if its an obvious one. When you reach 6th level and have the option to choose a second spirit animal, do you think it would fair if you could choose to switch to its former ability instead?
So for example if my Barb choose bear for 3rd, and wolf for 6th, could i then choose to use the 3rd level ability of the wolf instead of the 6th? Or am i stuck using 3rd bear and 6th wolf unless i spend aforementioned long rest to change them into different totems entirely? Because honestly, im not personally really a fan of any of the level 6 totem abilities. Would it be to op to choose two 3rd options instead of one 3rd option, bear and one 6th option, wolf? My DM would probably be cool with this change it but i want other peoples opinion on it before i bring it to him.
Swapping them around on a long rest seems a way to allow them to actually make changes to the environment after selection. Little less thematic, but if it is intended to be a connection to the natural world, where nature imbues them with gifts. Helps also give others a bit more appeal. Since Stag to help with travel time is a little cared for thing unless utilized. Or seeing clearly a mile away when on a boat in case the party doesn't have a ranger to climb a tree.
Plus with an option to swap them around on a long rest, it doesn't exactly seem outlandish. Just meditate to let the spirits fuel you. At higher levels, your body can sustain two of em for those higher level effects.
For the choice, you take the options at the level you get them. However first set at level 3 are more combat oriented, while level 6 options are more out of combat utility. Sort of tough to look at others when half all but one type of damage is incredibly strong, and carry weight tends to be whatever you roll on a dice unless the number gets utilized a lot. But can't hurt to ask you DM.
Mechanically is what allows you to simply pick a new one, Which both does and doesn't fly in the face of the Theme at the same time and there are many ways to reconcile it. It could be effectively like a native american totem with several animals portrayed in a hierarchy but there is also the thematic issue that there are Tribes that might be dedicated to mixed animals such as the Owlbear, the Griffon, and there's a wolf mix that is just slipping my mind right now. With totems like this it's very fitting to have one level be that of Bear or Tiger and the Next level being that of Owl without moving away from the idea of a single animal. Being able to mix and match gives a little more variety to the specifics that the Totem barbarian is getting without having to create a new set of abilities for each and every possible totem.
your picking purely from the abilities allowed at that level. 5e doesn't let you pick things from the previous level of options like older editions used to allow you to do. And they've been set up to kind of balance against each other and be more balanced in general. But what your DM and you do at your own table purely as homebrew is between you and your DM.
Not really what i was asking but ok thank you.
At 6th level, you must use a 6th level option. None of the 6th level options are combat features. They are supposed to be out-of-combat "adventuring" skills. Choosing a 3rd level ability at 6th would result in a character with significantly more combat power than one choosing a 6th level option.
Whether it would be OP is open to discussion, and your DM can allow what they want, but it is not the way the subclass is supposed to work. If that was a choice, I think few people would choose one of the 6th level options. I wouldn't allow it at my table, because the entire point of the 6th level ability is supposed to be to give you something out-of-combat, not something else to make you better at smashing things.