From what I understand in order to pickup a creature and then hit another creature with it you need to first successfully grapple the target. Then you need to be able to lift it. In PHB 195 it says that "When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you", but it doesn't mention lift or swing. I'm assuming that if you're able to lift the creature (and Aspect of the Beast(Bear) ability makes this significantly easier; though I believe it says you have adv on str checks to push, pull, lift, or break objects) then you can swing it at someone else as an improvised maul.
I'm thinking that since you're proficient with mauls that you would get to add your proficiency bonus to this improvised attack. I'm not sure how the damage would be dealt though. I think it's fair to say that if you hit your target then it would take the same 2d6+str as from a maul, but could you argue that the creature used as the "maul" would take similar damage?
I was just thinking about this as having a fun "cool" factor to it and wanted to get other people's input on if they've encountered this as a player or DM and how it went down. I'm thinking you could simply throw the grappled creature as well for a d6 of fall damage perhaps.
I think technically it would be an improvised weapon and thus fall under those rules. Love the idea though. beating someone to death with someone else.
Tavern Brawler feat is great for this. Personalty if my player took this feat and wanted to do stuff like this i would have no problem increasing the damage ranges on improvised weapons to be more inline with martial weapons.
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Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 12 (8W-4L)- - Coliseum of Conquest: Master of Faerie Fire. Just don't ask her to spell it.
Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 6 (2W-1L)- - Coliseum Reborn : Master of a Myriad of forms.
Runt, the Stormchosen: Half-Orc barbarian level 5 -- The Guild
Remember the Improvised Weapon rules are very loose. Which is nice and makes Tavern Brawler still a terrible feat.
Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.
So a tableleg should be a club, a giant's tableleg should be a great club. Because as the rule continues to state "...An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage..."
It's why when you talk about hitting an opponant with the rim of your shield, it's very arguable that anyone proficiency with the shield would know how to do this and so gain their proficiency bonus to hit. It's also close to many other weapons they are proficient with... like club.
The carrying capacity rules aren't related to grappling. You're not expected to figure out what a monster weighs mid-combat (and the Monster Manual doesn't include weight info.)
Dealing damage equivalent to a real weapon is way too generous. A maul is rigid and all the momentum if concentrated in a small area. A floppy, uncooperative creature with no small, hard surfaces isn't very useful. If you want to allow this, I'd stick to the improvised weapon rules.
Remember the Improvised Weapon rules are very loose. Which is nice and makes Tavern Brawler still a terrible feat.
Tavern Brawler is a decent feat for grappling, or for Thief Rogues that want to make the most out of thrown items like holy water or alchemist's fire.
It's why when you talk about shitting an opponant with the rim of your shield, it's very arguable that anyone proficiency with the shield would know how to do this and so gain their proficiency bonus to hit. It's also close to many other weapons they are proficient with... like club.
I don't think it's broken to give shield bashes proficiency, but doing so on the pretenses that it's club-like is really stretching the imagination. One's a heavy stick, the other's a big flat surface attached to your hand/arm.
Ok, it makes sense that a flailing humanoid (or w/e) would not be considered as an improvised maul, so no proficiency bonus and only 1d4 dmg. Still a fun option and it makes the Tavern Brawler feat more appealing in my opinion. I'm especially interested in the last part: "When you hit a creature with an improvised weapon on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to grapple the target."
So possibly hit a creature with another creature, then attempt a grapple on the hit creature and use it as another improvised weapon next turn.(Because you can grapple with a single hand, would you be dual wielding creatures at this point??)
Another question: Would any damage(1d4+str) done with an improvised weapon(creature) be applied to both the creature hit as well as the creature used as the weapon? As a physicist, I would argue yes.
Less important(silly) question: What if the improvised weapon(creature) is petrified? Maul proficiency/damage? Hehe
If there is a character build around this, I'm thinking it would be hella fun just to see in action (regardless of how much damage it can put out).
Another question: Would any damage(1d4+str) done with an improvised weapon(creature) be applied to both the creature hit as well as the creature used as the weapon? As a physicist, I would argue yes.
Less important(silly) question: What if the improvised weapon(creature) is petrified? Maul proficiency/damage? Hehe
If there is a character build around this, I'm thinking it would be hella fun just to see in action (regardless of how much damage it can put out).
Personalty i'd say yes. not sure of there is an official rule saying otherwise. but if your hitting a living being with another living being i would apply the damage to both.
For the petrified one it would depends on the state of the "weapon" in question but its possible. I always lean to the "if it sounds fun lets give it a try" camp.
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Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 12 (8W-4L)- - Coliseum of Conquest: Master of Faerie Fire. Just don't ask her to spell it.
Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 6 (2W-1L)- - Coliseum Reborn : Master of a Myriad of forms.
Runt, the Stormchosen: Half-Orc barbarian level 5 -- The Guild
Our DM was super rule based and loved saying no to things that were super small but against the rules. But one time I asked to punch two dudes in action. He said no but I told him to look in the players handbook. He looked with a frown. The thing is Grappling someone (picking up) is a combat action, sooooo, if you were to take the unarmed strike with two hands, it would be dual wielding. So you can use a bonus action to hit the other guy!!!!!!!!
Our DM was super rule based and loved saying no to things that were super small but against the rules. But one time I asked to punch two dudes in action. He said no but I told him to look in the players handbook. He looked with a frown. The thing is Grappling someone (picking up) is a combat action, sooooo, if you were to take the unarmed strike with two hands, it would be dual wielding. So you can use a bonus action to hit the other guy!!!!!!!!
No.
The only person that can punch twice in a round is a Monk. It's arguable that Dual Wielder could let you do it, but it's not efficient.
Unarmed attacks are NOT light weapons so you can't use Two Weapon Fighting with them. Monks can get away with it, because they have Monk Weapons. Dual Wielder lets you ignore the "light" requirement, so you could attack with a bonus action, but you're not hold weapons so you don't get +1 AC for that.
The Grapple Rules are totally seperate and require a creature no bigger then 1 size larger, within reach, and at least 1 free hand. It says you can drag creatures, but it's not specific about forcing them in any other direction, much less throwing them. That would be a Shove.
From what I understand in order to pickup a creature and then hit another creature with it you need to first successfully grapple the target. Then you need to be able to lift it. In PHB 195 it says that "When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you", but it doesn't mention lift or swing. I'm assuming that if you're able to lift the creature (and Aspect of the Beast(Bear) ability makes this significantly easier; though I believe it says you have adv on str checks to push, pull, lift, or break objects) then you can swing it at someone else as an improvised maul.
I'm thinking that since you're proficient with mauls that you would get to add your proficiency bonus to this improvised attack. I'm not sure how the damage would be dealt though. I think it's fair to say that if you hit your target then it would take the same 2d6+str as from a maul, but could you argue that the creature used as the "maul" would take similar damage?
I was just thinking about this as having a fun "cool" factor to it and wanted to get other people's input on if they've encountered this as a player or DM and how it went down. I'm thinking you could simply throw the grappled creature as well for a d6 of fall damage perhaps.
I think technically it would be an improvised weapon and thus fall under those rules. Love the idea though. beating someone to death with someone else.
Tavern Brawler feat is great for this. Personalty if my player took this feat and wanted to do stuff like this i would have no problem increasing the damage ranges on improvised weapons to be more inline with martial weapons.
Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 12 (8W-4L)- - Coliseum of Conquest: Master of Faerie Fire. Just don't ask her to spell it.
Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 6 (2W-1L)- - Coliseum Reborn : Master of a Myriad of forms.
Runt, the Stormchosen: Half-Orc barbarian level 5 -- The Guild
Tomoe Gozen: Human Fighter Samurai level 5 -- Cronero (Solo Campaign)
Remember the Improvised Weapon rules are very loose. Which is nice and makes Tavern Brawler still a terrible feat.
So a tableleg should be a club, a giant's tableleg should be a great club. Because as the rule continues to state "...An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage..."
It's why when you talk about hitting an opponant with the rim of your shield, it's very arguable that anyone proficiency with the shield would know how to do this and so gain their proficiency bonus to hit. It's also close to many other weapons they are proficient with... like club.
Tavern Brawler is a decent feat for grappling, or for Thief Rogues that want to make the most out of thrown items like holy water or alchemist's fire.
Ok, it makes sense that a flailing humanoid (or w/e) would not be considered as an improvised maul, so no proficiency bonus and only 1d4 dmg. Still a fun option and it makes the Tavern Brawler feat more appealing in my opinion. I'm especially interested in the last part: "When you hit a creature with an improvised weapon on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to grapple the target."
So possibly hit a creature with another creature, then attempt a grapple on the hit creature and use it as another improvised weapon next turn.(Because you can grapple with a single hand, would you be dual wielding creatures at this point??)
Another question: Would any damage(1d4+str) done with an improvised weapon(creature) be applied to both the creature hit as well as the creature used as the weapon? As a physicist, I would argue yes.
Less important(silly) question: What if the improvised weapon(creature) is petrified? Maul proficiency/damage? Hehe
If there is a character build around this, I'm thinking it would be hella fun just to see in action (regardless of how much damage it can put out).
numbers and efficiency aside; can you imagine someone duel-wielding a couple of guys swinging them around like clubs.
"BEHOLD OGG THE MIGHTY!!" smashes both person clubs into another person " WIELDER OF THE LIVING BLUDGEON!!"
Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 12 (8W-4L)- - Coliseum of Conquest: Master of Faerie Fire. Just don't ask her to spell it.
Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 6 (2W-1L)- - Coliseum Reborn : Master of a Myriad of forms.
Runt, the Stormchosen: Half-Orc barbarian level 5 -- The Guild
Tomoe Gozen: Human Fighter Samurai level 5 -- Cronero (Solo Campaign)
Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 12 (8W-4L)- - Coliseum of Conquest: Master of Faerie Fire. Just don't ask her to spell it.
Grianne Wildpaw: Wood Elf Druid level 6 (2W-1L)- - Coliseum Reborn : Master of a Myriad of forms.
Runt, the Stormchosen: Half-Orc barbarian level 5 -- The Guild
Tomoe Gozen: Human Fighter Samurai level 5 -- Cronero (Solo Campaign)
Our DM was super rule based and loved saying no to things that were super small but against the rules. But one time I asked to punch two dudes in action. He said no but I told him to look in the players handbook. He looked with a frown. The thing is Grappling someone (picking up) is a combat action, sooooo, if you were to take the unarmed strike with two hands, it would be dual wielding. So you can use a bonus action to hit the other guy!!!!!!!!
No.
The only person that can punch twice in a round is a Monk.
It's arguable that Dual Wielder could let you do it, but it's not efficient.
Unarmed attacks are NOT light weapons so you can't use Two Weapon Fighting with them.
Monks can get away with it, because they have Monk Weapons.
Dual Wielder lets you ignore the "light" requirement, so you could attack with a bonus action, but you're not hold weapons so you don't get +1 AC for that.
The Grapple Rules are totally seperate and require a creature no bigger then 1 size larger, within reach, and at least 1 free hand.
It says you can drag creatures, but it's not specific about forcing them in any other direction, much less throwing them. That would be a Shove.