So, at 15th level, a Barbarian gets Persistent Rage: "Beginning at 15th level, your rage is so fierce that it ends early only if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it."
At 14th level for the Zealot: "While you’re raging, having 0 hit points doesn’t knock you unconscious. You still must make death saving throws, and you suffer the normal effects of taking damage while at 0 hit points. However, if you would die due to failing death saving throws, you don’t die until your rage ends, and you die then only if you still have 0 hit points."
So, at 15th level, the Zealot can persistently rage and keep soaking up damage at 0 hit points with no ill effects, right? I mean, eventually the barbarian will have to stop raging (they can't stay up forever and would start accumulating exhaustion levels), but it seems pretty amazing that they can soak up unlimited amounts of damage and keep going.
Or if the initial hit that forced you to 0 HPs had enough left over damage to equal your max HPs (insta death for anyone) although that should be unlikely with a Barb unless their HP rolls have been really bad. I think the most damage one spell can do is 180 for a barbarian raging ( Meteor Swarm - 20d6 fire and 20d6 bludgeoning/halved for raging)
Or for extreme damage - the Improvised Damage table from the DMG has a max of 24d10 - still not an out of reach HP max for a high level Barb with 20 CON and the luckiest dice known to mankind on the rolls (15xd12 for rolled + 15x5 for CON = 255 MAX - more if a hill dwarf and more again if the Tough feat has been taken)
So, at 15th level, a Barbarian gets Persistent Rage: "Beginning at 15th level, your rage is so fierce that it ends early only if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it."
At 14th level for the Zealot: "While you’re raging, having 0 hit points doesn’t knock you unconscious. You still must make death saving throws, and you suffer the normal effects of taking damage while at 0 hit points. However, if you would die due to failing death saving throws, you don’t die until your rage ends, and you die then only if you still have 0 hit points."
So, at 15th level, the Zealot can persistently rage and keep soaking up damage at 0 hit points with no ill effects, right? I mean, eventually the barbarian will have to stop raging (they can't stay up forever and would start accumulating exhaustion levels), but it seems pretty amazing that they can soak up unlimited amounts of damage and keep going.
I am curious on the bolded bit (my emphasis) - does this mean that at the end of the combat, despite being 0 HPs and failing 3 death saving throws, I could chug a healing potion before I end my rage and therefore be back in the land of the living?
So, at 15th level, a Barbarian gets Persistent Rage: "Beginning at 15th level, your rage is so fierce that it ends early only if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it."
At 14th level for the Zealot: "While you’re raging, having 0 hit points doesn’t knock you unconscious. You still must make death saving throws, and you suffer the normal effects of taking damage while at 0 hit points. However, if you would die due to failing death saving throws, you don’t die until your rage ends, and you die then only if you still have 0 hit points."
So, at 15th level, the Zealot can persistently rage and keep soaking up damage at 0 hit points with no ill effects, right? I mean, eventually the barbarian will have to stop raging (they can't stay up forever and would start accumulating exhaustion levels), but it seems pretty amazing that they can soak up unlimited amounts of damage and keep going.
I am curious on the bolded bit (my emphasis) - does this mean that at the end of the combat, despite being 0 HPs and failing 3 death saving throws, I could chug a healing potion before I end my rage and therefore be back in the land of the living?
That's my read. Or, you can keep raging and walk around at 0 hitpoints.
I wouldn't say you're unkillable. That said. You're very hard to kill. That said it's a Barbarian... that's the point.
Reading Rage beyond Death.
Let's say for the sake of argument, on the 1st turn of combat the Barbarian Rages and before her next turn she is reduced to 0 hp and takes 3 more damaging attacks and so has officially failed 3 death saves all on the first round of combat.
At this point she has already failed 3 death saving throws, so she doesn't take anymore. She's "dead" but still up because of Rage beyond Death.
I would agree with filcat, only effects that cause instant death will stop the Barbarian. So if she take her total maximum hp in a single attack, if affected by Power Word Kill or Disintegrate spell, Beholder disintegration eye beam, etc...
The Barbarian has 9 rounds of combat to regain a single hp or she dies at the end of her rage.
9 rounds? why such a specific limit? Persistent Rage means the rage lasts until the Barbarian says it ends or they fall unconscious, which they cannot do due to Rage beyond death
Your rage lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action.
Rage last for 1 minute (10 round). It ends early if you are knocked unconscious It ends early if you haven't attack a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then It ends early if you spend a Bonus Action
Rage beyond Death only negates the knocked unconscious condition as an early end to your Rage. It doesn't affect anything else.
I wouldn't say you're unkillable. That said. You're very hard to kill. That said it's a Barbarian... that's the point.
Reading Rage beyond Death.
Let's say for the sake of argument, on the 1st turn of combat the Barbarian Rages and before her next turn she is reduced to 0 hp and takes 3 more damaging attacks and so has officially failed 3 death saves all on the first round of combat.
At this point she has already failed 3 death saving throws, so she doesn't take anymore. She's "dead" but still up because of Rage beyond Death.
I would agree with filcat, only effects that cause instant death will stop the Barbarian. So if she take her total maximum hp in a single attack, if affected by Power Word Kill or Disintegrate spell, Beholder disintegration eye beam, etc...
The Barbarian has 9 rounds of combat to regain a single hp or she dies at the end of her rage.
Her rage never ends, though (at least, not as long as she can stay awake). That was my point. Nothing can stop her except a single attack that deals her hitpoint max, disintegrate, a wish, and maybe a few other magical effects or poisonous effects that would knock her out.
I guess that brings up an interesting point - could an enemy choose to deal non-lethal damage and knock out the raging barbarian? This would end the rage and cause death, and thus be much more lethal than lethal damage. It seems like that would be rules-lawyering that leads to a ridiculous result.
Your rage lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action.
Rage last for 1 minute (10 round). It ends early if you are knocked unconscious It ends early if you haven't attack a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then It ends early if you spend a Bonus Action
Rage beyond Death only negates the knocked unconscious condition as an early end to your Rage. It doesn't affect anything else.
A Barbarian CAN spend a Bonus Action to reactive Rage while still Raging to reset the 1 minute timeout.
Read Persistent Rage again: "Beginning at 15th level, your rage is so fierce that it ends early only if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it."
EDIT: Taking my own advice, I reread Persistent Rage. I was reading it to mean it lasts indefinitely unless you choose to end it - reading it again, I see that the "persistence" only allows you to prevent it from ending early. My bad.
So, we can't rage forever unless we take Barbarian to level 20. Then, can't they just rage again every 10 rounds? That seems to be the only thing keeping them from being unstoppable. Oh, and they pretty much have to either be Aasimar (self-heal before long rest), Elf or Half-Elf (no involuntary sleeping). Of course, they can still be one-hit killed but out of all the classes they're still the best equipped for that. Even if they are one-hit killed, anyone with Revivify can pick them back up seeing as they don't need any material components from an earlier feature.
When your definition of unstoppable is "unless someone casts a save or suck spell on me" I find it less than compelling. Such high level threats usually have some kind of magical back up to them. Or, in the case of a dragon that hasn't been given sorcery or the Tarrasque, we could just bite them in half. I don't care how much you Rage when your brain meats have been crunched open.
Its the same white room theorycraft that people claim that max level moon druids are invincible, reducing everything to just DPR and zero tactics of any other kind.
'I turn into a Rage monster and roam about the battlefield inflicting terrible damage even at 1 HP because I'm effectively immortal mwahahahaha!'
DM: The enemy mage casts Wall of Force in a dome over you. Have fun raging all by yourself for the next ten minutes while he uses Shape Earth or Shape Stone to build a pit to keep you in.
'Unkillable' is NOT the same thing as 'unbeatable'...it just means you have to change your definition of the word 'defeat'.
So, at 15th level, a Barbarian gets Persistent Rage: "Beginning at 15th level, your rage is so fierce that it ends early only if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it."
At 14th level for the Zealot: "While you’re raging, having 0 hit points doesn’t knock you unconscious. You still must make death saving throws, and you suffer the normal effects of taking damage while at 0 hit points. However, if you would die due to failing death saving throws, you don’t die until your rage ends, and you die then only if you still have 0 hit points."
So, at 15th level, the Zealot can persistently rage and keep soaking up damage at 0 hit points with no ill effects, right? I mean, eventually the barbarian will have to stop raging (they can't stay up forever and would start accumulating exhaustion levels), but it seems pretty amazing that they can soak up unlimited amounts of damage and keep going.
It still can be killed with spells like disintegrate.
Or if the initial hit that forced you to 0 HPs had enough left over damage to equal your max HPs (insta death for anyone) although that should be unlikely with a Barb unless their HP rolls have been really bad. I think the most damage one spell can do is 180 for a barbarian raging ( Meteor Swarm - 20d6 fire and 20d6 bludgeoning/halved for raging)
Or for extreme damage - the Improvised Damage table from the DMG has a max of 24d10 - still not an out of reach HP max for a high level Barb with 20 CON and the luckiest dice known to mankind on the rolls (15xd12 for rolled + 15x5 for CON = 255 MAX - more if a hill dwarf and more again if the Tough feat has been taken)
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I am curious on the bolded bit (my emphasis) - does this mean that at the end of the combat, despite being 0 HPs and failing 3 death saving throws, I could chug a healing potion before I end my rage and therefore be back in the land of the living?
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That's my read. Or, you can keep raging and walk around at 0 hitpoints.
I wouldn't say you're unkillable. That said. You're very hard to kill. That said it's a Barbarian... that's the point.
Reading Rage beyond Death.
Let's say for the sake of argument, on the 1st turn of combat the Barbarian Rages and before her next turn she is reduced to 0 hp and takes 3 more damaging attacks and so has officially failed 3 death saves all on the first round of combat.
At this point she has already failed 3 death saving throws, so she doesn't take anymore. She's "dead" but still up because of Rage beyond Death.
I would agree with filcat, only effects that cause instant death will stop the Barbarian. So if she take her total maximum hp in a single attack, if affected by Power Word Kill or Disintegrate spell, Beholder disintegration eye beam, etc...
The Barbarian has 9 rounds of combat to regain a single hp or she dies at the end of her rage.
9 rounds? why such a specific limit? Persistent Rage means the rage lasts until the Barbarian says it ends or they fall unconscious, which they cannot do due to Rage beyond death
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Read Rage again:
Rage last for 1 minute (10 round).
It ends early if you are knocked unconscious
It ends early if you haven't attack a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then
It ends early if you spend a Bonus Action
Rage beyond Death only negates the knocked unconscious condition as an early end to your Rage. It doesn't affect anything else.
Note: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/06/03/can-barbarians-rage-during-a-rage-to-extend-the-duration/
A Barbarian CAN spend a Bonus Action to reactive Rage while still Raging to reset the 1 minute timeout.
Her rage never ends, though (at least, not as long as she can stay awake). That was my point. Nothing can stop her except a single attack that deals her hitpoint max, disintegrate, a wish, and maybe a few other magical effects or poisonous effects that would knock her out.
I guess that brings up an interesting point - could an enemy choose to deal non-lethal damage and knock out the raging barbarian? This would end the rage and cause death, and thus be much more lethal than lethal damage. It seems like that would be rules-lawyering that leads to a ridiculous result.
Now that I think about it, a simple sleep spell would do as well.
True. Not much chance of not being affected by Sleep if you have 0 hit points.
Read Persistent Rage again: "Beginning at 15th level, your rage is so fierce that it ends early only if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it."
EDIT: Taking my own advice, I reread Persistent Rage. I was reading it to mean it lasts indefinitely unless you choose to end it - reading it again, I see that the "persistence" only allows you to prevent it from ending early. My bad.
Heh - one of those common misconceptions - lots of us unconsciously skipped over the word early in that feature.
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So, we can't rage forever unless we take Barbarian to level 20. Then, can't they just rage again every 10 rounds? That seems to be the only thing keeping them from being unstoppable. Oh, and they pretty much have to either be Aasimar (self-heal before long rest), Elf or Half-Elf (no involuntary sleeping). Of course, they can still be one-hit killed but out of all the classes they're still the best equipped for that. Even if they are one-hit killed, anyone with Revivify can pick them back up seeing as they don't need any material components from an earlier feature.
When your definition of unstoppable is "unless someone casts a save or suck spell on me" I find it less than compelling. Such high level threats usually have some kind of magical back up to them. Or, in the case of a dragon that hasn't been given sorcery or the Tarrasque, we could just bite them in half. I don't care how much you Rage when your brain meats have been crunched open.
Its the same white room theorycraft that people claim that max level moon druids are invincible, reducing everything to just DPR and zero tactics of any other kind.
'I turn into a Rage monster and roam about the battlefield inflicting terrible damage even at 1 HP because I'm effectively immortal mwahahahaha!'
DM: The enemy mage casts Wall of Force in a dome over you. Have fun raging all by yourself for the next ten minutes while he uses Shape Earth or Shape Stone to build a pit to keep you in.
'Unkillable' is NOT the same thing as 'unbeatable'...it just means you have to change your definition of the word 'defeat'.
OMG I just realized how OP that is.
If you are reduced to 0HP with that effect you can just finish the battle and then just take a potion of healing before you end your rage.
Can you rage while you are raging?
That was answered above. :)
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/06/03/can-barbarians-rage-during-a-rage-to-extend-the-duration/
A Barbarian CAN spend a Bonus Action to reactive Rage while still Raging to reset the 1 minute timeout.
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