How can you make a tank valor bard viable? How do you guys play a Valor bard tank?
The party i play with is small and dont have a tank and there have been alot of scenarios when we almost wipe. The others in the party are squishy and focus on damage. So I would like to be more durable and fight in close combat probably with the feature war caster. I would prefer not to multiclass.
I got pretty good rolls on the char and have almost maxed charisma(19). Also the dex and wisdom are closer to maxed. Constitution is decent as well. All of these stats are 15+.
Getting high con and dex are your best ideas, and if you're willing to sacrifice spell potential, then put dex top, then charisma or con. Valor bard is best, but if you want to be more mobile then swords bard is the way to go. Honestly, bards aren't the tankiest classes, so if you do die, then you can just recreate yourself as a fighter or barbarian. Taking a rapier gives you the best damage, then take studded leather armour for protection. You could take a shield if you wanted to, then have a rapier as well. Dual wield rapiers if you want more damage.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I agree that your best bet to be more durable is to wear studded leather and a shield with a rapier. Further recommendations would be to take Bane and Dissonant Whispers. Bane is a great spell that combines defense and offense. When your enemies are rolling -1d4 to hit you, you effectively have +1d4 to your AC and on top of that it make them more vulnerable to your party's spells, which bring me to Dissonant Whispers. If you're in melee combat with an enemy, cast Dissonant Whispers. If you're maintaining a Bane spell on them they will likely fail the save, and when they run away you can tag them with an opportunity attack, allowing you to do both spell damage and melee weapon damage to your target in the same turn. Also opening that gap in distance makes it just that much harder for them to attack you.
I think the best way to play a tanky bard is 1 level in hexblade and the rest in sword bard.
Hexblade gives you medium armor proficiency, the shield spell and shield proficiency. Between the shield spell and the sword bards flourish your AC should be really stacked when needed.
I would also take the warcaster feat so you can cast spells freely while doing this, since you can already use your sword as arcane focus thanks to sword bard.
The +CHA attacks provided by hexblade are just the cherry on top and you can also take booming blade as one of your warlock cantrips to help you out in the early levels while also providing a really good option for opportunity attacks in conjunction with warcaster later.
Playing the same thing as valor bard always has the problem that your weapon isn't a arcane focus and limiting your spellcasting in the process, but i think a hexblade dip is still your best bet for pure optimization.
I get that taking a hexblade dip is oftentimes not that great for roleplaying reasons.... but i think it is the best option for tanking with bard.
I agree that your best bet to be more durable is to wear studded leather and a shield with a rapier. Further recommendations would be to take Bane and Dissonant Whispers. Bane is a great spell that combines defense and offense. When your enemies are rolling -1d4 to hit you, you effectively have +1d4 to your AC and on top of that it make them more vulnerable to your party's spells, which bring me to Dissonant Whispers. If you're in melee combat with an enemy, cast Dissonant Whispers. If you're maintaining a Bane spell on them they will likely fail the save, and when they run away you can tag them with an opportunity attack, allowing you to do both spell damage and melee weapon damage to your target in the same turn. Also opening that gap in distance makes it just that much harder for them to attack you.
It's ... okaaaay, I guess. It seems more of a general bard guide than a guide to make a tanky bard. I definitely would not recommend trying to grab all those feats and the author kind of contradicts themselves when they say that you shouldn't play one of the small races, but then says you should be using a rapier. The small races have no problem using finesse weapons, they just have problems with heavy weapons.
Question, when you say you want to make a 'tank' are you just talking about someone who is durable and hard to kill or did you also want to be able to protect your party mates and direct enemy hostility to yourself?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
What feats do you not recommend to take and what feats would you take?
I want to be mostly durable but also to protect allies. Right now I have to focus on being more durable since I get 2-3 shotted in most bigger fights. (Dont have shield or medium armor yet thou).
I guess the war caster feat alone is enough. Since you rolled your stats it seems you will be able to get CHA and DEX to 20 which should be your priority. If you still have ASIs after that i would take the lucky, sentinel or tough feat.
Also you should really get medium armor and a shield if you plan to run into the fray alot.
What feats do you not recommend to take and what feats would you take?
I want to be mostly durable but also to protect allies. Right now I have to focus on being more durable since I get 2-3 shotted in most bigger fights. (Dont have shield or medium armor yet thou).
The Skilled feat is pretty unnecessary given how many skills Bards get and Jack of All Trades. War Caster is a good feat, but it doesn't technically make you more durable. What you're going for with a War Caster build is tactics, pick the best spell for the situation and War Caster will help you cast it and keep it up. The aforementioned Bane, Dissonant Whispers combo is a great one, and with War Caster you can tag your enemy with Vicious Mockery as an opportunity attack. Believe me, the combination of Bane and Vicious Mockery makes an enemy look like a bumbling fool as they roll -1d4 at Disadvantage to hit you. War Caster is a great feat! I have it on my Bard.
In general don't plan too far ahead, maybe only the next two or three levels. By the time you get there you'll probably have a different idea of what you want to do with your Bard.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Crazy Idea that's probably not relevant: Play a Mountain Dwarf Lore Bard. get med. armour from being a MD, get cutting words destabilize opponents hit chance, add Bane to the mix....voila!
Variation on this: pick up 2 lvls of paladin. You still get medium armour and shields, you learn how to smite and can still go lore bard to learn cutting words...that's a lot of AC and attack roll debuffs for a simple Bard :D. And you still get decent spell progression on the Bard.
Ideas that actually might help:
Just being a valour bard and having med armour and a shield will help your AC a lot. You could pick up the medium armour feat to have even more AC and still retain your sneaking prowess. If your stats allow it, you could go crazy and pick up Heavy Armour instead.
At this lvl, casting heroism on yourself is not bad either. 4 Temp HP every turn in your case and you can swap out the spell once it becomes irrelevant.
Grab the tough Feat to add 2hp/lvl to your pool.
Learn haste as a magical secret and pick up war caster or resilient con so that it doesn't break, gives you more AC, movement and an extra attack.
Other things you could do is increase the party's survivability. Picking up the Aid spell as a secret might help, giving yourself and others more HP everyday. This in fact stacks with temp HP from spells like heroism.
Of course telling the others that investing in staying alive is not a bad thing also helps :p. What classes are they?
Our game started at 3rd level and I decided to go with a College of Swords Bard because I like that I can use weapons as my magical foci. I stayed Bard until level 4, when I picked up Elven Accuracy, and then took one level of Hexblade warlock for the armor, weapon, and shield proficiencies as well as the Shield spell. Next I took 4 levels of Rogue, going with Swashbuckler. So my character now uses Charisma for everything important; wielding his rapier, adding to his Initiative, and for spell DC.
See I wanted to build a decent gish, a duelist who uses magic to enhance swordplay. I liked the idea of playing a Bard this way, but soon realized that in 5E Bards are full casters. Their Colleges may give them the ability to be a half-martial class, but I wanted a bit more on the swordplay side rather than the magic side, so I had to find a path to make that happen. the one level dip in Hexblade ties it all together, giving me the weapon and shield proficiencies and letting me use my Charisma with one weapon. Now I intend on mostly leveling up in Rogue, for an Errol Flynn type action hero.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Sounds like a squishy party. You definitely have to play as a front liner. Good luck.
It sounds to me like you will do well to RP yourselves past combat when you can, and when you can't keep an avenue of retreat open for yourselves. Working together, I think you will have a lot of fun.
If you want to get a better jump, getting the Lucky Feat can help a lot if you can keep your combat episodes down to a minimum per long rest. Once bards get to 5th level they get Song of Rest, which allows them to recharge all the uses of Bardic Inspiration. You can usually double or triple the number of BIs/long rest this way.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
How can you make a tank valor bard viable? How do you guys play a Valor bard tank?
The party i play with is small and dont have a tank and there have been alot of scenarios when we almost wipe. The others in the party are spellcasters and focus on damage. So I would like to be more durable and fight in close combat probably with the feature war caster. I would prefer not to multiclass.
I got pretty good rolls on the char and have almost maxed charisma(19). Also the dex and wisdom are closer to maxed. Constitution is decent as well. All of these stats are 15+.
Currently level 3.
Thanks for Advice!
Medium armor, a shield, and 14 DEX is only 1 AC shy of heavy armor and shield. 3rd level bards have 4 hp less than fighters or paladins. It's 22 vs 18 hp before CON bonus. Valor is the least squishy bard option and not bad.
Rely on that near AC and hp plus the heroism spell. War caster and/or resilient CON is important to maintaining concentration.
Feats like heavy armor proficiency or medium armor mastery can make up the AC if it's important to you. Tough changes hit points to be better than d10, heavy armor master (after proficiency) gives damage reduction. Shield mastery is also an option for the DEX save benefits. The valor bard proficiencies open up the feat options.
Take the shield spell at 10th level with secrets fo more AC if you want. Aid is good for hit points too.
The ability to protect others is a given, tbh; use the bardic inspiration and pick up a couple of decent CC spells
Once bards get to 5th level they get Song of Rest, which allows them to recharge all the uses of Bardic Inspiration. You can usually double or triple the number of BIs/long rest this way.
Or use the song of rest gained at 2nd level for extra healing but font of inspiration for more inspiration. :P
Unfortunately I have already choosed the race and school. Half elf and Valor. Would playing paladin to level 2 be helpfull anyway?
My party other than me is a Rogue and Warlock.
Paladin would "only" give you smite if you invest 2 lvls, probably not going to be worth it. Instead look at one of the other options of buffing your tank like Medium armour Mastery or the Tough feat.
Hi!
How can you make a tank valor bard viable? How do you guys play a Valor bard tank?
The party i play with is small and dont have a tank and there have been alot of scenarios when we almost wipe. The others in the party are squishy and focus on damage. So I would like to be more durable and fight in close combat probably with the feature war caster. I would prefer not to multiclass.
I got pretty good rolls on the char and have almost maxed charisma(19). Also the dex and wisdom are closer to maxed. Constitution is decent as well. All of these stats are 15+.
Currently level 3.
Thanks for Advice!
Getting high con and dex are your best ideas, and if you're willing to sacrifice spell potential, then put dex top, then charisma or con. Valor bard is best, but if you want to be more mobile then swords bard is the way to go. Honestly, bards aren't the tankiest classes, so if you do die, then you can just recreate yourself as a fighter or barbarian. Taking a rapier gives you the best damage, then take studded leather armour for protection. You could take a shield if you wanted to, then have a rapier as well. Dual wield rapiers if you want more damage.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
I agree that your best bet to be more durable is to wear studded leather and a shield with a rapier. Further recommendations would be to take Bane and Dissonant Whispers. Bane is a great spell that combines defense and offense. When your enemies are rolling -1d4 to hit you, you effectively have +1d4 to your AC and on top of that it make them more vulnerable to your party's spells, which bring me to Dissonant Whispers. If you're in melee combat with an enemy, cast Dissonant Whispers. If you're maintaining a Bane spell on them they will likely fail the save, and when they run away you can tag them with an opportunity attack, allowing you to do both spell damage and melee weapon damage to your target in the same turn. Also opening that gap in distance makes it just that much harder for them to attack you.
You need the Dual Wielder feat to dual wield rapiers since they're not light weapons.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If it's one on one, Heat Metal might be a better choice for your concentration spell.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
My BEST Advice for your Bard is to Charm a Paladin with Shiny Armor.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I think the best way to play a tanky bard is 1 level in hexblade and the rest in sword bard.
Hexblade gives you medium armor proficiency, the shield spell and shield proficiency. Between the shield spell and the sword bards flourish your AC should be really stacked when needed.
I would also take the warcaster feat so you can cast spells freely while doing this, since you can already use your sword as arcane focus thanks to sword bard.
The +CHA attacks provided by hexblade are just the cherry on top and you can also take booming blade as one of your warlock cantrips to help you out in the early levels while also providing a really good option for opportunity attacks in conjunction with warcaster later.
Playing the same thing as valor bard always has the problem that your weapon isn't a arcane focus and limiting your spellcasting in the process, but i think a hexblade dip is still your best bet for pure optimization.
I get that taking a hexblade dip is oftentimes not that great for roleplaying reasons.... but i think it is the best option for tanking with bard.
So they are. They should be light, as they weigh less than scimitars, and are traditionally light weapons anyway.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
Thank you all for advice!
What do you guys think about this build:
https://www.gametruth.com/guides/guide-dd-5e-how-to-build-a-bard/
Is it optimal for a tank bard?
It's ... okaaaay, I guess. It seems more of a general bard guide than a guide to make a tanky bard. I definitely would not recommend trying to grab all those feats and the author kind of contradicts themselves when they say that you shouldn't play one of the small races, but then says you should be using a rapier. The small races have no problem using finesse weapons, they just have problems with heavy weapons.
Question, when you say you want to make a 'tank' are you just talking about someone who is durable and hard to kill or did you also want to be able to protect your party mates and direct enemy hostility to yourself?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
What feats do you not recommend to take and what feats would you take?
I want to be mostly durable but also to protect allies. Right now I have to focus on being more durable since I get 2-3 shotted in most bigger fights. (Dont have shield or medium armor yet thou).
I guess the war caster feat alone is enough. Since you rolled your stats it seems you will be able to get CHA and DEX to 20 which should be your priority. If you still have ASIs after that i would take the lucky, sentinel or tough feat.
Also you should really get medium armor and a shield if you plan to run into the fray alot.
The Skilled feat is pretty unnecessary given how many skills Bards get and Jack of All Trades. War Caster is a good feat, but it doesn't technically make you more durable. What you're going for with a War Caster build is tactics, pick the best spell for the situation and War Caster will help you cast it and keep it up. The aforementioned Bane, Dissonant Whispers combo is a great one, and with War Caster you can tag your enemy with Vicious Mockery as an opportunity attack. Believe me, the combination of Bane and Vicious Mockery makes an enemy look like a bumbling fool as they roll -1d4 at Disadvantage to hit you. War Caster is a great feat! I have it on my Bard.
In general don't plan too far ahead, maybe only the next two or three levels. By the time you get there you'll probably have a different idea of what you want to do with your Bard.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Alright, that was really helpful!
Do you play a valor bard, if so how do you play it?
Some ideas:
Crazy Idea that's probably not relevant: Play a Mountain Dwarf Lore Bard. get med. armour from being a MD, get cutting words destabilize opponents hit chance, add Bane to the mix....voila!
Variation on this: pick up 2 lvls of paladin. You still get medium armour and shields, you learn how to smite and can still go lore bard to learn cutting words...that's a lot of AC and attack roll debuffs for a simple Bard :D. And you still get decent spell progression on the Bard.
Ideas that actually might help:
Just being a valour bard and having med armour and a shield will help your AC a lot. You could pick up the medium armour feat to have even more AC and still retain your sneaking prowess. If your stats allow it, you could go crazy and pick up Heavy Armour instead.
At this lvl, casting heroism on yourself is not bad either. 4 Temp HP every turn in your case and you can swap out the spell once it becomes irrelevant.
Grab the tough Feat to add 2hp/lvl to your pool.
Learn haste as a magical secret and pick up war caster or resilient con so that it doesn't break, gives you more AC, movement and an extra attack.
Other things you could do is increase the party's survivability. Picking up the Aid spell as a secret might help, giving yourself and others more HP everyday. This in fact stacks with temp HP from spells like heroism.
Of course telling the others that investing in staying alive is not a bad thing also helps :p. What classes are they?
No, I play a slightly more ... eccentric ... build: https://ddb.ac/characters/2725951/sHd2V7
Our game started at 3rd level and I decided to go with a College of Swords Bard because I like that I can use weapons as my magical foci. I stayed Bard until level 4, when I picked up Elven Accuracy, and then took one level of Hexblade warlock for the armor, weapon, and shield proficiencies as well as the Shield spell. Next I took 4 levels of Rogue, going with Swashbuckler. So my character now uses Charisma for everything important; wielding his rapier, adding to his Initiative, and for spell DC.
See I wanted to build a decent gish, a duelist who uses magic to enhance swordplay. I liked the idea of playing a Bard this way, but soon realized that in 5E Bards are full casters. Their Colleges may give them the ability to be a half-martial class, but I wanted a bit more on the swordplay side rather than the magic side, so I had to find a path to make that happen. the one level dip in Hexblade ties it all together, giving me the weapon and shield proficiencies and letting me use my Charisma with one weapon. Now I intend on mostly leveling up in Rogue, for an Errol Flynn type action hero.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Unfortunately I have already choosed the race and school. Half elf and Valor. Would playing paladin to level 2 be helpfull anyway?
My party other than me is a Rogue and Warlock.
A Rogue, a Warlock and a Bard walk into a bar ...
Sounds like a squishy party. You definitely have to play as a front liner. Good luck.
It sounds to me like you will do well to RP yourselves past combat when you can, and when you can't keep an avenue of retreat open for yourselves. Working together, I think you will have a lot of fun.
If you want to get a better jump, getting the Lucky Feat can help a lot if you can keep your combat episodes down to a minimum per long rest. Once bards get to 5th level they get Song of Rest, which allows them to recharge all the uses of Bardic Inspiration. You can usually double or triple the number of BIs/long rest this way.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Medium armor, a shield, and 14 DEX is only 1 AC shy of heavy armor and shield. 3rd level bards have 4 hp less than fighters or paladins. It's 22 vs 18 hp before CON bonus. Valor is the least squishy bard option and not bad.
Rely on that near AC and hp plus the heroism spell. War caster and/or resilient CON is important to maintaining concentration.
Feats like heavy armor proficiency or medium armor mastery can make up the AC if it's important to you. Tough changes hit points to be better than d10, heavy armor master (after proficiency) gives damage reduction. Shield mastery is also an option for the DEX save benefits. The valor bard proficiencies open up the feat options.
Take the shield spell at 10th level with secrets fo more AC if you want. Aid is good for hit points too.
The ability to protect others is a given, tbh; use the bardic inspiration and pick up a couple of decent CC spells
Or use the song of rest gained at 2nd level for extra healing but font of inspiration for more inspiration. :P
Paladin would "only" give you smite if you invest 2 lvls, probably not going to be worth it. Instead look at one of the other options of buffing your tank like Medium armour Mastery or the Tough feat.
This is the best tank build in 5e, because it's the only one with actual crpg style taunts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV7Ev7DobDc