The recent slew of official publications have brought us the "College of Eloquence" Bard subclass two-fold, and as such, I'm eager to jump right back into the class proper.
While it is quite likely I'll play this Eloquence Bard mostly as a single class, I'm not opposed to multiclassing...provides it is either interesting or compliments the Eloquence features.
I'm considering 1-3 levels into Rogue for additional "Expertise" and "Cunning Action"...and I'm even curious about the Mastermind Rogue to really drive home that this Eloquence Bard is a shrewd master of manipulative words or scheming deception. : )
But then I look at other classes...and there are certainly many, many options...the thing is about the Eloquence Bard: it's so fantastic at the social pillar of the game, pretty much any other multiclass provides a substantial boost, be it exploration or combat.
A Warlock multiclass makes it so that the Eloquence Bard may have negotiated a tight deal with an otherwordly patron...and gains Eldritch Blast, a nifty patron feature or two, and perhaps some Eldritch Invocations.
A Sorcerer multiclass gives you additional features; as well as a host of cantrips and Level 1 spells that can expand a Bard's arsenal.
What are some potentially strong multiclass builds you feel mesh well with the Eloquence Bard?
For flavor that's a personal taste. But mechanically, I can't see any combination that will make it worth it. Multi-class into a martial and you're giving up spell levels and spell lots. Multi-class into another full caster, and you're giving up spell levels - and really sorcerer would be the only viable choice because of Charisma. What's more, the mid and high level EB features are all really good, despite the fact that the level 3 features are GREAT.
I'm a fan of multiclass concepts. I just think strait EB is the way to go on this one.
For flavor that's a personal taste. But mechanically, I can't see any combination that will make it worth it. Multi-class into a martial and you're giving up spell levels and spell lots. Multi-class into another full caster, and you're giving up spell levels - and really sorcerer would be the only viable choice because of Charisma. What's more, the mid and high level EB features are all really good, despite the fact that the level 3 features are GREAT.
I'm a fan of multiclass concepts. I just think strait EB is the way to go on this one.
This subclass, in particular, DOES justify the straight leveling a tad more so than the others, doesn't it? : )
You can still easily dip 1 level in something else. The bard capstone is meh.
I like sorcerer 1 for the added cantrips. When I took the dip it doubled my cantrips from 4 to 8. The 2 1st level spells just added a bit more versatility as well.
If you want armor fighter 2 is good. I would consider trading an asi for action surge.
You can still easily dip 1 level in something else. The bard capstone is meh.
I like sorcerer 1 for the added cantrips. When I took the dip it doubled my cantrips from 4 to 8. The 2 1st level spells just added a bit more versatility as well.
If you want armor fighter 2 is good. I would consider trading an asi for action surge.
I've found the single-level dip into Divine Soul Sorcerer to be a fantastic multiclass...free pickings from either the Sorcerer or Cleric spell list.
"Favor of the Gods" never stops being useful, either. : )
IMO eloquence bard doesn't particularly change anything value wise from other bard colleges. Hitting level 6 is obviously nice for the unfailing inspiration feature, but the next feature you'd be getting is all the way at 14 so until then it's just standard bard. Bard plays along well with a lot of different options, it's actually easier to pick out classes that DON'T work well with them. Being able to have a minimum 20 persuasion and deception is pretty wonky though.
IMO eloquence bard doesn't particularly change anything value wise from other bard colleges. Hitting level 6 is obviously nice for the unfailing inspiration feature, but the next feature you'd be getting is all the way at 14 so until then it's just standard bard. Bard plays along well with a lot of different options, it's actually easier to pick out classes that DON'T work well with them. Being able to have a minimum 20 persuasion and deception is pretty wonky though.
Are you thinking this through?
At level 3 Unsettling Words: you can lower your opponent's saving throw by 1d6 as a bonus action, meaning you can lower their save and cast a spell on them on the same turn. That goes up to a 1d8 at level 5, 1d10 at level 10, and 1d12 at level 15.
Also at level 3 Silver Tongue: if you take proficiency and expertise in Persuasion and Deception, the lowest you can roll is a 15 on those checks. At level 5 that goes up to a minimum roll of 20.
At level 6: Unfailing Inspiration: if a player uses an inspiration die and it fails, they keep it anyway. No longer do they need to gauge if the roll is too low to waste an attempt at using it.
Also at level 6: Universal Speech: You can make your speech intelligible to *any creature* (it says nothing about the creature needing to even have a language. Cast Comprehend Languages (as a ritual), and you essentially have Tongues (3rd level spell) for free.
14th Level: Now you can (in theory) make a single inspiration die last forever, combined with Unfailing Inspiration - that's irrespective of whether it succeeds or fails. You can use the rest of them to make enemies fail saving throws - yours or anyone else's. And not just spell saving throws
The scaling on the inspiration dice only averages to +1 at level 10 as opposed to swapping out at level 6/7/8 and grabbing things like armor proficiency, metamagic through sorc, dipping warlock for invocations and the extra low level slots, etc.
Yes the level 3 feature to basically auto succeed on almost any social check is strong and is one of the best reasons to pick it (though your numbers are wrong, 16 cha nets you +3, expertise doubles your proficiency so that is +4 at levels 1-4 and then +6 at level 5+ etc.so with a lowest roll of 10 then at level 3 your lowest result is a 17 then up to 19 at 5 not accounting for rolled stats or ASI to charisma. My bard I have in a campaign with rolled stats has 20 cha at level 5 so his minimum is 21 aka don't even need to bother most of the time with rolling).
Universal speech is basically a free casting of a slightly worse tongues that you can also cast as a 1st level spell, personal experience finds this niche though it might get used once or twice, notable synergy with warlock for the ability to read languages. Unfailing inspiration is certainly a highlight and the reason to hit level 6 before dipping into something else. The thing to think about isn't how good those first 6 levels are, but what the levels past that are giving you.
Bards as a class are able to work with most other classes without issue so you really get a LOT of options. You hardly "need" to multiclass to be good as a full caster but taking a 1 level delay in spell learning progression to get stuff out of cleric along with a domain can really boost your defensive and offensive options. Sorcerer gives you more flexibility with metamagics as well as plenty of potent offensive and defensive options. Basically all I'm saying is that like many other bard colleges you want to hit 6th level then dip into something else.
The scaling on the inspiration dice only averages to +1 at level 10 as opposed to swapping out at level 6/7/8 and grabbing things like armor proficiency, metamagic through sorc, dipping warlock for invocations and the extra low level slots, etc.
Yes the level 3 feature to basically auto succeed on almost any social check is strong and is one of the best reasons to pick it (though your numbers are wrong, 16 cha nets you +3, expertise doubles your proficiency so that is +4 at levels 1-4 and then +6 at level 5+ etc.so with a lowest roll of 10 then at level 3 your lowest result is a 17 then up to 19 at 5 not accounting for rolled stats or ASI to charisma. My bard I have in a campaign with rolled stats has 20 cha at level 5 so his minimum is 21 aka don't even need to bother most of the time with rolling).
Universal speech is basically a free casting of a slightly worse tongues that you can also cast as a 1st level spell, personal experience finds this niche though it might get used once or twice, notable synergy with warlock for the ability to read languages. Unfailing inspiration is certainly a highlight and the reason to hit level 6 before dipping into something else. The thing to think about isn't how good those first 6 levels are, but what the levels past that are giving you.
Bards as a class are able to work with most other classes without issue so you really get a LOT of options. You hardly "need" to multiclass to be good as a full caster but taking a 1 level delay in spell learning progression to get stuff out of cleric along with a domain can really boost your defensive and offensive options. Sorcerer gives you more flexibility with metamagics as well as plenty of potent offensive and defensive options. Basically all I'm saying is that like many other bard colleges you want to hit 6th level then dip into something else.
Bardic Inpiration Dice: Level 1-4 is 1d6 (3.5) average, Level 5 1d8 (4.5 average), Level 10 1d10 (5.5 average), Level 15 1d12 (6.5 average). Each increase lowers your enemies' saving throw by an average of 1 more than the previous dice, while DC increases by ASI bonuses and increases in your Proficiency bonus.
Silver Tongue let's your roll a minimum of 10 (1-9 are treated like you rolled a 10). At level 3: ASI Bonus: +3, Proficiency plus Expertise +4. So 17 minimum, it's higher than I said. At level 5, proficiency + expertise makes it +10 +6 +4 if you give yourself an ASI bonus, making it a minimum roll of 20.
After level 6, yes. Namely because of Font of inspiration. Getting Bardic Inspiration back on a short rest is WAY too valuable, especially considering your Bardic Inspiration (Eloquence) is used more offensively..
Lore and Eloquence is the two Bard subclasses that is hard to multi-class with because they get their key stuff early on or things that define them. Lore gets Magical Secrets and Eloquence gets unfailing Inspiration. One turning a Bard into a wild card powerhouse and the other the best support in the game.
- It may also depend on the party. In a 5-6 party with 2+ martial classes it's fine to wait later to multi-class. Again, the first 6 levels are just too good to pass up, there's a lot of key features that support the party very much, which the Bard is known for. I'd highly reccomend not multi-classing if you have certain other classes that can compensate off your weaknesses like Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, or Paladin. Classes that have stuff to either raise your AC (Sanctuary) or can draw aggro/ pressure the enemy not to focus fire you. Example: That Bandit with a Crossbow won't feel to happy focusing you if the Rogue dashes over to him and starts sneak attacking him.
- If it's a small party (or your expecting the occasional missing player(s)) of 4 or less then I would consider multi-classing. The Bard is fragile, ha slow damage, and usually doesn't get an escape like Misty Step (which consumes a bonus action). A good DM will see that the casters in the back will get attention, especially from smarter enemies, and by levels 4+ you won't be untintelligent mobs every fight like Goblins and such; that Bandit in tree 50 feet away with a crossbow is going to snipe the guy casting mystic stuff hurting his buddies, and you may not have a Rogue or Fighter that can easy switch targets and pressure him.
That all said, at some point I ALWAYS dip into Hex Warlock eventually. The Bard Capstone is terrible ( and let's be honest, you likely won't reach level 20). At the mid levels you'll have at least an AC of 18 and the shield spell, which now gives you a Reaction. So it rounds out your action economy.
TL;DR
Don't multi-class before level 6 unless your party composition absolutely demands it.
While single-classed Bard is almost certainly the way if considering optimal builds, a splash into Warlock seems very fun for an Eloquence Bard. Almost entirely because the Mask of Many Faces invocation is perfect for such a character.
While single-classed Bard is almost certainly the way if considering optimal builds, a splash into Warlock seems very fun for an Eloquence Bard. Almost entirely because the Mask of Many Faces invocation is perfect for such a character.
Also a decent way to get a good damage option for cantrips with EB and agonizing or AC with the mage armor at will invocation.
Eldritch mind is also pretty great since bard has so many great concentration spells.
Oh for sure Optimus. Consistent, no resource damage is about the only true weak spot in the Bard kit. Warlock sure is a nice patch for that. If the goal is to play a character that is more akin to a half-caster, like some sort of arcane, charismatic ranger, the Bardlock is awesome. I much prefer them to Sorlocks and I adore half-casters so I would be super tempted to play an Eloquence Bard like this as opposed to going single class.
I'm having a great time with my Swords Bard 5/Swashbuckler 5/Hexblade 1. It's definitely the kind of gish character I wanted to play, rather than a full caster. He's never going to go above 3rd level spells, and I like it that way.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I have not seen it mentioned, but a 1 level dip in Peace Cleric is a huge buff. Emboldening bond will continue to power up as you progress through tiers of play.
Having the bond is a semi restricted bless, but no concentration. Allowing you to have both up at the same time, to really mess with bounded accuracy whilest boosting saves.
Bond also can be used on skill checks, this makes you an abnormally good "counterspeller" & "dispel magic" caster. As your jack of all trades applies to checks you are not proficient in and you can use the d4 to boost further. If you have another caster with either spell, with bond up on them you can also inspire them. That's a handy d4+inspiration+ability mod to whatever spell you want gone. They somehow fail the check, sure your out the slot but NOT the inspiration.
You also net a couple cleric cantrips and first level spells. I would start cleric and go bard the rest of the way. Better benefits going into bard than into cleric.
The recent slew of official publications have brought us the "College of Eloquence" Bard subclass two-fold, and as such, I'm eager to jump right back into the class proper.
While it is quite likely I'll play this Eloquence Bard mostly as a single class, I'm not opposed to multiclassing...provides it is either interesting or compliments the Eloquence features.
I'm considering 1-3 levels into Rogue for additional "Expertise" and "Cunning Action"...and I'm even curious about the Mastermind Rogue to really drive home that this Eloquence Bard is a shrewd master of manipulative words or scheming deception. : )
But then I look at other classes...and there are certainly many, many options...the thing is about the Eloquence Bard: it's so fantastic at the social pillar of the game, pretty much any other multiclass provides a substantial boost, be it exploration or combat.
A Warlock multiclass makes it so that the Eloquence Bard may have negotiated a tight deal with an otherwordly patron...and gains Eldritch Blast, a nifty patron feature or two, and perhaps some Eldritch Invocations.
A Sorcerer multiclass gives you additional features; as well as a host of cantrips and Level 1 spells that can expand a Bard's arsenal.
What are some potentially strong multiclass builds you feel mesh well with the Eloquence Bard?
For flavor that's a personal taste. But mechanically, I can't see any combination that will make it worth it. Multi-class into a martial and you're giving up spell levels and spell lots. Multi-class into another full caster, and you're giving up spell levels - and really sorcerer would be the only viable choice because of Charisma. What's more, the mid and high level EB features are all really good, despite the fact that the level 3 features are GREAT.
I'm a fan of multiclass concepts. I just think strait EB is the way to go on this one.
This subclass, in particular, DOES justify the straight leveling a tad more so than the others, doesn't it? : )
You can still easily dip 1 level in something else. The bard capstone is meh.
I like sorcerer 1 for the added cantrips. When I took the dip it doubled my cantrips from 4 to 8. The 2 1st level spells just added a bit more versatility as well.
If you want armor fighter 2 is good. I would consider trading an asi for action surge.
I've found the single-level dip into Divine Soul Sorcerer to be a fantastic multiclass...free pickings from either the Sorcerer or Cleric spell list.
"Favor of the Gods" never stops being useful, either. : )
IMO eloquence bard doesn't particularly change anything value wise from other bard colleges. Hitting level 6 is obviously nice for the unfailing inspiration feature, but the next feature you'd be getting is all the way at 14 so until then it's just standard bard. Bard plays along well with a lot of different options, it's actually easier to pick out classes that DON'T work well with them. Being able to have a minimum 20 persuasion and deception is pretty wonky though.
Are you thinking this through?
At level 3 Unsettling Words: you can lower your opponent's saving throw by 1d6 as a bonus action, meaning you can lower their save and cast a spell on them on the same turn. That goes up to a 1d8 at level 5, 1d10 at level 10, and 1d12 at level 15.
Also at level 3 Silver Tongue: if you take proficiency and expertise in Persuasion and Deception, the lowest you can roll is a 15 on those checks. At level 5 that goes up to a minimum roll of 20.
At level 6: Unfailing Inspiration: if a player uses an inspiration die and it fails, they keep it anyway. No longer do they need to gauge if the roll is too low to waste an attempt at using it.
Also at level 6: Universal Speech: You can make your speech intelligible to *any creature* (it says nothing about the creature needing to even have a language. Cast Comprehend Languages (as a ritual), and you essentially have Tongues (3rd level spell) for free.
14th Level: Now you can (in theory) make a single inspiration die last forever, combined with Unfailing Inspiration - that's irrespective of whether it succeeds or fails. You can use the rest of them to make enemies fail saving throws - yours or anyone else's. And not just spell saving throws
The scaling on the inspiration dice only averages to +1 at level 10 as opposed to swapping out at level 6/7/8 and grabbing things like armor proficiency, metamagic through sorc, dipping warlock for invocations and the extra low level slots, etc.
Yes the level 3 feature to basically auto succeed on almost any social check is strong and is one of the best reasons to pick it (though your numbers are wrong, 16 cha nets you +3, expertise doubles your proficiency so that is +4 at levels 1-4 and then +6 at level 5+ etc.so with a lowest roll of 10 then at level 3 your lowest result is a 17 then up to 19 at 5 not accounting for rolled stats or ASI to charisma. My bard I have in a campaign with rolled stats has 20 cha at level 5 so his minimum is 21 aka don't even need to bother most of the time with rolling).
Universal speech is basically a free casting of a slightly worse tongues that you can also cast as a 1st level spell, personal experience finds this niche though it might get used once or twice, notable synergy with warlock for the ability to read languages. Unfailing inspiration is certainly a highlight and the reason to hit level 6 before dipping into something else. The thing to think about isn't how good those first 6 levels are, but what the levels past that are giving you.
Bards as a class are able to work with most other classes without issue so you really get a LOT of options. You hardly "need" to multiclass to be good as a full caster but taking a 1 level delay in spell learning progression to get stuff out of cleric along with a domain can really boost your defensive and offensive options. Sorcerer gives you more flexibility with metamagics as well as plenty of potent offensive and defensive options. Basically all I'm saying is that like many other bard colleges you want to hit 6th level then dip into something else.
Bardic Inpiration Dice: Level 1-4 is 1d6 (3.5) average, Level 5 1d8 (4.5 average), Level 10 1d10 (5.5 average), Level 15 1d12 (6.5 average). Each increase lowers your enemies' saving throw by an average of 1 more than the previous dice, while DC increases by ASI bonuses and increases in your Proficiency bonus.
Silver Tongue let's your roll a minimum of 10 (1-9 are treated like you rolled a 10). At level 3: ASI Bonus: +3, Proficiency plus Expertise +4. So 17 minimum, it's higher than I said. At level 5, proficiency + expertise makes it +10 +6 +4 if you give yourself an ASI bonus, making it a minimum roll of 20.
After level 6, yes. Namely because of Font of inspiration. Getting Bardic Inspiration back on a short rest is WAY too valuable, especially considering your Bardic Inspiration (Eloquence) is used more offensively..
Lore and Eloquence is the two Bard subclasses that is hard to multi-class with because they get their key stuff early on or things that define them. Lore gets Magical Secrets and Eloquence gets unfailing Inspiration. One turning a Bard into a wild card powerhouse and the other the best support in the game.
- It may also depend on the party. In a 5-6 party with 2+ martial classes it's fine to wait later to multi-class. Again, the first 6 levels are just too good to pass up, there's a lot of key features that support the party very much, which the Bard is known for. I'd highly reccomend not multi-classing if you have certain other classes that can compensate off your weaknesses like Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, or Paladin. Classes that have stuff to either raise your AC (Sanctuary) or can draw aggro/ pressure the enemy not to focus fire you. Example: That Bandit with a Crossbow won't feel to happy focusing you if the Rogue dashes over to him and starts sneak attacking him.
- If it's a small party (or your expecting the occasional missing player(s)) of 4 or less then I would consider multi-classing. The Bard is fragile, ha slow damage, and usually doesn't get an escape like Misty Step (which consumes a bonus action). A good DM will see that the casters in the back will get attention, especially from smarter enemies, and by levels 4+ you won't be untintelligent mobs every fight like Goblins and such; that Bandit in tree 50 feet away with a crossbow is going to snipe the guy casting mystic stuff hurting his buddies, and you may not have a Rogue or Fighter that can easy switch targets and pressure him.
That all said, at some point I ALWAYS dip into Hex Warlock eventually. The Bard Capstone is terrible ( and let's be honest, you likely won't reach level 20). At the mid levels you'll have at least an AC of 18 and the shield spell, which now gives you a Reaction. So it rounds out your action economy.
TL;DR
Don't multi-class before level 6 unless your party composition absolutely demands it.
While single-classed Bard is almost certainly the way if considering optimal builds, a splash into Warlock seems very fun for an Eloquence Bard. Almost entirely because the Mask of Many Faces invocation is perfect for such a character.
Also a decent way to get a good damage option for cantrips with EB and agonizing or AC with the mage armor at will invocation.
Eldritch mind is also pretty great since bard has so many great concentration spells.
Oh for sure Optimus. Consistent, no resource damage is about the only true weak spot in the Bard kit. Warlock sure is a nice patch for that. If the goal is to play a character that is more akin to a half-caster, like some sort of arcane, charismatic ranger, the Bardlock is awesome. I much prefer them to Sorlocks and I adore half-casters so I would be super tempted to play an Eloquence Bard like this as opposed to going single class.
I'm having a great time with my Swords Bard 5/Swashbuckler 5/Hexblade 1. It's definitely the kind of gish character I wanted to play, rather than a full caster. He's never going to go above 3rd level spells, and I like it that way.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I have not seen it mentioned, but a 1 level dip in Peace Cleric is a huge buff. Emboldening bond will continue to power up as you progress through tiers of play.
Having the bond is a semi restricted bless, but no concentration. Allowing you to have both up at the same time, to really mess with bounded accuracy whilest boosting saves.
Bond also can be used on skill checks, this makes you an abnormally good "counterspeller" & "dispel magic" caster. As your jack of all trades applies to checks you are not proficient in and you can use the d4 to boost further. If you have another caster with either spell, with bond up on them you can also inspire them. That's a handy d4+inspiration+ability mod to whatever spell you want gone. They somehow fail the check, sure your out the slot but NOT the inspiration.
You also net a couple cleric cantrips and first level spells. I would start cleric and go bard the rest of the way. Better benefits going into bard than into cleric.