I play a Level 4 Half-elf Lore bard ( I started at lvl3) in a west marches style game on Roll 20. (Tal'Dorei Campaign). (Please understand this is my very first D&D character and i'm not versed in Mechanics)
We have different DM's , Different missions types, and over 20 PCs. Yup i can go on quests/adventures and play with 4 totally different PCs. No optimized Parties, brand new players with Veterans. I've Learned these trends in my games:-
1. As a 5th member, my bard seems to be the main healer...or only healer.
2. People don't consider Traps.
3. DM discretion varies....
I'm having a hard time understanding when to use things like cutting words....and suggestion in combat. Apparently Charm Person is not good in combat and Minor illusion is not taken seriously as cover. My spells are :-
Cantrips ( 3 ) : Minor illusion, Viscious Mockery and Mage Hand. ( I hardly ever get to use M. Illusion effectively)
Lvl 1 ( 4 ) spells are T's Hideous Laughter, Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire and Healing. Word. ( i removed Charm Person @ Lvl 4 when i realized it's tough to convince people in combat)
Lvl 2 spells ( 3 ) Silence, Suggestion and Heat Metal. (Suggestion is quite DM discretion!)
This is how combat usually goes... I cast Faerie fire on mobs, If they hear me...T laughter and whispers..and eventually my front-liners start getting Healing word. I also run out of spells alot and rely on V. Mock and crossbow to do damage.
While i like keeping people alive i'm trying to be more of a buffer/debuffer .....and picked Half-Elf for the Charming stuff. It was all about being charming and also charming people. I was contemplating a dip in warlock for the RP but i'll stay Lorebard because they do so many things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i. Lorebard 6/GOOlock 1 ii. Juggernaut Barbarian 3/Fighter 1 (Deceased) iii. Shepherd Druid 3 iv. Life Cleric 3
Charm Person and Suggestion are more useful for social interactions than combat; they're a great way to force NPCs to do what you want. While using Suggestion can take someone out of a fight (e.g. "A pack of gnolls is coming, run and hide!"), Hideous Laughter can incapacitate someone with a level 1 slot instead.
Minor Illusion can't provide cover because cover is a physical obstruction. It can give a rogue something to hide behind, though.
Healing Word is a great way to bring party members at 0 HP back into the fight. However Cure Wounds gives more healing per spell slot.
If your Faerie Fire succeeds, I wouldn't bother with Hideous Laughter; the monsters will probably die soon enough. Dissonant Whispers can still be useful if the party has a rogue or paladin, since they can do big damage with opportunity attacks.
Silence is invaluable for fighting enemy spellcasters, especially if a party member can grapple them to keep them in there (hint: use Bardic Inspiration to give your friend a bonus to their athletics check).
Heat Metal isn't very useful against many monsters, but is hilariously effective against humanoids wearing metal armor.
Hello! Glad you're enjoying your Bard! I have some out of combat examples for minor illusion from my games played as a Lore Bard.
Minor Illusion: Enhance a party member to look menacing, or physically strong, or magically enhanced, or maybe more attractive for intimidation rolls and the like. You will likely be the party face, but at times, sometimes a half orc should do the talking to fellow half orcs. Or maybe you give your Paladin power armor. Maybe give the wizard some gems to float around his head to look like a magical crown.
Also for 2nd level spells, I tend to pick Suggestion (or invisibility) for out of combat spells , and roll with Shatter for AoE (if we are lacking it) and Hold Person for use in combat. Heat Metal is slightly more situational from my experience than Hold Person. Fewer humanoids wear metal armor early on (since high AC would really amp the difficulty for a lower level party). That said, it works well to weaken bosses and lieutenant types with their metal weapons. One party member of mine had a cursed weapon that heat metal had him drop, that we hid from him in the bag of holding until we could restore his senses.
thanks for the response! I think alot of the times i personally don't explain my intentions to the DM too well. I need to get my reasons for casting a spell through...what my intentions. Many Times I've had to stall the game to articulate
DMs ( different ones ) would ask or state:-
1. What are you trying to do with that minor illusion sound?
2. "Reactions don't work like that." ( Cutting Words...i'm confused on when i can actually use it...)
3. "So why would The NPC do that?" ( Suggesting something that in the moment makes no sense)
LOL i think s a Bard player i get performance anxiety!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i. Lorebard 6/GOOlock 1 ii. Juggernaut Barbarian 3/Fighter 1 (Deceased) iii. Shepherd Druid 3 iv. Life Cleric 3
Cutting words is used when an opponent makes an attack roll on you or an ally. You insult them to make them miss (bonus points if you make up an insult! Well, no actual points but it can get a laugh and helps immerse the RP).
So lets say an orc swings his sword at one of your buddies and rolls a 19. Before its declared as a hit or miss you can say you're using cutting words as a reaction. You then roll one of your bardic inspiration dice (which you use up.) And subtract the total from the enemy roll. Your friend has an AC of 17, and you rolled a three making the 19 hit into a 16 miss.
It can also be used on damage rolls (for those attack rolls you think are too large to cut down to a mjss) and ability checks (insult a dude who's looking for your rogue to keep him from finding him.)
Its a fun ability. Ultimately though Bards aren't a heavy combat class. They focus more on control like you wanted to do, and its often better to hold your spell slots for spells like hold person or Hideous Laughter then healing word. You can heal your ally for up to nine hp, but the enemy you could have incapacitated with hideous laughter can carve through that healing.
3. "So why would The NPC do that?" ( Suggesting something that in the moment makes no sense)
The whole point of the spell is to make someone do something they wouldn't otherwise do. I'd accept almost anyreason as long as it's even slightly reasonable. (e.g. "Your sword is cursed - drop it.")
This is becoming my 10th level bards favourite spell. Blinding a creature benefits all the party when in combat, and the higher your level the more creatures you can affect. Has useful non combat use as well.
If you dont want to heal, just eventually drop the healing. The party will have to deal with it, and you might be better off for it. There's always Song of Rest- they might be more appreciative of gour campsite songs at the end of the day :)
About Cutting Words: When a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a damage roll, you can use your reaction to expend one of your uses of Bardic Inspiration, rolling a Bardic Inspiration die and subtracting the number rolled from the creature’s roll. You can choose to use this feature after the creature makes its roll, but before the DM determines whether the attack roll or ability check succeeds or fails, or before the creature deals its damage.
Reactions are a kind of action which can be activated out of your turn, but only one per round. Reactions are triggered by some circunstances, ie. you can use the Attack of Oportunity reaction when a enemy adjacent to you left your "danger zone" or your melee range, or for Cutting Words you can use it when you see anyone (enemy or ally) making an attack roll, ability check (this include Skills and Saves) or damage rolls.
About Suggestion: You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. Creatures that can't be charmed are immune to this effect. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.
So the action could makes no sense at all... but it must sounds like a very reasonable task. And that's upon to you.
Don't be afraid to explain your intentions and thoughts to your DMs, they need it to know how the npcs could react to your action. With the rules issues be gentle, before the next session ask your DM to revise the reactions rules, but never argue at the table.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D Beyond Mobile Alpha Tester
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ahoy friends!!
I play a Level 4 Half-elf Lore bard ( I started at lvl3) in a west marches style game on Roll 20. (Tal'Dorei Campaign). (Please understand this is my very first D&D character and i'm not versed in Mechanics)
We have different DM's , Different missions types, and over 20 PCs. Yup i can go on quests/adventures and play with 4 totally different PCs. No optimized Parties, brand new players with Veterans. I've Learned these trends in my games:-
1. As a 5th member, my bard seems to be the main healer...or only healer.
2. People don't consider Traps.
3. DM discretion varies....
I'm having a hard time understanding when to use things like cutting words....and suggestion in combat. Apparently Charm Person is not good in combat and Minor illusion is not taken seriously as cover. My spells are :-
Cantrips ( 3 ) : Minor illusion, Viscious Mockery and Mage Hand. ( I hardly ever get to use M. Illusion effectively)
Lvl 1 ( 4 ) spells are T's Hideous Laughter, Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire and Healing. Word. ( i removed Charm Person @ Lvl 4 when i realized it's tough to convince people in combat)
Lvl 2 spells ( 3 ) Silence, Suggestion and Heat Metal. (Suggestion is quite DM discretion!)
This is how combat usually goes... I cast Faerie fire on mobs, If they hear me...T laughter and whispers..and eventually my front-liners start getting Healing word. I also run out of spells alot and rely on V. Mock and crossbow to do damage.
While i like keeping people alive i'm trying to be more of a buffer/debuffer .....and picked Half-Elf for the Charming stuff. It was all about being charming and also charming people. I was contemplating a dip in warlock for the RP but i'll stay Lorebard because they do so many things.
i. Lorebard 6/GOOlock 1 ii. Juggernaut Barbarian 3/Fighter 1 (Deceased) iii. Shepherd Druid 3 iv. Life Cleric 3
For a new player, you've chosen your spells well!
Charm Person and Suggestion are more useful for social interactions than combat; they're a great way to force NPCs to do what you want. While using Suggestion can take someone out of a fight (e.g. "A pack of gnolls is coming, run and hide!"), Hideous Laughter can incapacitate someone with a level 1 slot instead.
Minor Illusion can't provide cover because cover is a physical obstruction. It can give a rogue something to hide behind, though.
Healing Word is a great way to bring party members at 0 HP back into the fight. However Cure Wounds gives more healing per spell slot.
If your Faerie Fire succeeds, I wouldn't bother with Hideous Laughter; the monsters will probably die soon enough. Dissonant Whispers can still be useful if the party has a rogue or paladin, since they can do big damage with opportunity attacks.
Silence is invaluable for fighting enemy spellcasters, especially if a party member can grapple them to keep them in there (hint: use Bardic Inspiration to give your friend a bonus to their athletics check).
Heat Metal isn't very useful against many monsters, but is hilariously effective against humanoids wearing metal armor.
Yeah i read guides and forums Religiously...I'm not afraid to take critique and advice.
i. Lorebard 6/GOOlock 1 ii. Juggernaut Barbarian 3/Fighter 1 (Deceased) iii. Shepherd Druid 3 iv. Life Cleric 3
Hello! Glad you're enjoying your Bard! I have some out of combat examples for minor illusion from my games played as a Lore Bard.
Minor Illusion: Enhance a party member to look menacing, or physically strong, or magically enhanced, or maybe more attractive for intimidation rolls and the like. You will likely be the party face, but at times, sometimes a half orc should do the talking to fellow half orcs. Or maybe you give your Paladin power armor. Maybe give the wizard some gems to float around his head to look like a magical crown.
Also for 2nd level spells, I tend to pick Suggestion (or invisibility) for out of combat spells , and roll with Shatter for AoE (if we are lacking it) and Hold Person for use in combat. Heat Metal is slightly more situational from my experience than Hold Person. Fewer humanoids wear metal armor early on (since high AC would really amp the difficulty for a lower level party). That said, it works well to weaken bosses and lieutenant types with their metal weapons. One party member of mine had a cursed weapon that heat metal had him drop, that we hid from him in the bag of holding until we could restore his senses.
thanks for the response! I think alot of the times i personally don't explain my intentions to the DM too well. I need to get my reasons for casting a spell through...what my intentions. Many Times I've had to stall the game to articulate
DMs ( different ones ) would ask or state:-
1. What are you trying to do with that minor illusion sound?
2. "Reactions don't work like that." ( Cutting Words...i'm confused on when i can actually use it...)
3. "So why would The NPC do that?" ( Suggesting something that in the moment makes no sense)
LOL i think s a Bard player i get performance anxiety!!
i. Lorebard 6/GOOlock 1 ii. Juggernaut Barbarian 3/Fighter 1 (Deceased) iii. Shepherd Druid 3 iv. Life Cleric 3
Cutting words is used when an opponent makes an attack roll on you or an ally. You insult them to make them miss (bonus points if you make up an insult! Well, no actual points but it can get a laugh and helps immerse the RP).
So lets say an orc swings his sword at one of your buddies and rolls a 19. Before its declared as a hit or miss you can say you're using cutting words as a reaction. You then roll one of your bardic inspiration dice (which you use up.) And subtract the total from the enemy roll. Your friend has an AC of 17, and you rolled a three making the 19 hit into a 16 miss.
It can also be used on damage rolls (for those attack rolls you think are too large to cut down to a mjss) and ability checks (insult a dude who's looking for your rogue to keep him from finding him.)
Its a fun ability. Ultimately though Bards aren't a heavy combat class. They focus more on control like you wanted to do, and its often better to hold your spell slots for spells like hold person or Hideous Laughter then healing word. You can heal your ally for up to nine hp, but the enemy you could have incapacitated with hideous laughter can carve through that healing.
Next level take blindness/deafness.
This is becoming my 10th level bards favourite spell. Blinding a creature benefits all the party when in combat, and the higher your level the more creatures you can affect. Has useful non combat use as well.
If you dont want to heal, just eventually drop the healing. The party will have to deal with it, and you might be better off for it. There's always Song of Rest- they might be more appreciative of gour campsite songs at the end of the day :)
About Cutting Words: When a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a damage roll, you can use your reaction to expend one of your uses of Bardic Inspiration, rolling a Bardic Inspiration die and subtracting the number rolled from the creature’s roll. You can choose to use this feature after the creature makes its roll, but before the DM determines whether the attack roll or ability check succeeds or fails, or before the creature deals its damage.
Reactions are a kind of action which can be activated out of your turn, but only one per round. Reactions are triggered by some circunstances, ie. you can use the Attack of Oportunity reaction when a enemy adjacent to you left your "danger zone" or your melee range, or for Cutting Words you can use it when you see anyone (enemy or ally) making an attack roll, ability check (this include Skills and Saves) or damage rolls.
About Suggestion: You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. Creatures that can't be charmed are immune to this effect. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.
So the action could makes no sense at all... but it must sounds like a very reasonable task. And that's upon to you.
Don't be afraid to explain your intentions and thoughts to your DMs, they need it to know how the npcs could react to your action. With the rules issues be gentle, before the next session ask your DM to revise the reactions rules, but never argue at the table.
D&D Beyond Mobile Alpha Tester