You're assuming a DM allows the spellcaster to ritually cast while riding. I know the rules don't outright prohibit ritual casting while moving, but they do have to still control the animal. If you're walking or riding in a vehicle, then I don't think it's a problem so long as the ride is relatively smooth. But concentrating on casting a spell while also controlling a 1,000-lb mount between your legs? No thanks.
As with most things, 5e has greatly simplified the terms of controlling a mount in the effort of creating a smooth system. There is nothing about being mounted that disrupts spellcasting. There are no actions required to control the mount.
Unless of course you are attempting a "risky maneuver" as the PHB states, which would take an action to use animal handling and thus disrupt the casting of the ritual that requires your action each round. Casting a spell is not a risky maneuver.
The Phantom Steed loop is 100% legal in terms of the RAW, with zero grey area. I generally don't bother talking about what DMs may or may not allow unless the subject is one that the RAW does not do a good job of nailing down. I don't find a lot of use discussing DM fiat when the rules are clear, because if someone sees something in a forum and wants to bring it to their game, they are going to have that interaction with their DM.
That being said, I'm sure this will bother DMs that like to instill their games with a greater sense of physical realism. When I've played spellcasters I find casting ritual spells over and over to be tedious and lack character (wait guys! give me ten minutes to cast detect magic again!😒), so I would probably never do this strategy myself even though the physics of it don't bother me.
It's also RAW for a wizard to be able to cast a spell with the ritual tag that's in their spellbook, that they do not have prepared, without their spellbook on them. As in someone else could be in possession of it and deny them access. Something has to give.
Something being legal in the RAW is the exact opposite of something having to give. Honestly not sure what you're on about with the spellbook stuff, other than that it seems like it's another aspect of the game that rubs your sensibilities the wrong way.
You and anyone else is free to rule how they want in their games. But RAW, the Phantom Steed loop is kosher.
Ok I didn't mean to start a fight over Phantom Steed, I was just pointing out that you can have multiple steeds at once. "Your whole party" might or might not be a stretch depending on how large your party is.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I agree with you, and I think that the ability to hand out the steeds like candy is one of the most powerful aspects of the spell. I love Phantom Steed. My last wizard didn't take it because we were in an underdark campaign with lots of treacherous, weird terrain. It made me quite sad. One of my favorite spells.
This is actually pretty funny, my GM was talking to me yesterday and he was like “I really dread having to deal with all your bard shenanigans. I know you’re going to find clever ways to destroy my stuff” in a joking manner. Then he said “if you play fighter, ANY FIGHTER, I’ll give you a necklace with 4 charges of vicious mockery per long rest and later on the telekinetic feat for free and you can sing as much as you want and I’ll hand out inspiration dies as I see fit.”
So now it’s like should I play this clearly powerful echo knight barbarian with a great cantrip and invisible mage hand and five foot push (idk how useful that will really be) or a bard lol. I really think this fighter will break the game way worse than any bard could but it’s really tempting.
This is actually pretty funny, my GM was talking to me yesterday and he was like “I really dread having to deal with all your bard shenanigans. I know you’re going to find clever ways to destroy my stuff” in a joking manner. Then he said “if you play fighter, ANY FIGHTER, I’ll give you a necklace with 4 charges of vicious mockery per long rest and later on the telekinetic feat for free and you can sing as much as you want and I’ll hand out inspiration dies as I see fit.”
So now it’s like should I play this clearly powerful echo knight barbarian with a great cantrip and invisible mage hand and five foot push (idk how useful that will really be) or a bard lol. I really think this fighter will break the game way worse than any bard could but it’s really tempting.
But that's the best part! lol. I would go bard all day long (and I like Echo Knight quite a bit). Solving problems with clever use of skills and spells is so much fun and leads to excellent moments at the table.
You're sure to have fun with the martial as well (and it's quite good as you recklessly attack through your echo and pull off nasty teleporting/sentinel shenanigans), but you're giving up basically all of your out of combat utility. If that's a trade you don't mind then go for it. These are VERY different character builds mechanically, so one of them probably fits your concept much better than the other.
Right lmao, it’s very tempting to get a bunch of free stuff on top of an already super powerful martial build, but I think Lore bard goes better with the party even if it is an already very balanced party.
Utility is really the only hole that NEEDS to be filled here. I am excited about playing with the composition. I’ve always wanted to play some of those classes. I don’t know much about crown pally but it’s a pally and tempest cleric I think has some decent dmg as well as the cleric spell list, gloomstalker has some good burst dmg potential and wild magic sorc will be fun to play with I’m sure.
Yeah but I really want counterspell early as well as cutting words. I really wanna play a few of the bard classes but I think Lore bard just goes in for the spell list I want.
You may want to wait on Find Steed at 6 if you think you will make it to 10th and beyond. Then you can get Find Greater Steed. I didn't take it only because on of the players in my group. (we upgraded 2.5 char to 5e...we took years off before starting to play again) is really into his paladin char and I didn't want to steal his thunder, and Wall of Force has been badass. If you aren't going that far then by all means take it. Be careful though, if you take something that is fun or situational it may not see as much use as say Fireball. But what the hell...I have a Tiny Servant ...thumbs up for role playing.
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You're assuming a DM allows the spellcaster to ritually cast while riding. I know the rules don't outright prohibit ritual casting while moving, but they do have to still control the animal. If you're walking or riding in a vehicle, then I don't think it's a problem so long as the ride is relatively smooth. But concentrating on casting a spell while also controlling a 1,000-lb mount between your legs? No thanks.
As with most things, 5e has greatly simplified the terms of controlling a mount in the effort of creating a smooth system. There is nothing about being mounted that disrupts spellcasting. There are no actions required to control the mount.
Unless of course you are attempting a "risky maneuver" as the PHB states, which would take an action to use animal handling and thus disrupt the casting of the ritual that requires your action each round. Casting a spell is not a risky maneuver.
The Phantom Steed loop is 100% legal in terms of the RAW, with zero grey area. I generally don't bother talking about what DMs may or may not allow unless the subject is one that the RAW does not do a good job of nailing down. I don't find a lot of use discussing DM fiat when the rules are clear, because if someone sees something in a forum and wants to bring it to their game, they are going to have that interaction with their DM.
That being said, I'm sure this will bother DMs that like to instill their games with a greater sense of physical realism. When I've played spellcasters I find casting ritual spells over and over to be tedious and lack character (wait guys! give me ten minutes to cast detect magic again!😒), so I would probably never do this strategy myself even though the physics of it don't bother me.
It's also RAW for a wizard to be able to cast a spell with the ritual tag that's in their spellbook, that they do not have prepared, without their spellbook on them. As in someone else could be in possession of it and deny them access. Something has to give.
Something being legal in the RAW is the exact opposite of something having to give. Honestly not sure what you're on about with the spellbook stuff, other than that it seems like it's another aspect of the game that rubs your sensibilities the wrong way.
You and anyone else is free to rule how they want in their games. But RAW, the Phantom Steed loop is kosher.
Ok I didn't mean to start a fight over Phantom Steed, I was just pointing out that you can have multiple steeds at once. "Your whole party" might or might not be a stretch depending on how large your party is.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
ha you're good Ophidimancer. No fight here.
I agree with you, and I think that the ability to hand out the steeds like candy is one of the most powerful aspects of the spell. I love Phantom Steed. My last wizard didn't take it because we were in an underdark campaign with lots of treacherous, weird terrain. It made me quite sad. One of my favorite spells.
This is actually pretty funny, my GM was talking to me yesterday and he was like “I really dread having to deal with all your bard shenanigans. I know you’re going to find clever ways to destroy my stuff” in a joking manner. Then he said “if you play fighter, ANY FIGHTER, I’ll give you a necklace with 4 charges of vicious mockery per long rest and later on the telekinetic feat for free and you can sing as much as you want and I’ll hand out inspiration dies as I see fit.”
So now it’s like should I play this clearly powerful echo knight barbarian with a great cantrip and invisible mage hand and five foot push (idk how useful that will really be) or a bard lol. I really think this fighter will break the game way worse than any bard could but it’s really tempting.
But that's the best part! lol. I would go bard all day long (and I like Echo Knight quite a bit). Solving problems with clever use of skills and spells is so much fun and leads to excellent moments at the table.
You're sure to have fun with the martial as well (and it's quite good as you recklessly attack through your echo and pull off nasty teleporting/sentinel shenanigans), but you're giving up basically all of your out of combat utility. If that's a trade you don't mind then go for it. These are VERY different character builds mechanically, so one of them probably fits your concept much better than the other.
Right lmao, it’s very tempting to get a bunch of free stuff on top of an already super powerful martial build, but I think Lore bard goes better with the party even if it is an already very balanced party.
Assassin rogue, tempest cleric, crown pally, wild magic sorc and gloom stalker ranger.
Utility is really the only hole that NEEDS to be filled here. I am excited about playing with the composition. I’ve always wanted to play some of those classes. I don’t know much about crown pally but it’s a pally and tempest cleric I think has some decent dmg as well as the cleric spell list, gloomstalker has some good burst dmg potential and wild magic sorc will be fun to play with I’m sure.
Have you considered a Glamour bard? The temp hp and repositioning is pretty good support for this party composition, I think.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yeah but I really want counterspell early as well as cutting words. I really wanna play a few of the bard classes but I think Lore bard just goes in for the spell list I want.
You may want to wait on Find Steed at 6 if you think you will make it to 10th and beyond. Then you can get Find Greater Steed. I didn't take it only because on of the players in my group. (we upgraded 2.5 char to 5e...we took years off before starting to play again) is really into his paladin char and I didn't want to steal his thunder, and Wall of Force has been badass. If you aren't going that far then by all means take it. Be careful though, if you take something that is fun or situational it may not see as much use as say Fireball. But what the hell...I have a Tiny Servant ...thumbs up for role playing.