Sorry but you're contradicting yourself more and more, and why even respond if your answer is effectively "I don't care what the rule says, I'm doing it this way no matter what"?
What the rules actually say matters, because that's how we determine how the rules are supposed to work.
This isn't the rules forum my man. D&D explicitly allows homebrewing, I'm not sure where this animosity is coming from.
It's not a "sphere of twilight",
Please don't put the actual exact text of the rules in quotation marks and claim that isn't what the rules say. That is direct misinformation and this is specifically why I'm responding.
The ability says, and I quote: "As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you."
So it is a "sphere of twilight" and your statement is in direct, objective disagreement with the reality of the text of the rules.
Also... do you know why it is a sphere that we created? "you and your allies have half cover while in the sphere created by your Twilight Sanctuary." <---- The 17th level ability references the sphere itself as having been "created". That isn't a reference to a 30ft radius area... that is a reference to an actual thing. It is even providing cover at this point. That means its so concentrated that it has become at least semi-solid in a protective capacity. Enough to provide cover... Cover.
Cover: "Walls, trees, creatures, and other obstacles can provide cover during combat, making a target more difficult to harm."
If you don't think it is creating a "sphere of twilight" then you're homebrewing stuff.
the word "twilight" here is basically meaningless for what that effect is, it's just flavour;
You're free to casually disregard a portion of the ability if you want to. That is homebrewing, and you're very welcome to do so.
the part that matters is "filled with dim light" which actually tells us part of what the twlight does, but gives no indication that it's supposed to ignore any of the normal rules for light.
My ruling doesn't ignore normal rules for light. The dim light inside the sphere can absolutely still be overridden by bright light, if that light is brought inside the sphere. Just like a room. If you bring a torch into a room filled with dim light, it gets brighter inside. Same thing. Bring a bright light into the sphere of dim light? Bright light. So, what's the problem?
I'd also argue that being able to create a no-consequences, no-concentration area of dim light in bright environments on demand is potentially even more OP than the healing issue. As I've mentioned, this would allow you and your party to reliably use a bunch of shadow specific abilities that proc in dim light (such as Shadow Blade's advantage) without any balancing factor (as you can just hand out darkvision). If this were the only effect of Twilight Sanctuary it might be fine, but it's not, and even then, I'd also argue that you could remove Twilight Sanctuary from the Twilight Cleric altogether, and it'd still be one of the better cleric domains.
So you base your rulings based on perceptions of power and not RAW? Okay. That's valid. But... why the harp about following the rules as written when you yourself deviate based entirely on your perception of relative power?
I do both. Read it to understand the RAW, and then homebrew it for various reasons, balance, integrate interestingly into story, etc. The lighting portion of my ruling I feel is RAW. I also recognize that AOE Temp HP fountain is OP, and so homebrew nerf it.
Reminder: This isn't the rules forum. It is the cleric forum. Honestly, if you wanna debate how this ability is supposed to work back and forth, that other forum might be a better venue.
The question was originally what's so great about the Twilight Cleric.
An on short rest AOE dim light that geysers 1d6 + your LEVEL temp HP to EVERYONE you want... just automatically...every turn. This turns nearly any deadly encounter into an easy one when activated. Your group may even walk out of combat with full HP and now also bonus T HP, no one being actually injured whatsoever because the Temp HP refreshes every single round. At only 6th level you're doing it twice per short rest so you're trivializing even more encounters per day than before!
That AOE dim light T HP fountain ALSO effectively* provides immunity to Charm and Frightened conditions while up. *not actual immunity, simply an automatic removal of the effect every turn
Mass-Darkvision, 300ft range. 1 per rest for free, costs slot after. (Compare to The Spell, Darkvision... 2nd level slot, one target, only 60ft, but does last 8 hrs)
The bonus spell known list!. Just a phenomenal list of spells. Probably my fav of all cleric lists. Really, very, exceptionally good.
We just talked about the list but OMG Aura of Vitality is 20d6 hp for a 3rd level slot. Cure wounds only 3d8+mod. That's average 70 vs 19 (at 20 wisdom). 70 is also how much HEAL heals for with a 6th level spell. Yeah, the aura takes a full minute to dish out all that HP. But its a lot.
And...again, another spell that needs direct mention: Circle of Power. You're the ONLY character that just gets this spell before 17th level. This is an endgame spell, top tier fighting mythical and legendary creatures spell... you get at only 9th level. Use it often and watch your party shrug off otherwise TPK inducing effects without any effect whatsoever. This spell, on a 9th level support character like you... is obscene.
Advantage on initiative. Infinite use, but only ever to a single target. Someone in your group is always rolling initiative with advantage, whoever you feel most needs it at the time (often yourself). ((My dex-based twilight cleric routinely goes first with 20+ init results, it is almost expected he goes first))
Concentration-free flight starting at only 6th level? Uhm, yes sign me up.
Oh the free heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency. Almost forgot that. The other powers almost dwarf this one in scale but... I mean, objectively this is also very good by itself.
And.. on top of all that, you're a cleric, which was already one of the most powerful classes even without a subclass.
Compare this to Nature Cleric and you start to see the divide I agree.
The class got so much on top of one of the most powerful/versatile class frames.
Wehenever the wording „filled with …“ is used in the rules, it usualy overrides the lighteffect in a certain area. In some cases this override has additional conditions like in the spelldescriptions of darkness or hollow. however, TS doesn‘t set a special condition, so any light-source that is brought into the area of TS will illuminate the area. If an external lightsouece like the sun will brighten the Area of ts up is not clear, but feels counterintuitive to me. I never wondered if TS produced dimmed light within sunlight because it was clear to me that this is how it works.
Question on the Twilight Sancturay related to the math of the class and the actions.
Channel Divinity: Twilight Sanctuary As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-ft. radius, and is filled with dim light. The sphere moves with you, and it lasts for 1 minute or until you are incapacitated or die. Whenever a creature (including you) ends its turn in the sphere, you can grant that creature one of these benefits:
- You grant it 1d6+4 temporary hit points.
- You end one effect on it causing it to be charmed or frightened.
My understanding (need conformation or clarification) --> So me, the cleric, cast TS. It has a radius generated from me out to 30'. I go through my actions and whatever, then at the end of my turn I roll 1d6 and add my cleric level to receive X number of temporary hit points. I add said temp hit points to my sheet.
Now tIme for some D&D math.
Current max HP 30 Cleric Level = 4 1d6 rolled = 6 Total Temp HP gained = 10 10 Temp HP is added to my sheet at the end of my round (round 1) 30 (+10) = 40hp
Now, the question. What happens at the end of round 2? Say nothing changed from the above math and I roll the exact same.
Current max HP 30 Cleric Level = 4 1d6 rolled = 6 Total Temp HP gained = 10 10 Temp HP is added to my sheet at the end of my round (round 2)? Again??? 30 (+10) = 40hp +the additional 10 temp hp?
so I would now have 30 +10 from rdn1 + 10 from rnd2 = 50hp
Awesome. Thank you for the clarification. I now understand the TEMP HP mechanic.
As per the example above, my dude's max hp =30, TS temp hp gained = 1d6+cleric level (we will say 10thp) = 40 total hp. If my dude takes damage, the TEMP HP is subtracted first and if depleted, HP is taken from my original pool of 30.
At the end of my turn on say, round 2, and having TS running, I can regain 1d6+cleric level TEMP HP again. Doing so round after round but only up to the 40hp mark for my level.
OR, yes there is an or... do I only regain the TEMP HP and not heal my original 30hp (adding the temp hp to my original pool?
Question on the Twilight Sancturay related to the math of the class and the actions.
Channel Divinity: Twilight Sanctuary As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-ft. radius, and is filled with dim light. The sphere moves with you, and it lasts for 1 minute or until you are incapacitated or die. Whenever a creature (including you) ends its turn in the sphere, you can grant that creature one of these benefits:
- You grant it 1d6+4 temporary hit points.
- You end one effect on it causing it to be charmed or frightened.
My understanding (need conformation or clarification) --> So me, the cleric, cast TS. It has a radius generated from me out to 30'. I go through my actions and whatever, then at the end of my turn I roll 1d6 and add my cleric level to receive X number of temporary hit points. I add said temp hit points to my sheet.
Note a few things:
you don't 'cast' this ability, it isn't a spell
it applies to allies in the area too, at the end of their respective turns.
Now tIme for some D&D math.
Current max HP 30 Cleric Level = 4 1d6 rolled = 6 Total Temp HP gained = 10 10 Temp HP is added to my sheet at the end of my round (round 1) 30 (+10) = 40hp
Now, the question. What happens at the end of round 2? Say nothing changed from the above math and I roll the exact same.
Current max HP 30 Cleric Level = 4 1d6 rolled = 6 Total Temp HP gained = 10 10 Temp HP is added to my sheet at the end of my round (round 2)? Again??? 30 (+10) = 40hp +the additional 10 temp hp?
so I would now have 30 +10 from rdn1 + 10 from rnd2 = 50hp
You now have a choice between 30 +10 or 30 + a different 10. Ie, you have 30 HP and 10 THP. They overlap, but not stack, you only keep the highest total.
This can't be right.... right? Every round?
It is entirely too powerful yes, but... no it doesn't stack the THP.
Awesome. Thank you for the clarification. I now understand the TEMP HP mechanic.
As per the example above, my dude's max hp =30, TS temp hp gained = 1d6+cleric level (we will say 10thp) = 40 total hp. If my dude takes damage, the TEMP HP is subtracted first and if depleted, HP is taken from my original pool of 30.
At the end of my turn on say, round 2, and having TS running, I can regain 1d6+cleric level TEMP HP again. Doing so round after round but only up to the 40hp mark for my level.
OR, yes there is an or... do I only regain the TEMP HP and not heal my original 30hp (adding the temp hp to my original pool?
HP and THP are separate. Gaining THP never restores lost HP.
Say you had 30 HP and 10 THP after round 1, but then got stabbed for 15 damage. You'd lose the 10 THP first. Then the remaining 5 damage would be taken from your HP. Dropping you to 25 HP. Then, say after your next round 2 turn, you roll 10 on the d6+4 again. You now have 25 HP and 10 THP.
Real World Example time....this just happened the other day on a Discord DnD Server:
Party of 4 level 5 PCs:
Twilight Cleric (TC)
Totem Bear Barb (TBB)
Gloomstalker Ranger (GR)
Fiend Warlock (FW)
Party runs into a tough fight: 4 Goblin Bosses, 2 Bugbears, 1 Bugbear Chief: Overall EXP rating: Deadly
Fight starts and Twilight Cleric rolls high (thanks advantage to initiative!): Immediately pulls up Twilight Sanctuary. Everyone gets 8 THP on their turn.
Barb goes next....RAGE! Goes in on the attack vs. Bugbear boss. Does some decent damage and swings on one of the goblins who happens to be near the chief doing significant damage.
Bugbear cheif hits 1 of 2 attacks (Barb is using shield + Warhammer) for 8 damage! Wait...resistance...NM 4 points of damage. Barb gets swarmed by the other goblins and 4 of 8 attacks hit for 20 damage! Wait no resistance...10 damage.
Bugbears attack the rest of the party...party attacks back. After 1 round 1 bugbear and 1 goblin is down (Gloomstalker focus fire FTW).
2nd round: Twilight clerics turn....he casts healing word on barbarian for 7 HP...back to full health!
Barb swings and kills one goblin. The other 2 disengage and flee to shoot short bows at the party. Bugbear chief stands his ground and hits 2 of 2 for 24 damage halved to 12.
Turn ends with another bugbear down and the party gets another 8 THP as the turns work though.
Barbarian kills chief on his turn with reckless crit!
Down to 2 goblins....being goblins and the fact the rest of their group just got their asses handed to them they GTFO. Combat ends.
All in all the barbarian takes a whopping 4 damage and gains 8 THP....party lets Twilight roll until they get max THP....why not?
So this one ability turns a deadly encounter into a joke for the party as they talk about how they only had to use 1st level spell and a short rest resource.
I like the real-time example and the use of TS within the example and how it was used. The TS ability turned the deadly encounter into a less deadly and manageable encounter. I think this is a great way to use the versatility of the Twilight Cleric. In this situation, it seems that the Cleric and Barb played their turns well and rolled high; a perfect storm of heals and damage.
If I was a DM in this situation, I would have added a bit more challenge to the encounter on the fly or even sent a few mobs to the cleric. After all, it's Dungeons and Dragons. It's a game of strategy, knowledge, skill, and a little bit of RNG for everyone and everything involved. Who's to say another band of Bugbears doesn't pop out after the others took off running... For future encounters, I would up the CR and number of monsters to extend a fight or adventuring challenge with a Twilight Cleric-enabled party. From my experience with 5e, I don't think any specific class ability can make or break an experience. It's all how the session adapts and evolves to player action. (IMO)
Good discussions though. The more I learn about playing the class with other races/classes in-game, makes it even more fun to both DM and play the Twilight Cleric.
I like the real-time example and the use of TS within the example and how it was used. The TS ability turned the deadly encounter into a less deadly and manageable encounter. I think this is a great way to use the versatility of the Twilight Cleric. In this situation, it seems that the Cleric and Barb played their turns well and rolled high; a perfect storm of heals and damage.
If I was a DM in this situation, I would have added a bit more challenge to the encounter on the fly or even sent a few mobs to the cleric. After all, it's Dungeons and Dragons. It's a game of strategy, knowledge, skill, and a little bit of RNG for everyone and everything involved. Who's to say another band of Bugbears doesn't pop out after the others took off running... For future encounters, I would up the CR and number of monsters to extend a fight or adventuring challenge with a Twilight Cleric-enabled party. From my experience with 5e, I don't think any specific class ability can make or break an experience. It's all how the session adapts and evolves to player action. (IMO)
Good discussions though. The more I learn about playing the class with other races/classes in-game, makes it even more fun to both DM and play the Twilight Cleric.
That's the thing... That's a deadly encounter by the numbers and if the cleric suddenly goes down.... Well that encounter just got a whole hell of a lot tougher and a TPK could be in the cards.
That's the problem with the ability to me is the impact is so high that when used can drastically reduce the difficulty but if not used and you had adjusted up already...ooh boy
People have been talking about the CD, but not the spells. one spell in particular is leomunds tiny hut. First cast leomunds tiny hut. then, use your CD. Then, you and everybody nearby are basically invincible for the next minute and after leomunds tiny hut is formed everybody gets an extra 1d6+level health and are now invincible while in the area.
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Hello!
By reading this signature, you have agreed to pull 20 cards from the deck of many things. If you lose your soul in any way, it will go to me and the following will happen: When you create your next character, you will become a celestial warlock in servitude to me. Once a month, I require an ounce of empyrean blood. If you fail to deliver on this, all the cards you pulled will converge on you at once.
What we did in my campaing changed Twilight Sanctuary working so that Cleric only throws once how much temp hp you get (when it is first used ) and that same number is used as long effect last. Second, temp hp only work if you end your turn in its aura and cleric can "see" character to give its benefits (so after 1min all temp HPs are lost, so is if twilight sanctuary goes down any reason before that, or character ends its turn outside of its effect or is outside of cleric LOS). These change made it less powerfull, but still very usefull.
Example in one encounter in our campaing when Twilight cleric used it, it was dispelled (with dispel magic and this varies from RAW as it can dispel or supress any magical effects) by enemy caster in same turn -> Effect was very short and didnt effect outcome that much.
EDIT: In RAW I believe those temp HP last only for max that 1min:
"Unless a feature that grants you temporary hit points has a duration, they last until they're depleted or you finish a long rest." -> Twilight Sanctuary has duration (1min or incapasitated)
People have been talking about the CD, but not the spells. one spell in particular is leomunds tiny hut. First cast leomunds tiny hut. then, use your CD. Then, you and everybody nearby are basically invincible for the next minute and after leomunds tiny hut is formed everybody gets an extra 1d6+level health and are now invincible while in the area.
Casting leomunds tiny hut takes whole minute (or 11min if you ritual cast it) to cast and all have to be "inside" during casting if want them to pass freely. Also spell and magical effect (which CD is) dont go outside (or inside) of it. So very sitatuational spell (but very good in some sitatuations)
It seems people are assuming the Temp HP aspect of this feature just pulses out to everyone at the end of each turn. Going by what it says, that's just wrong, it can only effect the creature/party member whose turn *just* ended, not everyone within the radius. It's not a whole lot of difference, but it does change a lot on how you're all arguing about things, I feel.
It seems people are assuming the Temp HP aspect of this feature just pulses out to everyone at the end of each turn. Going by what it says, that's just wrong, it can only effect the creature/party member whose turn *just* ended, not everyone within the radius. It's not a whole lot of difference, but it does change a lot on how you're all arguing about things, I feel.
Been a bit of time since ththe last post in theis thread but I didn't get the impression anyone thought that. While it can only affect the creature whose turn just ended it does not require the reaction of the cleric so every creature can get the twilight sanctuary benefit at the end of their turn and so everyone can get it once per round.
I think there are a little overreaction in this thread. Twilight cleric is one the best subclasses in the game, yes, and Twilight Sancuatuary is very good feature. But, i don't think this feature breack the game, or make combat trivial. I think that's an exaggeration. At low levels TS provide your party with impressive survivability. No other subclass in the game can pair with Twilight cleric in this aspect. But you are still killable. The examples before exposed, are examples where almost everything works out. And of course, the heroes overcome the challenge no matter how deadly it was. As it should be. I have had twilight clerics at table, and the party has had to suffer to achieve its objectives. Was having him in the party a great help? Yeah right, which shows how good it is, and how well it does the job it is supposed to do. Can things be difficult for a party where he is? Yes, it can be. Put a lot of low threat enemies on them. Separate them. Make them waste their resources. There a lot of things that you can do to make the game interesting. But nerfing the player features is a very bad thing to do. It is a sign of being a bad master. Taking the cool stuff from players, sucks. I'm not saying this with bad intentions, but it really seems a bit sad to me.
And, by the way, at high levels TS isn't a big deal. It's a little help, but nothing crazy. And that's the way it has to be, as it's a level 2 feature.
I think there are a little overreaction in this thread. Twilight cleric is one the best subclasses in the game, yes, and Twilight Sancuatuary is very good feature. But, i don't think this feature breack the game, or make combat trivial. I think that's an exaggeration. At low levels TS provide your party with impressive survivability. No other subclass in the game can pair with Twilight cleric in this aspect. But you are still killable. The examples before exposed, are examples where almost everything works out. And of course, the heroes overcome the challenge no matter how deadly it was. As it should be. I have had twilight clerics at table, and the party has had to suffer to achieve its objectives. Was having him in the party a great help? Yeah right, which shows how good it is, and how well it does the job it is supposed to do. Can things be difficult for a party where he is? Yes, it can be. Put a lot of low threat enemies on them. Separate them. Make them waste their resources. There a lot of things that you can do to make the game interesting. But nerfing the player features is a very bad thing to do. It is a sign of being a bad master. Taking the cool stuff from players, sucks. I'm not saying this with bad intentions, but it really seems a bit sad to me.
And, by the way, at high levels TS isn't a big deal. It's a little help, but nothing crazy. And that's the way it has to be, as it's a level 2 feature.
If you use calculations for CR, encounter difficulty, and mobs for combat you will reduce the Offensive CR of a creature by about 2-3 levels with this feature.
Doing this means you turn a deadly difficult encounter into a medium encounter. If you do manage to knock out the Twilight Cleric, they choose not to use the CD you are looking at a huge swing in encounter difficulty that could result in a much more challenging than intended fight.
If you are a DM who is good at improvising this likely won't be an issue....but not everyone is and its certainly NOT expected of a newer DM to have to deal with such things.
I can't think of another single class or subclass feature (Besides flight) that so drastically effects how you design encounters.
The major point being that it affects balance in a way that it is required to be thought about as a primary focus for each encounter it is used in. The fact you get so many uses of it (2 per short rest at level 6) this means that a good amount of tables this will be in play for just about every encounter....
That is what makes it too much for me.
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Compare this to Nature Cleric and you start to see the divide I agree.
The class got so much on top of one of the most powerful/versatile class frames.
Wehenever the wording „filled with …“ is used in the rules, it usualy overrides the lighteffect in a certain area. In some cases this override has additional conditions like in the spelldescriptions of darkness or hollow. however, TS doesn‘t set a special condition, so any light-source that is brought into the area of TS will illuminate the area. If an external lightsouece like the sun will brighten the Area of ts up is not clear, but feels counterintuitive to me. I never wondered if TS produced dimmed light within sunlight because it was clear to me that this is how it works.
Question on the Twilight Sancturay related to the math of the class and the actions.
Channel Divinity: Twilight Sanctuary
As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-ft. radius, and is filled with dim light. The sphere moves with you, and it lasts for 1 minute or until you are incapacitated or die. Whenever a creature (including you) ends its turn in the sphere, you can grant that creature one of these benefits:
- You grant it 1d6+4 temporary hit points.
- You end one effect on it causing it to be charmed or frightened.
My understanding (need conformation or clarification) --> So me, the cleric, cast TS. It has a radius generated from me out to 30'. I go through my actions and whatever, then at the end of my turn I roll 1d6 and add my cleric level to receive X number of temporary hit points. I add said temp hit points to my sheet.
Now tIme for some D&D math.
Now, the question. What happens at the end of round 2? Say nothing changed from the above math and I roll the exact same.
so I would now have 30 +10 from rdn1 + 10 from rnd2 = 50hp
This can't be right.... right? Every round?
Awesome. Thank you for the clarification. I now understand the TEMP HP mechanic.
As per the example above, my dude's max hp =30, TS temp hp gained = 1d6+cleric level (we will say 10thp) = 40 total hp. If my dude takes damage, the TEMP HP is subtracted first and if depleted, HP is taken from my original pool of 30.
At the end of my turn on say, round 2, and having TS running, I can regain 1d6+cleric level TEMP HP again. Doing so round after round but only up to the 40hp mark for my level.
OR, yes there is an or... do I only regain the TEMP HP and not heal my original 30hp (adding the temp hp to my original pool?
Note a few things:
You now have a choice between 30 +10 or 30 + a different 10. Ie, you have 30 HP and 10 THP. They overlap, but not stack, you only keep the highest total.
It is entirely too powerful yes, but... no it doesn't stack the THP.
I got quotes!
HP and THP are separate. Gaining THP never restores lost HP.
Say you had 30 HP and 10 THP after round 1, but then got stabbed for 15 damage. You'd lose the 10 THP first. Then the remaining 5 damage would be taken from your HP. Dropping you to 25 HP. Then, say after your next round 2 turn, you roll 10 on the d6+4 again. You now have 25 HP and 10 THP.
I got quotes!
Ahh, perfect. That's what I thought, but it's good to have the clarification. Thanks all for the answers. Very helpful.
Real World Example time....this just happened the other day on a Discord DnD Server:
Party of 4 level 5 PCs:
Twilight Cleric (TC)
Totem Bear Barb (TBB)
Gloomstalker Ranger (GR)
Fiend Warlock (FW)
Party runs into a tough fight: 4 Goblin Bosses, 2 Bugbears, 1 Bugbear Chief: Overall EXP rating: Deadly
Fight starts and Twilight Cleric rolls high (thanks advantage to initiative!): Immediately pulls up Twilight Sanctuary. Everyone gets 8 THP on their turn.
Barb goes next....RAGE! Goes in on the attack vs. Bugbear boss. Does some decent damage and swings on one of the goblins who happens to be near the chief doing significant damage.
Bugbear cheif hits 1 of 2 attacks (Barb is using shield + Warhammer) for 8 damage! Wait...resistance...NM 4 points of damage. Barb gets swarmed by the other goblins and 4 of 8 attacks hit for 20 damage! Wait no resistance...10 damage.
Bugbears attack the rest of the party...party attacks back. After 1 round 1 bugbear and 1 goblin is down (Gloomstalker focus fire FTW).
2nd round: Twilight clerics turn....he casts healing word on barbarian for 7 HP...back to full health!
Barb swings and kills one goblin. The other 2 disengage and flee to shoot short bows at the party. Bugbear chief stands his ground and hits 2 of 2 for 24 damage halved to 12.
Turn ends with another bugbear down and the party gets another 8 THP as the turns work though.
Barbarian kills chief on his turn with reckless crit!
Down to 2 goblins....being goblins and the fact the rest of their group just got their asses handed to them they GTFO. Combat ends.
All in all the barbarian takes a whopping 4 damage and gains 8 THP....party lets Twilight roll until they get max THP....why not?
So this one ability turns a deadly encounter into a joke for the party as they talk about how they only had to use 1st level spell and a short rest resource.
I like the real-time example and the use of TS within the example and how it was used. The TS ability turned the deadly encounter into a less deadly and manageable encounter. I think this is a great way to use the versatility of the Twilight Cleric. In this situation, it seems that the Cleric and Barb played their turns well and rolled high; a perfect storm of heals and damage.
If I was a DM in this situation, I would have added a bit more challenge to the encounter on the fly or even sent a few mobs to the cleric. After all, it's Dungeons and Dragons. It's a game of strategy, knowledge, skill, and a little bit of RNG for everyone and everything involved. Who's to say another band of Bugbears doesn't pop out after the others took off running... For future encounters, I would up the CR and number of monsters to extend a fight or adventuring challenge with a Twilight Cleric-enabled party. From my experience with 5e, I don't think any specific class ability can make or break an experience. It's all how the session adapts and evolves to player action. (IMO)
Good discussions though. The more I learn about playing the class with other races/classes in-game, makes it even more fun to both DM and play the Twilight Cleric.
That's the thing... That's a deadly encounter by the numbers and if the cleric suddenly goes down.... Well that encounter just got a whole hell of a lot tougher and a TPK could be in the cards.
That's the problem with the ability to me is the impact is so high that when used can drastically reduce the difficulty but if not used and you had adjusted up already...ooh boy
Just play a party of 4 Twilight Clerics.
People have been talking about the CD, but not the spells. one spell in particular is leomunds tiny hut. First cast leomunds tiny hut. then, use your CD. Then, you and everybody nearby are basically invincible for the next minute and after leomunds tiny hut is formed everybody gets an extra 1d6+level health and are now invincible while in the area.
Hello!
By reading this signature, you have agreed to pull 20 cards from the deck of many things. If you lose your soul in any way, it will go to me and the following will happen: When you create your next character, you will become a celestial warlock in servitude to me. Once a month, I require an ounce of empyrean blood. If you fail to deliver on this, all the cards you pulled will converge on you at once.
Many thanks,
Gweledydd Slantse
What we did in my campaing changed Twilight Sanctuary working so that Cleric only throws once how much temp hp you get (when it is first used ) and that same number is used as long effect last. Second, temp hp only work if you end your turn in its aura and cleric can "see" character to give its benefits (so after 1min all temp HPs are lost, so is if twilight sanctuary goes down any reason before that, or character ends its turn outside of its effect or is outside of cleric LOS). These change made it less powerfull, but still very usefull.
Example in one encounter in our campaing when Twilight cleric used it, it was dispelled (with dispel magic and this varies from RAW as it can dispel or supress any magical effects) by enemy caster in same turn -> Effect was very short and didnt effect outcome that much.
EDIT: In RAW I believe those temp HP last only for max that 1min:
"Unless a feature that grants you temporary hit points has a duration, they last until they're depleted or you finish a long rest." -> Twilight Sanctuary has duration (1min or incapasitated)
Casting leomunds tiny hut takes whole minute (or 11min if you ritual cast it) to cast and all have to be "inside" during casting if want them to pass freely. Also spell and magical effect (which CD is) dont go outside (or inside) of it. So very sitatuational spell (but very good in some sitatuations)
It seems people are assuming the Temp HP aspect of this feature just pulses out to everyone at the end of each turn. Going by what it says, that's just wrong, it can only effect the creature/party member whose turn *just* ended, not everyone within the radius. It's not a whole lot of difference, but it does change a lot on how you're all arguing about things, I feel.
Been a bit of time since ththe last post in theis thread but I didn't get the impression anyone thought that. While it can only affect the creature whose turn just ended it does not require the reaction of the cleric so every creature can get the twilight sanctuary benefit at the end of their turn and so everyone can get it once per round.
You may be interested in this more recent post on the same issue https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/125605-twilight-cleric-channel-divinity
I think there are a little overreaction in this thread. Twilight cleric is one the best subclasses in the game, yes, and Twilight Sancuatuary is very good feature. But, i don't think this feature breack the game, or make combat trivial. I think that's an exaggeration. At low levels TS provide your party with impressive survivability. No other subclass in the game can pair with Twilight cleric in this aspect. But you are still killable. The examples before exposed, are examples where almost everything works out. And of course, the heroes overcome the challenge no matter how deadly it was. As it should be. I have had twilight clerics at table, and the party has had to suffer to achieve its objectives. Was having him in the party a great help? Yeah right, which shows how good it is, and how well it does the job it is supposed to do. Can things be difficult for a party where he is? Yes, it can be. Put a lot of low threat enemies on them. Separate them. Make them waste their resources. There a lot of things that you can do to make the game interesting. But nerfing the player features is a very bad thing to do. It is a sign of being a bad master. Taking the cool stuff from players, sucks. I'm not saying this with bad intentions, but it really seems a bit sad to me.
And, by the way, at high levels TS isn't a big deal. It's a little help, but nothing crazy. And that's the way it has to be, as it's a level 2 feature.
If you use calculations for CR, encounter difficulty, and mobs for combat you will reduce the Offensive CR of a creature by about 2-3 levels with this feature.
Doing this means you turn a deadly difficult encounter into a medium encounter. If you do manage to knock out the Twilight Cleric, they choose not to use the CD you are looking at a huge swing in encounter difficulty that could result in a much more challenging than intended fight.
If you are a DM who is good at improvising this likely won't be an issue....but not everyone is and its certainly NOT expected of a newer DM to have to deal with such things.
I can't think of another single class or subclass feature (Besides flight) that so drastically effects how you design encounters.
The major point being that it affects balance in a way that it is required to be thought about as a primary focus for each encounter it is used in. The fact you get so many uses of it (2 per short rest at level 6) this means that a good amount of tables this will be in play for just about every encounter....
That is what makes it too much for me.