I believe that the clarification on the 1st level spell slot made by JC (which I report below for convenience) is because in the very same answer he said that each berry restore 4 hit points instead of 1. The increased number of restored hit points depends on the spell level (2+ spell level). So in case of goodberry at 1st level: 1 (berry) + 2 + 1/spell level = 4.
If you cast Goodberry with 2nd level, the total hit points restored are 5.
If I’m a cleric/druid with the Disciple of Life feature, does the goodberry spell benefit from the feature? Yes. The Disciple of Life feature would make each berry restore 4 hit points, instead of 1, assuming you cast goodberry with a 1st-level spell slot.
My interpretation is that they are magically filling, like mana from Heaven. They may be in the shape of berries, but they are magical in nature, so one per day is the limit in my games. The other issue, is the intent of the spell. I do not believe that the intent was to have a first level spell that could heal an entire party between combats. So, this may work in your game, but not mine. Which is the beauty of the game; each group can interpret the rules as they wish.
The part that forces all these questions is found in multiple sources, with using the link someone here provided, the 5thsrd, and this very site in the Druid spells. They all state "up to 10 appear" but do not actually say 1d10. In my experience, if you had 10 berries, how many parties are 10 characters strong and how is wasting a 1st level spell worth it to give your party each 1 HP? The Life Domain makes it somewhat worth it. That being said, I like the idea of eating more than 2 causes negative affects...and the DM being able to decide is the best idea always.
Yeah I hear ya Stormknight. I'd say if your a DM and your players are decent enough folk then your table may agree that the healing comes into effect on
the first berry
+1 (total of +3) to selective berries (chosen by Cleric or DM)
Another reason to consider is that the clerics divine power is coming is coming from the deity. The deity is probably willing to give the +3 HP but imagine if all clerics learnt this spell. The Deity would be insanely drained :P
I like the idea that you can benefit from up to x berries, where x is your Constitution modifier (minimum 1).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I just don't really understand the big deal, here. I also want to call shenanigans on the one berry per day rule, you'd never put this restriction on a Druid without this ability so I think it's shenanigans to artificially impose one now. If you had a Druid without this ability would you argue the party can't eat more then 1 day even though it only heals a single HP? If that's true all it's good for is replacing the cost of a ration or reviving someone from Death Saves.
In my current game the Druid (lacks this ability) casts Goodberry once a day at breakfast and every party member gets 2 berries, so if anyone goes down in combat every character has a way to heal every other character. We only have a Paladin and Artificer for healing.
As for the Feat: Goodberry is a Druid/Ranger spell not a Cleric spell. So either you're a 1st level human who is using her Alt-Class feat to cast Goodberry. This gives only a single casting per day unless you also multiclassed in that class. (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats/) If you didn't do that then you are taking it in lieu of ability score increases or a different feat. Lets keep perspective on what Feats can accomplish in this edition: Feats do things like give attacks as Bonus Actions, ignore cover, immune to suprise, etc...
The next option is dippling a level (Druid) or two (Ranger) This does give you as many castings as you have spell slots (although casting it at a higher level doesn't improve the spell). Now a player sacrificing (a) level(s) in your class just to get a single spell and be really good at it using it.
Ultimately yes, it's a pretty baller, a level 1 spell goes from healing 10 HP to 40 HP, but remember that still requires sacrifcing 10 actions, so it's 4 HP/action. A CR:1/2 skeleton does that 3 damage a round at mininum. Ultimately it's not all that much healing and in a per-turn economy it's not usually a great use of an action unless it's an emergency.
If you sacrifice all your spells for it, it can keep the party going a lot longer then normal, but it's still sub-optimal use in a lot of situations and is still best for out-of-combat healing or avoid a Death Savinging throw. Yes, it will allow the party to adventure for longer then they may otherwise, but is that a bad thing?
Note: My perspective might be used to more high combat games and especially 3.5 where our party kept a "party fund" (all gold was divided by PCs+1, and the +1 went to the fund) for healing and consumables. We collectively bought Wand of Cure Light (market price is 750g) in bundles to constantly to stay topped up.
Personally, I would still say that the berries should only be 1 per day (or my idea of a number of times per day equal to your Constitution modifier - minimum 1), because of the idea of it being the equivalent of an entire's day worth of food and then eating 10 of them yourself, seems kinda stupid (no matter what class is casting the spell). If you eat any more than that, I'd call for a Constitution saving throw to avoid Exhaustion. But, that's just me as a DM. However, seeing as Feats and Multiclassing are both up to your DM (as they are optional rules), all of this pretty much falls under DM rulings and standard rules pretty much don't apply.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The spell never talks about how many you can eat or any other restrictions. There are just no mechanics for it. Adding a restriction, or saying that because one berry serves as a days worth of food that eating 10 is 10 days worth of food is pure dm fiat territory. There isn't any mechanical support for how the berries work other than healing HP and preventing your character from going hungry for a day (and also only lasting 1 day). The best part about magic is that it doesn't need an explanation, it just works.
The spell never talks about how many you can eat or any other restrictions. There are just no mechanics for it. Adding a restriction, or saying that because one berry serves as a days worth of food that eating 10 is 10 days worth of food is pure dm fiat territory. There isn't any mechanical support for how the berries work other than healing HP and preventing your character from going hungry for a day (and also only lasting 1 day). The best part about magic is that it doesn't need an explanation, it just works.
The book also never talks about what happens if you eat too much food naturally. So, I mean, by that measure, a Sprite could eat an entire cow in one sitting, since there are no rule mechanics for it.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Sure. There's no effect mechanically, so there's no real need for there to be rules on it. The fantasy worlds we play in don't follow the same natural laws that our world does, notably because magic exists, so its entirely reasonable that bizzare things happen. There are many things that don't make sense, but are unquestionably part of how the game runs. These things don't require an explanation to function, they just work however you want to justify it. Its a different matter, however, when those justifications start weighing the same as rules. Any DM is fully free to determine their own adjudications and rulings, but those will purely be up to that individual. There's no official support for those rulings. All we know about how Goodberry is supposed to work comes from the text itself and Sage Advice for clarifications. And like I said, there's nothing wrong with making those, as its part of running a smooth game. However, there comes a point where the additional rules create conflicts that wouldn't otherwise exist.
I think in previous editions higher level castings made more berries, he may have just been thinking of another edition or was unsure if the spell did or did not have higher level castings and stated in a way to be clear no matter the case.
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For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
Just to vote on the topic: If it were my game I'd allow the feature to effect good berry, I'd allow you to eat as many as you'd like each day, but the disciple of life feature would grant you extra healing that could be infused into specific berries. So if you cast Goodberry with a 1st level spell slot you get an extra 3 hp that you can infuse into berries how you'd like. So you could have 3 berries that heal an additional 1 hp, or 1 mega berry that heals for 4. This allows for the disciple of life feature to grant up to an extra 11 hp to the berries if cast with a 9th level spell slot. I know it runs against what seems to be the popular "min/max" ruling but, imho multi-classing and feat selection should not be paths to making your character more powerful than everyone else, but rather to add flavor and, at most, options.
That being said, my confusion is why with a description like: "Up to ten berries appear in your hand..." why this spell is in the transmutation school and not the conjuration school.
I would also add, that the "Up to ten" statement, in and of itself, would be an indication of a 1d10 roll to see how many you get. I know that it doesn't explicitly state it, however if you were getting ten berries each and every time, wouldn't the description be written minus the "up to" ?
I havent read it in a while but say during a fight you used 8 berries and had 2 left, you could recast to get the 8 berries back. I think its more of a cap so you don't run around with 500 berries trying to cure world hunger, or using them to barter say in a desert where food is scarce.
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For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
I would also add, that the "Up to ten" statement, in and of itself, would be an indication of a 1d10 roll to see how many you get. I know that it doesn't explicitly state it, however if you were getting ten berries each and every time, wouldn't the description be written minus the "up to" ?
That's not how "up to" works in pretty much any other spell though. "Target up to two creatures" doesn't mean roll a d2 and see how many you can target. It means you can choose either one or two targets. Up to ten means you can generate any number of berries up to the maximum number. Now, why you would choose not to do ten would be entirely situational |
Maybe you are a ranger who has been captured by an anti-magic group of people and you sustain yourself while waiting to be rescued. To create more than one berry in your prison would tip off the guards that you are a magic user (since these berries aren't exactly native to your jail cell) and would invite unwanted attention.
I havent read it in a while but say during a fight you used 8 berries and had 2 left, you could recast to get the 8 berries back. I think its more of a cap so you don't run around with 500 berries trying to cure world hunger, or using them to barter say in a desert where food is scarce.
There's no limit to the amount of berries you can have (other than available spell slots and the 24 hour "duration")
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I have played many games as a Life Cleric with a Druid dip for Goodberry. I have never had an issue with the DM considering this out of control. It could possibly be because I don't take advantage of it. As a player, I always limit myself to one Goodberry spell per day, since I do not think my character would go beyond that. It's intent it to be a food source and, since it is magical, it happens to give you an additional HP.
So long as players are not trying to abuse the system I don't think that DMs should penalize those who are using the rules to their advantage. If a DM finds that they need to nerf something, it's usually because bad players are abusing it. As a DM give players the benefit of a doubt. If they abuse the system, nerf it. If they don't, let them take advantage of a good thing.
I wouldn't allow the 4 hp per berry, but i would allow someone eating all 10 for 10 hp. The reason I don't allow the bonus healing is it is a druid spell and not a cleric spell. That being said I love the goodberry spell as it cuts down on required carry rations for up to to 10 persons.
I understand that there was an official clarification that the Life Cleric ability "Disciple of Life" adds +3 healing to each berry, but I consider that to be a bad clarification.
Let's compare Goodberry & Cure Wounds.
Goodberry (1st level Druid spell)
10 points of healing.
Cure Wounds (1st level Cleric spell)
Assuming a caster stat bonus of +3, then the 1st level spell Cure Wounds would heal 1d8 +3 for wisdom. Average roll is 5, meaning a total of 8 healing.
That seems fair - Cure Wounds is much more flexible in a fight.
Add in "Disciple of Life" to Cure Wounds and it goes up from 8 healing to 11 healing. That's a 37% increase in effectiveness on an average roll.
So, it would seem reasonable that "Disciple of Life" would give a similar magnitude of bonus on Goodberry, increasing the total healing of the spell by +3. The simplest way to achieve this is to say that the spell now produces 13 berries.
Saying that Goodberry still produces 10 berries, but each one does 4 points of healing now .... that means a 1st level spell is doing 40 healing. It's also a 300% increase in the power of the spell, which goes against the design principles of how the game works imho.
Is that Official the +3 to life clerics? I ask as it says +2 in the Cleric Description here on DDB.
i think its important to keep in mind that taking goodberry with the life domain is not free.. the character has to either multi-class or take the magic initiate feat. That incurs costs that on some levels make up for the strong healing properties.
Also with the healing in this edition being rather high, like using HD during rests or regaining all lost HP after a long rest etc., only eating 1 berry per action is a good trade off and the berries have a limited lifespan so cannot be taken away by others, if you find you are popping these down to heal during combat, at 1hp or 4hp, you may be in a little more trouble than you though and should probably run anyway. And its easier to have these laying around than having to give out healing potions.
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I believe that the clarification on the 1st level spell slot made by JC (which I report below for convenience) is because in the very same answer he said that each berry restore 4 hit points instead of 1. The increased number of restored hit points depends on the spell level (2+ spell level). So in case of goodberry at 1st level: 1 (berry) + 2 + 1/spell level = 4.
If you cast Goodberry with 2nd level, the total hit points restored are 5.
If I’m a cleric/druid with the Disciple of Life feature, does the goodberry spell benefit from the feature?
Yes. The Disciple of Life feature would make each berry restore 4 hit points, instead of 1, assuming you cast goodberry with a 1st-level spell slot.
My interpretation is that they are magically filling, like mana from Heaven. They may be in the shape of berries, but they are magical in nature, so one per day is the limit in my games. The other issue, is the intent of the spell. I do not believe that the intent was to have a first level spell that could heal an entire party between combats. So, this may work in your game, but not mine. Which is the beauty of the game; each group can interpret the rules as they wish.
The part that forces all these questions is found in multiple sources, with using the link someone here provided, the 5thsrd, and this very site in the Druid spells. They all state "up to 10 appear" but do not actually say 1d10. In my experience, if you had 10 berries, how many parties are 10 characters strong and how is wasting a 1st level spell worth it to give your party each 1 HP? The Life Domain makes it somewhat worth it. That being said, I like the idea of eating more than 2 causes negative affects...and the DM being able to decide is the best idea always.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The spell never talks about how many you can eat or any other restrictions. There are just no mechanics for it. Adding a restriction, or saying that because one berry serves as a days worth of food that eating 10 is 10 days worth of food is pure dm fiat territory. There isn't any mechanical support for how the berries work other than healing HP and preventing your character from going hungry for a day (and also only lasting 1 day). The best part about magic is that it doesn't need an explanation, it just works.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Sure. There's no effect mechanically, so there's no real need for there to be rules on it. The fantasy worlds we play in don't follow the same natural laws that our world does, notably because magic exists, so its entirely reasonable that bizzare things happen. There are many things that don't make sense, but are unquestionably part of how the game runs. These things don't require an explanation to function, they just work however you want to justify it. Its a different matter, however, when those justifications start weighing the same as rules. Any DM is fully free to determine their own adjudications and rulings, but those will purely be up to that individual. There's no official support for those rulings. All we know about how Goodberry is supposed to work comes from the text itself and Sage Advice for clarifications. And like I said, there's nothing wrong with making those, as its part of running a smooth game. However, there comes a point where the additional rules create conflicts that wouldn't otherwise exist.
I think in previous editions higher level castings made more berries, he may have just been thinking of another edition or was unsure if the spell did or did not have higher level castings and stated in a way to be clear no matter the case.
For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
Just to vote on the topic: If it were my game I'd allow the feature to effect good berry, I'd allow you to eat as many as you'd like each day, but the disciple of life feature would grant you extra healing that could be infused into specific berries. So if you cast Goodberry with a 1st level spell slot you get an extra 3 hp that you can infuse into berries how you'd like. So you could have 3 berries that heal an additional 1 hp, or 1 mega berry that heals for 4. This allows for the disciple of life feature to grant up to an extra 11 hp to the berries if cast with a 9th level spell slot. I know it runs against what seems to be the popular "min/max" ruling but, imho multi-classing and feat selection should not be paths to making your character more powerful than everyone else, but rather to add flavor and, at most, options.
That being said, my confusion is why with a description like: "Up to ten berries appear in your hand..." why this spell is in the transmutation school and not the conjuration school.
I would also add, that the "Up to ten" statement, in and of itself, would be an indication of a 1d10 roll to see how many you get. I know that it doesn't explicitly state it, however if you were getting ten berries each and every time, wouldn't the description be written minus the "up to" ?
- Stu
#6321 on Discord.
You can choose to create less than 10 berries.
I havent read it in a while but say during a fight you used 8 berries and had 2 left, you could recast to get the 8 berries back. I think its more of a cap so you don't run around with 500 berries trying to cure world hunger, or using them to barter say in a desert where food is scarce.
For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
Maybe you are a ranger who has been captured by an anti-magic group of people and you sustain yourself while waiting to be rescued. To create more than one berry in your prison would tip off the guards that you are a magic user (since these berries aren't exactly native to your jail cell) and would invite unwanted attention.
There's no limit to the amount of berries you can have (other than available spell slots and the 24 hour "duration")
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I thought I remembered a sentence at the end that said when you cast it again the old ones lose potency.
For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
I have played many games as a Life Cleric with a Druid dip for Goodberry. I have never had an issue with the DM considering this out of control. It could possibly be because I don't take advantage of it. As a player, I always limit myself to one Goodberry spell per day, since I do not think my character would go beyond that. It's intent it to be a food source and, since it is magical, it happens to give you an additional HP.
So long as players are not trying to abuse the system I don't think that DMs should penalize those who are using the rules to their advantage. If a DM finds that they need to nerf something, it's usually because bad players are abusing it. As a DM give players the benefit of a doubt. If they abuse the system, nerf it. If they don't, let them take advantage of a good thing.
Hello!
I wouldn't allow the 4 hp per berry, but i would allow someone eating all 10 for 10 hp. The reason I don't allow the bonus healing is it is a druid spell and not a cleric spell. That being said I love the goodberry spell as it cuts down on required carry rations for up to to 10 persons.
So goodberry heals 4 HP. 1 (base) + 2 (Life Cleric) + 1 (spell level of Goodberry)
i think its important to keep in mind that taking goodberry with the life domain is not free.. the character has to either multi-class or take the magic initiate feat. That incurs costs that on some levels make up for the strong healing properties.
Also with the healing in this edition being rather high, like using HD during rests or regaining all lost HP after a long rest etc., only eating 1 berry per action is a good trade off and the berries have a limited lifespan so cannot be taken away by others, if you find you are popping these down to heal during combat, at 1hp or 4hp, you may be in a little more trouble than you though and should probably run anyway. And its easier to have these laying around than having to give out healing potions.