Shillelagh makes your club use your wisdom instead of strength or dexterity for weapon attacks. Green Flameblade and Booming Blade use a melee weapon attack as part of the casting.
As you are level nine you get the level 8 feature for arcana clerics, letting you add your wisdom mod to your cantrips. Which does stack with GFB and BB (not Shillelagh) giving you the following with Shillelagh active:
GFB: To hit +8. Damage: 1d8+4 Piercing, 1d8+4 fire, and 1d8+8 fire to another target.
BB: To hit +8. Damage: 1d8+4 Piercing, 1d8+4 Thunder and another 2d8+4 if the target moves.
I recently played an Arana Cleric myself and they make a pretty good spellblade. After the first round wherr you'd activate Shillelagh as a bonus action and attack with either BB or GFB you could then use spiritual weapon for even more damage in a single turn. Grant it, if you miss that first attack you dont deal a whole lot, but it's a cantrip so you're never wasting resources.
Potent Spellcasting Starting at 8th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.
booming blade and green flame blade are, in fact not cleric cantrips but wizard cantrips. This is accounted for with arcane initiate; "for you, these cantrips count as cleric cantrips" which is totally legal RAW, however, there has never been a case where ability modifiers are added twice, which makes this kind of come off as an exploit... just sayin'
perhaps + wis mod to damage once per target? just a thought.
booming blade and green flame blade are, in fact not cleric cantrips but wizard cantrips. This is accounted for with arcane initiate; "for you, these cantrips count as cleric cantrips" which is totally legal RAW, however, there has never been a case where ability modifiers are added twice, which makes this kind of come off as an exploit... just sayin'
Hexblade Warlocks can do that with the Lifedrinker eldritch invocation. With 3 levels in Paladin they could add their CHA to damage a third time using Channel Divinity: Sacred Weapon.
The intent is probably that the new d8 damage die for the weapon isn't considered part of the spell's damage since the spell has to separately point out that the weapon becomes magical. A spell's damage is always magical, so there'd be no need to point that out if you were technically dealing damage with the spell.
So starting at level 5, the damage for BB would be 1d8 +4 (shillelagh with wisdom at 18), + 1d8 extra thunder damage, in the case of the target moving away another 2d8 thunder dmg
and for GFB starting at level 5 the damage would be 1d8+4 (shillelagh with wisdom at 18), + 1d8 extra fire damage, in the case of another target 5’feet away, + 1d8+4 (spell casting modifier) fire dmg to it
in both cases i have a +8 to hit due to wisdom and proficiency bonus
Indeed! And as i said above if you hit level 8 RAW you then get to add an additional +4 to each damage roll of the cantrips (not Shillelagh as it doesn't deal damage, just changes the weapon. And it's a druid cantrip.)
hex warrior gives you a choice to use cha mod instead, for weapon attacks. the thread is about spell damage
lifedrinker adds necrotic damage "equal" to your cha mod minimum 1, which is not the same as adding a modifier a second time, also it's a weapon attack
sacred weapon applies to weapon attack rolls, not spell damage.
again this seems skeevy to add Wis to damage twice when other spells that could be used for the arcane initiate/potent spellcaster feature cannot benefit from that since there is only one dog roll for them.
hex warrior gives you a choice to use cha mod instead, for weapon attacks. the thread is about spell damage
That's a totally arbitrary distinction to make. Damage rolls are damage rolls and there's nothing special about adding your ability modifier 1, 2, or 3 times.
lifedrinker adds necrotic damage "equal" to your cha mod minimum 1, which is not the same as adding a modifier a second time, also it's a weapon attack
There's functionally no difference between adding your modifier and adding a bonus equal to your modifier. It's exactly the same.
But if you insist: Draconic Sorcerer 6/Celestial Warlock 6. Double CHA mod to one damage roll on fire spells.
So starting at level 5, the damage for BB would be 1d8 +4 (shillelagh with wisdom at 18), + 1d8 extra thunder damage, in the case of the target moving away another 2d8 thunder dmg
and for GFB starting at level 5 the damage would be 1d8+4 (shillelagh with wisdom at 18), + 1d8 extra fire damage, in the case of another target 5’feet away, + 1d8+4 (spell casting modifier) fire dmg to it
in both cases i have a +8 to hit due to wisdom and proficiency bonus
I am going with this.
This is one of the things in hate about 5e is the confusion about certain spell mechanics.
Potent Spellcasting Starting at 8th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.
booming blade and green flame blade are, in fact not cleric cantrips but wizard cantrips. This is accounted for with arcane initiate; "for you, these cantrips count as cleric cantrips" which is totally legal RAW, however, there has never been a case where ability modifiers are added twice, which makes this kind of come off as an exploit... just sayin'
perhaps + wis mod to damage once per target? just a thought.
You're not stacking the modifier twice. You're stacking the melee damage modifier with the spell damage modifier. That those both use the same stat is irrelevant. If the same character were using a longsword with a 16 str or a rapier with a 16 dex, you're getting the exact same number, provided you still have your 16 wisdom. (D8+3) from weapon + (D8+3) from spell. The only difference is, it's slightly less MAD because you only require one stat. Warlocks with shillelagh (when taken as tome) and bards with shillelagh (magical secrets) have the same benefit but using charisma. Hexblades just get it out of the box with their chosen weapon.
Using your spell casting stat as your melee stat is rare, but not unheard of. It's good, but not broken.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Potent Spellcasting Starting at 8th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.
booming blade and green flame blade are, in fact not cleric cantrips but wizard cantrips. This is accounted for with arcane initiate; "for you, these cantrips count as cleric cantrips" which is totally legal RAW, however, there has never been a case where ability modifiers are added twice, which makes this kind of come off as an exploit... just sayin'
perhaps + wis mod to damage once per target? just a thought.
You're not stacking the modifier twice. You're stacking the melee damage modifier with the spell damage modifier. That those both use the same stat is irrelevant. If the same character were using a longsword with a 16 str or a rapier with a 16 dex, you're getting the exact same number, provided you still have your 16 wisdom. (D8+3) from weapon + (D8+3) from spell. The only difference is, it's slightly less MAD because you only require one stat. Warlocks with shillelagh (when taken as tome) and bards with shillelagh (magical secrets) have the same benefit but using charisma. Hexblades just get it out of the box with their chosen weapon.
Using your spell casting stat as your melee stat is rare, but not unheard of. It's good, but not broken.
that's not what the discussion was about.
I took the view that potent spellcasting should not benefit the same cantrip twice on the same cast, either to a different target (gfb) or with a delay(bb) when other cantrips that do damage only get one application of potent spellcasting.
also, considering the ability is buried behind 8th level and a melee attack roll; it was never even close to broken, I just would have ruled it once per cast.
Shillelagh works as you describe, it just wasn't what I was talking about.
The difference between a sorcerer doing this and the arcana cleric is exactly the arcana cleric’s special ability potent spellcasting. Were it not applied, that ability would be nullified but only in the case of those two cantrips. How would that be fair?
It’s not like they’re stacking extra attacks onto it. It’s a cantrip and not the attack action. That would be over the top.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello, i would like a clear explination on the use of the Shillelagh cantrip, its use with booming blade and green flame blade.
So i am rolling a level nine human variant arcana domain cleric:
Feats are war caster, magic initiate (druid) for Shillelagh, thorn whip and absorb elements and +2 asi to wisdom.
Now stats in wisdom is 18 for sure.
While using Shillelagh and either bb or gfb what is my to hit and damage?
Is it +8 hit and +4 dmg before rolling dice? I am going to use a club with shield and half-plate with 16 dex so i will have an ac of 19.
Also i will have a mace, so basically using it i will get the proficiency bonus only due to a 10 in str?
I am not couting any magical items just raw stats nor any spells that i will use.
Any help, comments are appreciated!
Shillelagh makes your club use your wisdom instead of strength or dexterity for weapon attacks. Green Flameblade and Booming Blade use a melee weapon attack as part of the casting.
As you are level nine you get the level 8 feature for arcana clerics, letting you add your wisdom mod to your cantrips. Which does stack with GFB and BB (not Shillelagh) giving you the following with Shillelagh active:
GFB: To hit +8. Damage: 1d8+4 Piercing, 1d8+4 fire, and 1d8+8 fire to another target.
BB: To hit +8. Damage: 1d8+4 Piercing, 1d8+4 Thunder and another 2d8+4 if the target moves.
I recently played an Arana Cleric myself and they make a pretty good spellblade. After the first round wherr you'd activate Shillelagh as a bonus action and attack with either BB or GFB you could then use spiritual weapon for even more damage in a single turn. Grant it, if you miss that first attack you dont deal a whole lot, but it's a cantrip so you're never wasting resources.
in my view this is a non starter,
ref arcana domain:
Potent Spellcasting Starting at 8th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.
booming blade and green flame blade are, in fact not cleric cantrips but wizard cantrips. This is accounted for with arcane initiate; "for you, these cantrips count as cleric cantrips" which is totally legal RAW, however, there has never been a case where ability modifiers are added twice, which makes this kind of come off as an exploit... just sayin'
perhaps + wis mod to damage once per target? just a thought.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Hexblade Warlocks can do that with the Lifedrinker eldritch invocation. With 3 levels in Paladin they could add their CHA to damage a third time using Channel Divinity: Sacred Weapon.
The intent is probably that the new d8 damage die for the weapon isn't considered part of the spell's damage since the spell has to separately point out that the weapon becomes magical. A spell's damage is always magical, so there'd be no need to point that out if you were technically dealing damage with the spell.
Thanks for the replies guys!
So starting at level 5, the damage for BB would be 1d8 +4 (shillelagh with wisdom at 18), + 1d8 extra thunder damage, in the case of the target moving away another 2d8 thunder dmg
and for GFB starting at level 5 the damage would be 1d8+4 (shillelagh with wisdom at 18), + 1d8 extra fire damage, in the case of another target 5’feet away, + 1d8+4 (spell casting modifier) fire dmg to it
in both cases i have a +8 to hit due to wisdom and proficiency bonus
Indeed! And as i said above if you hit level 8 RAW you then get to add an additional +4 to each damage roll of the cantrips (not Shillelagh as it doesn't deal damage, just changes the weapon. And it's a druid cantrip.)
hex warrior gives you a choice to use cha mod instead, for weapon attacks. the thread is about spell damage
lifedrinker adds necrotic damage "equal" to your cha mod minimum 1, which is not the same as adding a modifier a second time, also it's a weapon attack
sacred weapon applies to weapon attack rolls, not spell damage.
again this seems skeevy to add Wis to damage twice when other spells that could be used for the arcane initiate/potent spellcaster feature cannot benefit from that since there is only one dog roll for them.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
That's a totally arbitrary distinction to make. Damage rolls are damage rolls and there's nothing special about adding your ability modifier 1, 2, or 3 times.
There's functionally no difference between adding your modifier and adding a bonus equal to your modifier. It's exactly the same.
But if you insist: Draconic Sorcerer 6/Celestial Warlock 6. Double CHA mod to one damage roll on fire spells.
I can see two differing sides on this one.
On one hand:
Shillelagh changes your weapon damage to 1d8+WIS magical
Potent Spellcaster adds WIS to your cleric cantrip damage
Would it matter if you apply the same modifier twice to the same function, or only once but doubled?
EG: (WIS + WIS) vs 2x(WIS)
I know in previous versions you couldnt have the same modifier applied more than once in most circumstances.
I am going with this.
This is one of the things in hate about 5e is the confusion about certain spell mechanics.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/756203803339173888
Am i reading that correctly? It adds the bonus damage to both the melee weapon damage bonus AND the secondary effect damage?
I might have found my next character build haha.
Indeed!
But only after level 5. Which, by the time you have Poteny Spellcasting, it's a nonissue.
You're not stacking the modifier twice. You're stacking the melee damage modifier with the spell damage modifier. That those both use the same stat is irrelevant. If the same character were using a longsword with a 16 str or a rapier with a 16 dex, you're getting the exact same number, provided you still have your 16 wisdom. (D8+3) from weapon + (D8+3) from spell. The only difference is, it's slightly less MAD because you only require one stat. Warlocks with shillelagh (when taken as tome) and bards with shillelagh (magical secrets) have the same benefit but using charisma. Hexblades just get it out of the box with their chosen weapon.
Using your spell casting stat as your melee stat is rare, but not unheard of. It's good, but not broken.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
that's not what the discussion was about.
I took the view that potent spellcasting should not benefit the same cantrip twice on the same cast, either to a different target (gfb) or with a delay(bb) when other cantrips that do damage only get one application of potent spellcasting.
also, considering the ability is buried behind 8th level and a melee attack roll; it was never even close to broken, I just would have ruled it once per cast.
Shillelagh works as you describe, it just wasn't what I was talking about.
cheers
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
The difference between a sorcerer doing this and the arcana cleric is exactly the arcana cleric’s special ability potent spellcasting. Were it not applied, that ability would be nullified but only in the case of those two cantrips. How would that be fair?
It’s not like they’re stacking extra attacks onto it. It’s a cantrip and not the attack action. That would be over the top.