What are your thoughts on this? I want to make a variant Human Cleric with Magic Initiate Cleric feat. Would this piss off you as a DM? I think the idea that a human had an innate healing ability prior to adventuring is a great back story. Essentially you get 3, 1st level spell slots and 5 cantrips at 1st level...less impressive past higher levels but I like the idea...
My friend wanted me to do this and the DM thought the idea was fine. I took human variant and a different background for personal reasons though. Dependent on the DM I guess.
I think it definitely can have useful backstory development implications -- it's what drew you to become a cleric, maybe even illustrative of a divine connection. Not everyone who works at a temple has magic/becomes a cleric, so it makes sense that those who show a predilection for it would have those talents honed. My campaign did something similar, though we treated it more as 'if someone manifests a magic talent (eg, has a cantrip) then they get additional clerical training in addition to religious/seminary training.' And having those additional cantrips is really useful -- it allows you to have more of the flavor ones.
Sure, but isn't that kind of waste? You're already a Cleric. I mean, Rangers and Druids also cast from Wisdom. You might as well take from either of their lists since you already have access to your own. So if anything, you're limiting yourself rather than stretching the rules, which most DMs have no problem with.
Are you asking current DMs for their opinion? I'm a little confused here.
Sure, but isn't that kind of waste? You're already a Cleric. I mean, Rangers and Druids also cast from Wisdom. You might as well take from either of their lists since you already have access to your own. So if anything, you're limiting yourself rather than stretching the rules, which most DMs have no problem with.
Are you asking current DMs for their opinion? I'm a little confused here.
I think I understand what you mean by limiting but I think enhanced is better word since I gained 25% more known spells. 12 instead of 9. Making my Cleric spells more versatile. I am actually trying to make a super healer, so an extra cure light wounds is key. I was asking if DM's would find this annoying or ok? You mention limited. He gained an extra first level spell slot (essentially), and has 5 cantrips instead of 3. So he can cast cure light wounds 3 times instead of twice, at first level. Being versatile, is excellent with Variant human and yes making a Barbarian with Magic initiate Druid is cool but I liked the backstory and boosting healing capability.
The Magic Initiate doesn't necessarily mean they are innate. It could represent extra training/study/holy favour/patron gifts/etc. Most characters get this by Level 4.
Choosing Cleric could mean you have gained this as a boon from a god or similar divine being. If already a Cleric then this is an extra bit of power - the god is truly with you,
Choosing Warlock could mean you did a favour for some entity and got this as a reward. If already a Warlock then perhaps this is just an extra they gave you.
Choosing Wizard could mean you've dabbled in a bit of wizardry and just starting down the path. Or if you're aleady a Wizard this is some extra studying you did.
And so on.
If you're starting with the feats then it could represent your backstory.
Of course nothing (except maybe the DM) is stopping you from just having it be natural talent / innate power regardless of choice. My Fire-Themed Sorc had Magic Initiate Druid to get Produce Flame cantrip since it was theme-fitting and not on the sorc's lists and chose Cure Woulds to sort of be like soothing warmth and also cauterising wounds.
And I disagree with Song_of_Blues about it being a waste: it's a free once-per-day spell you don't have to prepare (or do prepare and just save a spell slot for the first casting - works great for the spells like Bane or Bless) and two extra cantrips that can be very useful especially if you're going mostly the spellcaster route.
Magic Initiate is my favourite feat. So many options for enhancing the character, rounding out a theme, adding to backstory/RP elements, and adding considerable utility.
@Cyb3rM1nd, no, I didn't mean a waste of a feat, but a waste in terms of being redundant since this character's main class is already Cleric. Maybe it's just me, but I've generally felt that the point of taking that feat was to get a mini-dip into a different class to get access to their spells. Thorn Whip, Faerie Fire, and Goodberry - this last one is especially useful with maximized healing - are all excellent additions to a Cleric's toolkit. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. If being Super Cleric is what's more in line with your backstory, by all means, take Magic Initaite: Cleric.
What are your thoughts on this? I want to make a variant Human Cleric with Magic Initiate Cleric feat. Would this piss off you as a DM? I think the idea that a human had an innate healing ability prior to adventuring is a great back story. Essentially you get 3, 1st level spell slots and 5 cantrips at 1st level...less impressive past higher levels but I like the idea...
There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, if you feel it works for your character. Two extra cantrips can certainly come in handy, especially now that Clerics have damage cantrips targeting three different saving throws. And if you take a commonly-used 1st-level spell, it'll open a slot in your prepared selection each day for one that's more situational.
What are your thoughts on this? I want to make a variant Human Cleric with Magic Initiate Cleric feat. Would this piss off you as a DM? I think the idea that a human had an innate healing ability prior to adventuring is a great back story. Essentially you get 3, 1st level spell slots and 5 cantrips at 1st level...less impressive past higher levels but I like the idea...
I'm going to assume you do already understand this, but I'm going to point it out anyway for anyone else reading: Magic Initiate does not grant you a spell slot.
You have two first level spell slots as a level 1 Cleric. These slots can be used on any of your known 1st level spells.
Magic Initiate grants you a once per long rest casting of only the spell learned from this feat. That's still a boon, but not the same thing as a full spell slot.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Its a benefit, even if use the MI cure as your only heal and use your spell slots to either prevent damage in the first place or kill all who oppose you.
If its about the healing factor alone , and your DM allows you to eat 10 meals in a minute without being violently sick then the cheese (good) berry combination will give you 10 hitpoints of healing, but only one per round requiring an action each. Worse, they last a day, so if you create them at night before bed time you can eat them a little after lunch, and summon more stocking 20 hitpoints of healing in the first day of traumatic injury you suffer. (this has been commented on by other posts above)
If the devout priest who keeps up on his studies tickles your fancy then play your character that way and enjoy it :)
An advantage to taking your own class is that the first level spell that you choose is always prepared, so it is essentially an extra domain spell of your choice.
If the spell is something like goodberry where casting it once a day is enough (but you still will cast it more days than not) then it might be worth taking another class. If you choose a spell that you want to be able to cast over and over again, then taking your own class might be fine. You’ll always have your spell prepared and you can cast it as long as you have slots. But I still wouldn’t build a super-healer by taking Cure Wounds as your magic initiate spell since it is already on the life domain list.
Cure wounds only cast at first level will be limiting at later levels....so I don't like this as a magic initiate feet. It may make sense for your character but is certainly not a huge advantage....
Cure wounds only cast at first level will be limiting at later levels....so I don't like this as a magic initiate feet. It may make sense for your character but is certainly not a huge advantage....
Tell that to the cleric in a difficult fight with all their allies downed and no spell slots left...
Bringing an ally back to their feet, even with only a few hitpoints remaining, can be absolutely crucial even in a level 20 battle.
Cure wounds only cast at first level will be limiting at later levels....so I don't like this as a magic initiate feet. It may make sense for your character but is certainly not a huge advantage....
Your first level spell from Magic Initiate (cleric) will count as a cleric spell, and if you have levels in cleric then you can cast any of your cleric spells with spell slots.
Effectively, taking MI in a casting class that you already have levels in is like getting an extra always prepared/known spell and one slot to free casting of it... unless you choose a spell that is already always prepared. But, like I said in my previous post, I think it is a waste to take one of your domain spells with MI (and I assume that the super-healer that this character is designed to be will be life domain) because your domain spells are already always prepared.
Wolf, M.I. doesnt grant you a known spell, no matter how you gain spells slots as a character no spell from M.I. can be cast or recast in spell slots. Multiclassing does allow you to cross pollinate spells known. However M.I. doesnt add the spell chosen to any spell lists known by you.
M.I. is a great feat though.
Cyb3r, When fights get that bad a spell can be the difference between life or a new character. A healing potion is also a good option, but the the best by far if it keeps happening is Yoyo the paladin, capable of saving 5 characters per paladin level with lay on hands.
Wolf, M.I. doesnt grant you a known spell, no matter how you gain spells slots as a character no spell from M.I. can be cast or recast in spell slots. Multiclassing does allow you to cross pollinate spells known. However M.I. doesnt add the spell chosen to any spell lists known by you.
To clarify: if you want to cast something with spell slots and your spellcasting requires preparation then you do need to prepare the spell. The MI spell does not immediately count as prepared.
But it does add to known spells: wizards may scribe it into their spellbooks, and spontaneous casters like warlocks, bards and sorcerers can cast it using spell slots. IF, however, the spell is on your class spell list. Since Clerics know all their spells anyway this is of no benefit - it's just a free base-lavel cast once per day, which is still really nifty.
Moon, that is not entirely accurate. If the spell that you learn via M.I. is on the spell list for a class that you have levels in (and have unlocked that class' spellcasting feature), then that spell can in fact be cast with your own spell slots. A Cleric with Magic Initiate (Cleric) can cast the M.I. spell as if it were a known spell (because it is).
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
M.I. doesnt say you know the first level spell, only that you can cast it once. (without using a spell slot) It doesnt then mention it is added to spells known or can be cast again in a spell slot or increases the number of spells known, which if it did would be an example of specific over general rules.
I suspect it was because If it was added to spells known it would make it impossible for non casters to use requiring a spell slot, but this way it lives in a grey area all can benefit from.
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What are your thoughts on this? I want to make a variant Human Cleric with Magic Initiate Cleric feat. Would this piss off you as a DM? I think the idea that a human had an innate healing ability prior to adventuring is a great back story. Essentially you get 3, 1st level spell slots and 5 cantrips at 1st level...less impressive past higher levels but I like the idea...
My friend wanted me to do this and the DM thought the idea was fine. I took human variant and a different background for personal reasons though. Dependent on the DM I guess.
I think it definitely can have useful backstory development implications -- it's what drew you to become a cleric, maybe even illustrative of a divine connection. Not everyone who works at a temple has magic/becomes a cleric, so it makes sense that those who show a predilection for it would have those talents honed. My campaign did something similar, though we treated it more as 'if someone manifests a magic talent (eg, has a cantrip) then they get additional clerical training in addition to religious/seminary training.' And having those additional cantrips is really useful -- it allows you to have more of the flavor ones.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Sure, but isn't that kind of waste? You're already a Cleric. I mean, Rangers and Druids also cast from Wisdom. You might as well take from either of their lists since you already have access to your own. So if anything, you're limiting yourself rather than stretching the rules, which most DMs have no problem with.
Are you asking current DMs for their opinion? I'm a little confused here.
I think I understand what you mean by limiting but I think enhanced is better word since I gained 25% more known spells. 12 instead of 9. Making my Cleric spells more versatile. I am actually trying to make a super healer, so an extra cure light wounds is key. I was asking if DM's would find this annoying or ok? You mention limited. He gained an extra first level spell slot (essentially), and has 5 cantrips instead of 3. So he can cast cure light wounds 3 times instead of twice, at first level. Being versatile, is excellent with Variant human and yes making a Barbarian with Magic initiate Druid is cool but I liked the backstory and boosting healing capability.
The Magic Initiate doesn't necessarily mean they are innate. It could represent extra training/study/holy favour/patron gifts/etc. Most characters get this by Level 4.
Choosing Cleric could mean you have gained this as a boon from a god or similar divine being. If already a Cleric then this is an extra bit of power - the god is truly with you,
Choosing Warlock could mean you did a favour for some entity and got this as a reward. If already a Warlock then perhaps this is just an extra they gave you.
Choosing Wizard could mean you've dabbled in a bit of wizardry and just starting down the path. Or if you're aleady a Wizard this is some extra studying you did.
And so on.
If you're starting with the feats then it could represent your backstory.
Of course nothing (except maybe the DM) is stopping you from just having it be natural talent / innate power regardless of choice. My Fire-Themed Sorc had Magic Initiate Druid to get Produce Flame cantrip since it was theme-fitting and not on the sorc's lists and chose Cure Woulds to sort of be like soothing warmth and also cauterising wounds.
And I disagree with Song_of_Blues about it being a waste: it's a free once-per-day spell you don't have to prepare (or do prepare and just save a spell slot for the first casting - works great for the spells like Bane or Bless) and two extra cantrips that can be very useful especially if you're going mostly the spellcaster route.
Magic Initiate is my favourite feat. So many options for enhancing the character, rounding out a theme, adding to backstory/RP elements, and adding considerable utility.
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@Cyb3rM1nd, no, I didn't mean a waste of a feat, but a waste in terms of being redundant since this character's main class is already Cleric. Maybe it's just me, but I've generally felt that the point of taking that feat was to get a mini-dip into a different class to get access to their spells. Thorn Whip, Faerie Fire, and Goodberry - this last one is especially useful with maximized healing - are all excellent additions to a Cleric's toolkit. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. If being Super Cleric is what's more in line with your backstory, by all means, take Magic Initaite: Cleric.
I feel this way to a degree as well. Why not go in a completely different direction? Either choice could be a lot of fun.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, if you feel it works for your character. Two extra cantrips can certainly come in handy, especially now that Clerics have damage cantrips targeting three different saving throws. And if you take a commonly-used 1st-level spell, it'll open a slot in your prepared selection each day for one that's more situational.
I'm going to assume you do already understand this, but I'm going to point it out anyway for anyone else reading: Magic Initiate does not grant you a spell slot.
You have two first level spell slots as a level 1 Cleric. These slots can be used on any of your known 1st level spells.
Magic Initiate grants you a once per long rest casting of only the spell learned from this feat. That's still a boon, but not the same thing as a full spell slot.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Yup...Just meant it is like having 3 cure light wounds for the price of 2...
Its a benefit, even if use the MI cure as your only heal and use your spell slots to either prevent damage in the first place or kill all who oppose you.
If its about the healing factor alone , and your DM allows you to eat 10 meals in a minute without being violently sick then the cheese (good) berry combination will give you 10 hitpoints of healing, but only one per round requiring an action each. Worse, they last a day, so if you create them at night before bed time you can eat them a little after lunch, and summon more stocking 20 hitpoints of healing in the first day of traumatic injury you suffer. (this has been commented on by other posts above)
If the devout priest who keeps up on his studies tickles your fancy then play your character that way and enjoy it :)
An advantage to taking your own class is that the first level spell that you choose is always prepared, so it is essentially an extra domain spell of your choice.
If the spell is something like goodberry where casting it once a day is enough (but you still will cast it more days than not) then it might be worth taking another class. If you choose a spell that you want to be able to cast over and over again, then taking your own class might be fine. You’ll always have your spell prepared and you can cast it as long as you have slots. But I still wouldn’t build a super-healer by taking Cure Wounds as your magic initiate spell since it is already on the life domain list.
Cure wounds only cast at first level will be limiting at later levels....so I don't like this as a magic initiate feet. It may make sense for your character but is certainly not a huge advantage....
Tell that to the cleric in a difficult fight with all their allies downed and no spell slots left...
Bringing an ally back to their feet, even with only a few hitpoints remaining, can be absolutely crucial even in a level 20 battle.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Your first level spell from Magic Initiate (cleric) will count as a cleric spell, and if you have levels in cleric then you can cast any of your cleric spells with spell slots.
Effectively, taking MI in a casting class that you already have levels in is like getting an extra always prepared/known spell and one
slot tofree casting of it... unless you choose a spell that is already always prepared. But, like I said in my previous post, I think it is a waste to take one of your domain spells with MI (and I assume that the super-healer that this character is designed to be will be life domain) because your domain spells are already always prepared.Wolf, M.I. doesnt grant you a known spell, no matter how you gain spells slots as a character no spell from M.I. can be cast or recast in spell slots. Multiclassing does allow you to cross pollinate spells known. However M.I. doesnt add the spell chosen to any spell lists known by you.
M.I. is a great feat though.
Cyb3r, When fights get that bad a spell can be the difference between life or a new character. A healing potion is also a good option, but the the best by far if it keeps happening is Yoyo the paladin, capable of saving 5 characters per paladin level with lay on hands.
To clarify: if you want to cast something with spell slots and your spellcasting requires preparation then you do need to prepare the spell. The MI spell does not immediately count as prepared.
But it does add to known spells: wizards may scribe it into their spellbooks, and spontaneous casters like warlocks, bards and sorcerers can cast it using spell slots. IF, however, the spell is on your class spell list. Since Clerics know all their spells anyway this is of no benefit - it's just a free base-lavel cast once per day, which is still really nifty.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Moon, that is not entirely accurate. If the spell that you learn via M.I. is on the spell list for a class that you have levels in (and have unlocked that class' spellcasting feature), then that spell can in fact be cast with your own spell slots. A Cleric with Magic Initiate (Cleric) can cast the M.I. spell as if it were a known spell (because it is).
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
M.I. doesnt say you know the first level spell, only that you can cast it once. (without using a spell slot) It doesnt then mention it is added to spells known or can be cast again in a spell slot or increases the number of spells known, which if it did would be an example of specific over general rules.
I suspect it was because If it was added to spells known it would make it impossible for non casters to use requiring a spell slot, but this way it lives in a grey area all can benefit from.