A friend and I were discussing the Wildfire Spirit today and there were a few stand out "Huh, I don't know..." and "That's a good question" moments. I'm curious what folks here think:
Does the druid communicate with the spirit verbally? Telepathically?
The description doesn't specify, where other skills do (find familiar (telepathic), summon animals (verbal), Sahuagin control sharks (telepathic)), it only states that the spirit "obeys your commands".
If verbal, can a silenced Druid, then, not issue commands to its Wildfire Spirit? (ie. spirit stands there taking the doge action)
Does the Wildfire Spirit produce light? If so, how far?
Other abilities such as Produce Flame specify that they produce light and radius.
Wildfire Spirit is a fire elemental, it would be weird for it not to produce light.
The description and stat block make no mention of it producing light
Does a creature attempting to grab onto the Wildfire Spirit get burned? (not necessarily damage, but like... recoiling from having touched something hot)
Fire elementals specifically deal damage to creatures that touch/are touched.
The wildfire spirit is technically a small elemental
I know these aren't anything ground breaking but they were questions that didn't have definitive answers. It could simply be left in the realm of "DM ruling" and that would make sense. I'm more curious to know what others think.
I'm also kind of curious to know of other questions surrounding the Wildfire Druid folks may have thought of that, similarly, don't necessarily have an answer in RAW because I'm sure there are others.
Nothing does anything that affects the game if its rules haven't specified. Telepathy is a special rule; if a feature does not grant it, then you don't have it and have to rely on speech. Producing light and damage on touch, likewise, are not mentioned in the spirit's entry and thus are not features of the spirit. Whether the spirit is cool or hot to the touch is purely flavour and can be up to the player. Any of these features could be implemented with an agreeable DM, but they are not RAW.
Yeah, after comparing the original PHB Beastmaster Ranger and the TCoE version it does seem that they chose to exclude the wording that specifies "verbal command", opting instead for simply "command". As the Wildfire Spirit is worded the same way I would agree with the fact that RAW/RAI it is meant to be a verbal command.
Temperature for flavour seems fine to me, it was one of those "I wonder if..." comments when my friend and I were talking. We both agreed it shouldn't deal damage, since that would be specifically stated if it was intended.
I'm a little disappointed they didn't include anything about it giving off light what with the fact that it's a fire elemental especially when they gave the Stars druid light emittance when using Starry Form. Feels like an oversight, to me. But again, I'm not disagreeing... simply lamenting the exclusion.
UA Version was better IMO ... I mean, Wildfire without Fire Bolt ? Seriously? It should have all fire spells, no question asked. It also should be able to produce light MAKES SENSE ! And it should to damage if touched, ITS FIRE !
I was so hyped about the Wildfire UA version and couldn't wait for our new Campaign to begin, but then I saw the nerfs and I was just: Meeh ... And it's not about powerplay, but I feel like having a Druid that can transform into a car, but not a Lion (bad example).
What's done, it's done, so I'm just venting off here, but if I ever decide to play that subclass, I have an UA version saved on my char list that I will use.
Why does fire bolt matter? Produce flame is an acceptable substitute which the druid already has on its list. I would much rather have round-after-round fiery teleportation and no fire bolt than limited-use fiery teleportation and fire bolt.
The main reason Firebolt > Produce Flame is that you cannot cast Produce Flame from your Wildfire Spirit upon reaching level 6 since it is Range: Self. Since the Wildfire Druid's fire spells gain the benefit of +1d8 while it's out at this point the only Cantrip-based options are Create Bonfire - requires Concentration and is a Dex save - or Produce Flame - Range: Self and can only be thrown 30ft - compared to Firebolt's higher damage die, significantly longer range, and ability to originate from the Wildfire Spirit. This makes Firebolt better in every regard.
Produce Flame on its own is a good spell. Specifically for the Wildfire Druid, who looks to fill more of a damage-oriented role, it's quite mediocre.
The main reason Firebolt > Produce Flame is that you cannot cast Produce Flame from your Wildfire Spirit upon reaching level 6 since it is Range: Self. Since the Wildfire Druid's fire spells gain the benefit of +1d8 while it's out at this point the only Cantrip-based options are Create Bonfire - requires Concentration and is a Dex save - or Produce Flame - Range: Self and can only be thrown 30ft - compared to Firebolt's higher damage die, significantly longer range, and ability to originate from the Wildfire Spirit. This makes Firebolt better in every regard.
Produce Flame on its own is a good spell. Specifically for the Wildfire Druid, who looks to fill more of a damage-oriented role, it's quite mediocre.
the part thats been grinding me the most about produce flame is just the range 30 feet. 60 would of been fine, but 30 is a joke. Even more aggravating when you factor in the damage drop and range self problems as well like you said
The other issue I have with the lack of firebolt is that most druid circles get a 3rd cantrip at 2nd level, but the wildfire does not. Instead it gets extra 1st level circle spells. Wildfire druids are caster druids, and the lack of a 3rd cantrip is limiting. The class should have given a cantrip at 2nd. Preferable a choice of firebolt (wis as casting stat), produce flame, bonfire, or control flames.
The other issue I have with the lack of firebolt is that most druid circles get a 3rd cantrip at 2nd level, but the wildfire does not. Instead it gets extra 1st level circle spells. Wildfire druids are caster druids, and the lack of a 3rd cantrip is limiting. The class should have given a cantrip at 2nd. Preferable a choice of firebolt (wis as casting stat), produce flame, bonfire, or control flames.
Less than half get another cantrip at 2nd level. Land, Spores, and Stars are the only ones to get cantrips. And of those two of them have Cantrips chosen for you and one of those two is a non-combat cantrip. And while Burning hands is kind of meh... but useful enough at low level. Cure wounds on the other hand is a valuable spell to have for caster druids.
So this idea that Widlfire should have gotten it because a few other druid circles got them doesn't really fit. Particularly when their usage may be only situationally beneficial when they are gotten.
And then of course The choices are all ones that can be used to attack with. Even if Control Flames doesn't work without fire already being present or actually really damage anybody on it's own and Create Bonfire is kind of lackluster but at least it's got a damage component I suppose. And if any of the three that aren't firebolt everybody would still complain that they should have gotten firebolt instead, Either because it's damage is better or because it's the one Druids don't get naturally so that somehow makes it better.
And everybody forgets that Light is a thematic Cantrip to fire that is needed by a lot of characters and has good Utility that they could have just as easily have given if they did give it a cantrip.
The only issue I have with the lack of Firebolt is that there are only two Fire-based cantrips, to take advantage of the damage increase from Enhanced Bond, available to the Wildfire Druid - Produce Flame and Create Bonfire - and only one of them, Create Bonfire, can be cast from the Wildfire Spirit once that feature comes online.
Produce Flame on its own is fine, it just feels "less good" to me since the Range:Self means that you cannot take advantage of both features with the same spell as we could have with Firebolt. It's not the end of the world, just something I noticed and thought "huh, that's a shame".
The only issue I have with the lack of Firebolt is that there are only two Fire-based cantrips, to take advantage of the damage increase from Enhanced Bond, available to the Wildfire Druid - Produce Flame and Create Bonfire - and only one of them, Create Bonfire, can be cast from the Wildfire Spirit once that feature comes online.
Produce Flame on its own is fine, it just feels "less good" to me since the Range:Self means that you cannot take advantage of both features with the same spell as we could have with Firebolt. It's not the end of the world, just something I noticed and thought "huh, that's a shame".
The Wildfire Spirit is not exactly tanky. Being able to cast through it is only a boon if it can survive onslaughts against it. So even without Cantrips it's of limited value. Being able to do a cantrip would just make it more of a target so it's advantage to cast them through it is a bit over stated. Something like Produce Flame is still valuable because your splitting up the damage sources more. Even if it's feeling forced. Giving them more reason to split their attention and not just focus on and target the wildfire spirit. You also actually do more damage if you have both you and the Wildfire spirit are both making some kind of attacks. Even if the attack from the wildfire spirit doesn't always seem that big. Which means your often more suited to be cantrip casting with your Druid and then attacking with the wildfire spirit as well.
it's not like a typical familiar that can't really do much except maybe the help action in combat or to cast spells through them. It actually has a more robust action economy of it's own that should be taken advantage of.
The Truth is that Firebolt, or Create Bonfire or Produce flame cast through the spirit wouldn't be taking full advantage of what you've got on the table. So cast from your Druid. Which can have two of those three cantrips anyway. And none of these spells have to come from the Wildfire spirit to get the extra damage. They just have to be cast while it is active. The casting through it ability is a seperate part of the same feature that you gain at 6th level. So if you want the D8. Cast things like produce flame or Create bonfire and it still works. Split up their attention because your hitting them from two sources where one is easier to potentially catch but sturdier and the other is flimsier but can do things like teleport. It's going to make both of you much harder to deal with and decide the proper priorities instead of just making the Wildfire spirit the obvious target until it's dead.
The only issue I have with the lack of Firebolt is that there are only two Fire-based cantrips, to take advantage of the damage increase from Enhanced Bond, available to the Wildfire Druid - Produce Flame and Create Bonfire - and only one of them, Create Bonfire, can be cast from the Wildfire Spirit once that feature comes online.
Produce Flame on its own is fine, it just feels "less good" to me since the Range:Self means that you cannot take advantage of both features with the same spell as we could have with Firebolt. It's not the end of the world, just something I noticed and thought "huh, that's a shame".
The Wildfire Spirit is not exactly tanky. Being able to cast through it is only a boon if it can survive onslaughts against it. So even without Cantrips it's of limited value. Being able to do a cantrip would just make it more of a target so it's advantage to cast them through it is a bit over stated. Something like Produce Flame is still valuable because your splitting up the damage sources more. Even if it's feeling forced. Giving them more reason to split their attention and not just focus on and target the wildfire spirit. You also actually do more damage if you have both you and the Wildfire spirit are both making some kind of attacks. Even if the attack from the wildfire spirit doesn't always seem that big. Which means your often more suited to be cantrip casting with your Druid and then attacking with the wildfire spirit as well.
it's not like a typical familiar that can't really do much except maybe the help action in combat or to cast spells through them. It actually has a more robust action economy of it's own that should be taken advantage of.
The Truth is that Firebolt, or Create Bonfire or Produce flame cast through the spirit wouldn't be taking full advantage of what you've got on the table. So cast from your Druid. Which can have two of those three cantrips anyway. And none of these spells have to come from the Wildfire spirit to get the extra damage. They just have to be cast while it is active. The casting through it ability is a seperate part of the same feature that you gain at 6th level. So if you want the D8. Cast things like produce flame or Create bonfire and it still works. Split up their attention because your hitting them from two sources where one is easier to potentially catch but sturdier and the other is flimsier but can do things like teleport. It's going to make both of you much harder to deal with and decide the proper priorities instead of just making the Wildfire spirit the obvious target until it's dead.
I hadn't actually considered that. You make a very compelling point, I must say. Thanks!
Kololds can pick up Firebolt as of MoM. That may solve some of this frustration. What I want to know is if my Kolold casts Enlarge on his Wildfire spirit can he then ride it at 3rd lvl?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
A friend and I were discussing the Wildfire Spirit today and there were a few stand out "Huh, I don't know..." and "That's a good question" moments. I'm curious what folks here think:
I know these aren't anything ground breaking but they were questions that didn't have definitive answers. It could simply be left in the realm of "DM ruling" and that would make sense. I'm more curious to know what others think.
I'm also kind of curious to know of other questions surrounding the Wildfire Druid folks may have thought of that, similarly, don't necessarily have an answer in RAW because I'm sure there are others.
1) Isn't specified, so up to GM.
2) No
3) No
Nothing does anything that affects the game if its rules haven't specified. Telepathy is a special rule; if a feature does not grant it, then you don't have it and have to rely on speech. Producing light and damage on touch, likewise, are not mentioned in the spirit's entry and thus are not features of the spirit. Whether the spirit is cool or hot to the touch is purely flavour and can be up to the player. Any of these features could be implemented with an agreeable DM, but they are not RAW.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Yeah, after comparing the original PHB Beastmaster Ranger and the TCoE version it does seem that they chose to exclude the wording that specifies "verbal command", opting instead for simply "command". As the Wildfire Spirit is worded the same way I would agree with the fact that RAW/RAI it is meant to be a verbal command.
Temperature for flavour seems fine to me, it was one of those "I wonder if..." comments when my friend and I were talking. We both agreed it shouldn't deal damage, since that would be specifically stated if it was intended.
I'm a little disappointed they didn't include anything about it giving off light what with the fact that it's a fire elemental especially when they gave the Stars druid light emittance when using Starry Form. Feels like an oversight, to me. But again, I'm not disagreeing... simply lamenting the exclusion.
UA Version was better IMO ... I mean, Wildfire without Fire Bolt ? Seriously? It should have all fire spells, no question asked. It also should be able to produce light MAKES SENSE ! And it should to damage if touched, ITS FIRE !
I was so hyped about the Wildfire UA version and couldn't wait for our new Campaign to begin, but then I saw the nerfs and I was just: Meeh ... And it's not about powerplay, but I feel like having a Druid that can transform into a car, but not a Lion (bad example).
What's done, it's done, so I'm just venting off here, but if I ever decide to play that subclass, I have an UA version saved on my char list that I will use.
Why does fire bolt matter? Produce flame is an acceptable substitute which the druid already has on its list. I would much rather have round-after-round fiery teleportation and no fire bolt than limited-use fiery teleportation and fire bolt.
The main reason Firebolt > Produce Flame is that you cannot cast Produce Flame from your Wildfire Spirit upon reaching level 6 since it is Range: Self. Since the Wildfire Druid's fire spells gain the benefit of +1d8 while it's out at this point the only Cantrip-based options are Create Bonfire - requires Concentration and is a Dex save - or Produce Flame - Range: Self and can only be thrown 30ft - compared to Firebolt's higher damage die, significantly longer range, and ability to originate from the Wildfire Spirit. This makes Firebolt better in every regard.
Produce Flame on its own is a good spell. Specifically for the Wildfire Druid, who looks to fill more of a damage-oriented role, it's quite mediocre.
Do an arcana cleric dip (1 level) and you can pick up fire bolt that's wisdom based (and ray of frost as well for the fire & ice theme).
Only works if your DM allows the Multiclassing optional rule.
the part thats been grinding me the most about produce flame is just the range 30 feet. 60 would of been fine, but 30 is a joke. Even more aggravating when you factor in the damage drop and range self problems as well like you said
I think most DM's would allow you to consider it a range of 30 feet instead of self if you fire it off immediately.
Aye, homebrew can make most things better. But per RAW it's not possible because of Range:Self.
I believe the grey areas are ash. ;-)
Haha, that pun burns deep... like the fires of a thousand forests. :P
The other issue I have with the lack of firebolt is that most druid circles get a 3rd cantrip at 2nd level, but the wildfire does not. Instead it gets extra 1st level circle spells.
Wildfire druids are caster druids, and the lack of a 3rd cantrip is limiting. The class should have given a cantrip at 2nd. Preferable a choice of firebolt (wis as casting stat), produce flame, bonfire, or control flames.
Less than half get another cantrip at 2nd level. Land, Spores, and Stars are the only ones to get cantrips. And of those two of them have Cantrips chosen for you and one of those two is a non-combat cantrip. And while Burning hands is kind of meh... but useful enough at low level. Cure wounds on the other hand is a valuable spell to have for caster druids.
So this idea that Widlfire should have gotten it because a few other druid circles got them doesn't really fit. Particularly when their usage may be only situationally beneficial when they are gotten.
And then of course The choices are all ones that can be used to attack with. Even if Control Flames doesn't work without fire already being present or actually really damage anybody on it's own and Create Bonfire is kind of lackluster but at least it's got a damage component I suppose. And if any of the three that aren't firebolt everybody would still complain that they should have gotten firebolt instead, Either because it's damage is better or because it's the one Druids don't get naturally so that somehow makes it better.
And everybody forgets that Light is a thematic Cantrip to fire that is needed by a lot of characters and has good Utility that they could have just as easily have given if they did give it a cantrip.
The only issue I have with the lack of Firebolt is that there are only two Fire-based cantrips, to take advantage of the damage increase from Enhanced Bond, available to the Wildfire Druid - Produce Flame and Create Bonfire - and only one of them, Create Bonfire, can be cast from the Wildfire Spirit once that feature comes online.
Produce Flame on its own is fine, it just feels "less good" to me since the Range:Self means that you cannot take advantage of both features with the same spell as we could have with Firebolt. It's not the end of the world, just something I noticed and thought "huh, that's a shame".
The Wildfire Spirit is not exactly tanky. Being able to cast through it is only a boon if it can survive onslaughts against it. So even without Cantrips it's of limited value. Being able to do a cantrip would just make it more of a target so it's advantage to cast them through it is a bit over stated. Something like Produce Flame is still valuable because your splitting up the damage sources more. Even if it's feeling forced. Giving them more reason to split their attention and not just focus on and target the wildfire spirit. You also actually do more damage if you have both you and the Wildfire spirit are both making some kind of attacks. Even if the attack from the wildfire spirit doesn't always seem that big. Which means your often more suited to be cantrip casting with your Druid and then attacking with the wildfire spirit as well.
it's not like a typical familiar that can't really do much except maybe the help action in combat or to cast spells through them. It actually has a more robust action economy of it's own that should be taken advantage of.
The Truth is that Firebolt, or Create Bonfire or Produce flame cast through the spirit wouldn't be taking full advantage of what you've got on the table. So cast from your Druid. Which can have two of those three cantrips anyway. And none of these spells have to come from the Wildfire spirit to get the extra damage. They just have to be cast while it is active. The casting through it ability is a seperate part of the same feature that you gain at 6th level. So if you want the D8. Cast things like produce flame or Create bonfire and it still works. Split up their attention because your hitting them from two sources where one is easier to potentially catch but sturdier and the other is flimsier but can do things like teleport. It's going to make both of you much harder to deal with and decide the proper priorities instead of just making the Wildfire spirit the obvious target until it's dead.
I hadn't actually considered that. You make a very compelling point, I must say. Thanks!
Kololds can pick up Firebolt as of MoM. That may solve some of this frustration. What I want to know is if my Kolold casts Enlarge on his Wildfire spirit can he then ride it at 3rd lvl?