can not do studded leather... people miss the point of balance in this game.
Uh, what? There is both sage advice saying studded leather doesn't count as metal armor and that "no metal armor" is purely fluff, not balance, this edition.
Please enlighten us, what point about balance are we and the game designers interpretating incorrectly?
High AC druids break nothing. They fall into the same category as backline clerics like light and arcana who can wear breastplates so I find it laughable that you'd consider studded leather game breaking.
can not do studded leather... people miss the point of balance in this game.
Uh, what? There is both sage advice saying studded leather doesn't count as metal armor and that "no metal armor" is purely fluff, not balance, this edition.
Please enlighten us, what point about balance are we and the game designers interpretating incorrectly?
High AC druids break nothing. They fall into the same category as backline clerics like light and arcana who can wear breastplates so I find it laughable that you'd consider studded leather game breaking.
Right you are sir. "Studded leather game breaking" said no one ever lol
can not do studded leather... people miss the point of balance in this game.
Uh, what? There is both sage advice saying studded leather doesn't count as metal armor and that "no metal armor" is purely fluff, not balance, this edition.
Please enlighten us, what point about balance are we and the game designers interpretating incorrectly?
High AC druids break nothing. They fall into the same category as backline clerics like light and arcana who can wear breastplates so I find it laughable that you'd consider studded leather game breaking.
Right you are sir. "Studded leather game breaking" said no one ever lol
The no metal armor thing is not balance related at all, it's flavor. Otherwise, they would not allow medium armor either. Throwing scale armor on your druid isn't going to break anything.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
In the Basic Starter Set, the Druid is warning studied leather. and if you not a circle of the moon Druid a higher AC is going to be useful with all the touch spells you have. I love to see some natural armor options. I do not think it brake the game any AC medications with Armore will not translate to a beast form.
The easy way to deal with this is to say I am not a druid, I am a shaman. That "choice" of no metal armor does not apply to me.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If they want to die, more power to them. They should mind their own business though.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There are a ton of ways around the "no metal" armor that make for good side quests (different hides, wood etc.). You could have vines or twigs tightly woven for chain mail (think Kevlar style) or just different types of wood (breast plate or splint) depending on the wood's hardness. Of course scale mail could be literal scale, chitin (exoskeleton) could be used for half plate/ plate.
You do not need homebrew to alter the materials of an item. No one would bat an eye if a fighter wanted his breastplate made out of Bronze so that he could look like a Spartan, or if he wanted his plate armor to make him look like a samurai (depending on the time period, japanese armor used more wood, leather, silk and laquer instead of steel, though it often is used in later pieces). If you can make your armor out of a less durable metal like bronze but maintain the effectiveness of steel, you most certainly can make it out of resilient materials like dense wood (like ebony, oak or ironwood) or shells.
I can understand requiring a player character to seek out an artisan that works in those materials, but it is a non-issue for whether such items would exist. Much like the real world, people generally switch to the material that is most effective and easiestto work with, but that does not mean that there arent cultures or time periods where armor was made of an alternate material.
Shells, scales, woods, leather and ceramics can all make for suitable replacements for metal, especially when used in conjunction with each other. This is without even going to the fantasy elements of the creatures you are getting the materials from (which most definitely could include animals with significantly more durable shells or scales etc).
Hell, i have personally made stab/slash proof armor out of cloth, paper and laquer that was about 3/8ths of an inch thick (its been a while, might have been closer to half inch). I even got it to the point of stopping small caliber firearms (rifle ammo laughed at it, sure, but it worked wonderfully for the small stuff at a moderate distance of around 20ft). It wasnt a full set of armor, as i am in no way an armorer (and not nearly crazy/stupid enough to endanger myself or others with a worn prototype), but it was a good plate of the stuff.
Obviously homebrewed non-metal armor works. Pretty sure the discussion was more focused on official rules.
there is non-homebrewed non-metal medium armor as well. Dragonscale armor comes to mind for example; it was even handed out in adventurer's league once upon a time.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
orks. Pretty sure the discussion was more focused on official rules.
there is non-homebrewed non-metal medium armor as well. Dragonscale armor comes to mind for example; it was even handed out in adventurer's league once upon a time.
there's numerous non-metal magical armors. And most of the magical armors don't note what they're made out so they could be made out of anything - so if you go by that, most magical armors could be non-metal. point was that there's several easily arguable non-magical, non-metal medium and heavy armors.
orks. Pretty sure the discussion was more focused on official rules.
there is non-homebrewed non-metal medium armor as well. Dragonscale armor comes to mind for example; it was even handed out in adventurer's league once upon a time.
there's numerous non-metal magical armors. And most of the magical armors don't note what they're made out so they could be made out of anything - so if you go by that, most magical armors could be non-metal. point was that there's several easily arguable non-magical, non-metal medium and heavy armors.
There aren't several options listed in the books for medium or heavy non-metal armor. The dragon scale given out was literally, scale mail made out of dragon scales...no special properties other than it was non metallic.
There are only two types of medium armor that do not explicity state that they are made out of metal: Hide (which sucks) and spiked which I had previously read as requiring specific proficiency and was mistaken. it says it's spikes are /usually/ made of metal...which means not always made of metal. So, a druid looking for an AC workaround /could/ find some dwarven spiked armor with wooden spikes and effectively equipped with scale armor.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There aren't several options listed in the books for medium or heavy non-metal armor. The dragon scale given out was literally, scale mail made out of dragon scales...no special properties other than it was non metallic.
There are only two types of medium armor that do not explicity state that they are made out of metal: Hide (which sucks) and spiked which I had previously read as requiring specific proficiency and was mistaken. it says it's spikes are /usually/ made of metal...which means not always made of metal. So, a druid looking for an AC workaround /could/ find some dwarven spiked armor with wooden spikes and effectively equipped with scale armor.
off the top of my head, here's a couple that say they're made out of something other than metal.
i'd very much guess this is not made out of metal either considering the name and that everything else in the book that has the word 'obsidian' in it is made out of obsidian.
There aren't several options listed in the books for medium or heavy non-metal armor. The dragon scale given out was literally, scale mail made out of dragon scales...no special properties other than it was non metallic.
There are only two types of medium armor that do not explicity state that they are made out of metal: Hide (which sucks) and spiked which I had previously read as requiring specific proficiency and was mistaken. it says it's spikes are /usually/ made of metal...which means not always made of metal. So, a druid looking for an AC workaround /could/ find some dwarven spiked armor with wooden spikes and effectively equipped with scale armor.
off the top of my head, here's a couple that say they're made out of something other than metal.
i'd very much guess this is not made out of metal either considering the name and that everything else in the book that has the word 'obsidian' in it is made out of obsidian.
These are all magical. the problem for druids is they are given proficiency with medium armor. When you look at the equipment section, the only medium armor that is not /explicity/ described as being made out of metal is hide...which is objectively worse than studded leather (which they can also wear). So, your druid can't just take his gold into an armor shop and buy the best armor for which he's proficient...like literally every other single class in the game can.
Why? Flavor text. Crawford has stated that medium armor on druids is not a mistake, and it's not a balance issue. They CHOOSE to not wear it. Now, I have made the choice, as a player to not wear my best armor for RP reasons. That however, is a choice *I* made, not some arbitrary stupidity carried forward from old editions for the sake of "flavor" that I do not want, nor agree with. if they want to put this kind of stupid fluff in, they also should provide options for the players so they don't have to risk a DM arbitrarily banning them from using class features because of "flavor"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I forget where I saw it, but it’s an alchemy recipe from a source book created by Elves! It’s used to create non metallic armors.
I could see the argument of it being used for leaves for light armors, vines for flexible armors, and barks for heavier armor
to the person asking about glassteal, our DM allowed our lore bard to “discover” it as one of his lvl 18 secrets. His character had become a somewhat “infamous” armor crafter in his “off time” using skill expertise to create some truly “epic” armors for the group (and a few rich patron lords with deep pockets) it made for some very interesting side quests and adventures (Dont even ask about the Blood vine chain mail made for the Druid ... it was SICK, or worse yet the phase spider silk “infused” displacer hide leather for the rogue)
it’s all about working with your DM to flush out the details !!!!
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Fear is the mind killer!
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There are also certain types of trees that aren't ironwood trees that get pretty darn close to metal hardness.
Uh, what? There is both sage advice saying studded leather doesn't count as metal armor and that "no metal armor" is purely fluff, not balance, this edition.
Please enlighten us, what point about balance are we and the game designers interpretating incorrectly?
High AC druids break nothing. They fall into the same category as backline clerics like light and arcana who can wear breastplates so I find it laughable that you'd consider studded leather game breaking.
Right you are sir. "Studded leather game breaking" said no one ever lol
^ LancerSyn did
The no metal armor thing is not balance related at all, it's flavor. Otherwise, they would not allow medium armor either. Throwing scale armor on your druid isn't going to break anything.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
In the Basic Starter Set, the Druid is warning studied leather. and if you not a circle of the moon Druid a higher AC is going to be useful with all the touch spells you have. I love to see some natural armor options. I do not think it brake the game any AC medications with Armore will not translate to a beast form.
The easy way to deal with this is to say I am not a druid, I am a shaman. That "choice" of no metal armor does not apply to me.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
And the Druids still come after you screaming “Heretic!”
If they want to die, more power to them. They should mind their own business though.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
"None of you seem to understand. I'm not trapped in this forest with you... you're trapped here with me!"
There are a ton of ways around the "no metal" armor that make for good side quests (different hides, wood etc.). You could have vines or twigs tightly woven for chain mail (think Kevlar style) or just different types of wood (breast plate or splint) depending on the wood's hardness. Of course scale mail could be literal scale, chitin (exoskeleton) could be used for half plate/ plate.
Here's some nonmetallic armor ideas
https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/316614
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
Obviously homebrewed non-metal armor works. Pretty sure the discussion was more focused on official rules.
You do not need homebrew to alter the materials of an item. No one would bat an eye if a fighter wanted his breastplate made out of Bronze so that he could look like a Spartan, or if he wanted his plate armor to make him look like a samurai (depending on the time period, japanese armor used more wood, leather, silk and laquer instead of steel, though it often is used in later pieces). If you can make your armor out of a less durable metal like bronze but maintain the effectiveness of steel, you most certainly can make it out of resilient materials like dense wood (like ebony, oak or ironwood) or shells.
I can understand requiring a player character to seek out an artisan that works in those materials, but it is a non-issue for whether such items would exist. Much like the real world, people generally switch to the material that is most effective and easiestto work with, but that does not mean that there arent cultures or time periods where armor was made of an alternate material.
Shells, scales, woods, leather and ceramics can all make for suitable replacements for metal, especially when used in conjunction with each other. This is without even going to the fantasy elements of the creatures you are getting the materials from (which most definitely could include animals with significantly more durable shells or scales etc).
Hell, i have personally made stab/slash proof armor out of cloth, paper and laquer that was about 3/8ths of an inch thick (its been a while, might have been closer to half inch). I even got it to the point of stopping small caliber firearms (rifle ammo laughed at it, sure, but it worked wonderfully for the small stuff at a moderate distance of around 20ft). It wasnt a full set of armor, as i am in no way an armorer (and not nearly crazy/stupid enough to endanger myself or others with a worn prototype), but it was a good plate of the stuff.
there is non-homebrewed non-metal medium armor as well. Dragonscale armor comes to mind for example; it was even handed out in adventurer's league once upon a time.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
there's numerous non-metal magical armors. And most of the magical armors don't note what they're made out so they could be made out of anything - so if you go by that, most magical armors could be non-metal. point was that there's several easily arguable non-magical, non-metal medium and heavy armors.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
There aren't several options listed in the books for medium or heavy non-metal armor. The dragon scale given out was literally, scale mail made out of dragon scales...no special properties other than it was non metallic.
There are only two types of medium armor that do not explicity state that they are made out of metal: Hide (which sucks) and spiked which I had previously read as requiring specific proficiency and was mistaken. it says it's spikes are /usually/ made of metal...which means not always made of metal. So, a druid looking for an AC workaround /could/ find some dwarven spiked armor with wooden spikes and effectively equipped with scale armor.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
off the top of my head, here's a couple that say they're made out of something other than metal.
Living Armor (all types)
scorpion armor (this is heavy though)
i'd very much guess this is not made out of metal either considering the name and that everything else in the book that has the word 'obsidian' in it is made out of obsidian.
obsidian flint dragon plate (also heavy)
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
These are all magical. the problem for druids is they are given proficiency with medium armor. When you look at the equipment section, the only medium armor that is not /explicity/ described as being made out of metal is hide...which is objectively worse than studded leather (which they can also wear). So, your druid can't just take his gold into an armor shop and buy the best armor for which he's proficient...like literally every other single class in the game can.
Why? Flavor text. Crawford has stated that medium armor on druids is not a mistake, and it's not a balance issue. They CHOOSE to not wear it. Now, I have made the choice, as a player to not wear my best armor for RP reasons. That however, is a choice *I* made, not some arbitrary stupidity carried forward from old editions for the sake of "flavor" that I do not want, nor agree with. if they want to put this kind of stupid fluff in, they also should provide options for the players so they don't have to risk a DM arbitrarily banning them from using class features because of "flavor"
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
What ever happen to leaf wear armor?
I forget where I saw it, but it’s an alchemy recipe from a source book created by Elves! It’s used to create non metallic armors.
I could see the argument of it being used for leaves for light armors, vines for flexible armors, and barks for heavier armor
to the person asking about glassteal, our DM allowed our lore bard to “discover” it as one of his lvl 18 secrets. His character had become a somewhat “infamous” armor crafter in his “off time” using skill expertise to create some truly “epic” armors for the group (and a few rich patron lords with deep pockets) it made for some very interesting side quests and adventures (Dont even ask about the Blood vine chain mail made for the Druid ... it was SICK, or worse yet the phase spider silk “infused” displacer hide leather for the rogue)
it’s all about working with your DM to flush out the details !!!!
Fear is the mind killer!