Anyone out there playing a moon and using some house rules for improving the CRs of some typically lower CR forms?
For example....at earlier levels, I was OK with turning into a Saber-Toothed Tiger (CR2), but now at level 13, finding there are virtually no CR3 or 4 beasts to turn in to. I am considering "upping" the CR of the tiger to a CR 3 or 4 for example....
Looking at the DM guide though, the CR2 shown in the monster table does not really match with the tiger, so bumping them up to CR4 doesn't work well. Any thoughts or ideas?
My DM and I sat down and just worked out ways to take the higher CR creatures and then swap out abilities and the like so that you're just a higher powered version of low CR monsters. Well, mainly it was picking out a stat block, then swapping in special abilities, such as pack tactics.
A partial workaround is that, by level 10, you can stay in Wild Shape for 5 hours, which means you can short rest in Wild Shape and recover your 2 charges of Wild Shape while maintaining elemental form.
A partial workaround is that, by level 10, you can stay in Wild Shape for 5 hours, which means you can short rest in Wild Shape and recover your 2 charges of Wild Shape while maintaining elemental form.
We had a discussion about this and after reviewing many different views/opinions found online, came to the conclusion that druids can't recover while resting in Wildshape form. Is there any supporting documentation that supports doing this?
A partial workaround is that, by level 10, you can stay in Wild Shape for 5 hours, which means you can short rest in Wild Shape and recover your 2 charges of Wild Shape while maintaining elemental form.
We had a discussion about this and after reviewing many different views/opinions found online, came to the conclusion that druids can't recover while resting in Wildshape form. Is there any supporting documentation that supports doing this?
There's nothing in the rules on short rests or on Wild Shape that states or even implies that Wild Shape can recharge during a short rest if the Druid is in his original form but not if the Druid is in beast or elemental form. Creatures (not just players) can take short rests per this line in the PHB section on rests: "Adventurers, as well as other creatures, can take short rests in the midst of a day and a long rest to end it."
I'd put it this way - for those who think being in Wild Shape prevents the druid from resting at all, what support is there in the text of the rules for that view? For those who think the Druid can take a short rest while Wild Shaped, and can recover short rest abilities other than Wild Shape, where is the support in the text of the rules for the view that Wild Shape is different from other short rest abilities, and can't recharge during a short rest, despite being a short rest ability, if the Druid is Wild Shaped during the short rest?
There is one statement in the PHB which states: "When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed."
So, let's assume the following scenario....
1) Druid it at 10 hp out of a possible 100.
2) Druid wildshapes into elemental form that lasts for a possible 6 hours, and takes a short rest a couple hours later.
3) Druid continues on in elemental form, then returns to his regular form.
How many hit points does the druid have? If the druid returns with 10 hp...the implication is that the "druid" did not actually get a short rest....therefore no benefits from it...including recovering wildshapes perhaps...that was the conclusion we came to. I also agree it could just be one of those "things" where the rules just didn't take into consideration.
Is there an "official" place to ask these questions?
The short rest healing in Wild Shape would apply to the Wild Shape, not to the Druid's humanoid form, just like a healing spell cast on the Druid in Wild Shape heals the beast/elemental form, not the Druid's humanoid form HP.
Yep. while in wild shape you're still a druid with basically all of it's standard mechanics, that's why you still get feats and class abilities (plus an additional status of being unable to cast spells). So while in elemental/beast form, you are effectively a elemental/beast with druid levels. When you take a short rest, you can still use the HD of the elemental/beast form to recover HP and any abilities associated with that form or the class the form has, should also be recovered.
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Anyone out there playing a moon and using some house rules for improving the CRs of some typically lower CR forms?
For example....at earlier levels, I was OK with turning into a Saber-Toothed Tiger (CR2), but now at level 13, finding there are virtually no CR3 or 4 beasts to turn in to. I am considering "upping" the CR of the tiger to a CR 3 or 4 for example....
Looking at the DM guide though, the CR2 shown in the monster table does not really match with the tiger, so bumping them up to CR4 doesn't work well. Any thoughts or ideas?
The Giant Scorpion and Giant Snapping Turtle are both excellent CR 3 options.
Higher CR level beasts are a bit thin on the ground, unless you count dinosaurs.
You can easily see a list of all CR 3+ beasts here on D&D Beyond:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters?filter-type=0&filter-type=2&filter-search=&filter-cr-min=3&filter-cr-max=&filter-armor-class-min=&filter-armor-class-max=&filter-average-hp-min=&filter-average-hp-max=&filter-is-legendary=&filter-has-lair=&sort=cr
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Have you asked your DM about upping your HP? I would look at monsters with comparable AC and attack to your beast forms and just up the HP to match
I have the same problem with Wild Shape. They try to "fix" it with Elemental Shape, but that uses to both Wild Shapes.
The higher CR creatures are also bigger and bigger.
My DM and I sat down and just worked out ways to take the higher CR creatures and then swap out abilities and the like so that you're just a higher powered version of low CR monsters. Well, mainly it was picking out a stat block, then swapping in special abilities, such as pack tactics.
A partial workaround is that, by level 10, you can stay in Wild Shape for 5 hours, which means you can short rest in Wild Shape and recover your 2 charges of Wild Shape while maintaining elemental form.
We had a discussion about this and after reviewing many different views/opinions found online, came to the conclusion that druids can't recover while resting in Wildshape form. Is there any supporting documentation that supports doing this?
There is nothing that I know of.
You can keep concentration on a spell and still Short Rest, so nothing should stop wild shape!
There's nothing in the rules on short rests or on Wild Shape that states or even implies that Wild Shape can recharge during a short rest if the Druid is in his original form but not if the Druid is in beast or elemental form. Creatures (not just players) can take short rests per this line in the PHB section on rests: "Adventurers, as well as other creatures, can take short rests in the midst of a day and a long rest to end it."
Even a necromancer's undead minions can spend hit dice to heal during a short rest per this Crawford tweet: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/05/11/healing-undead-minions/. I can't find anything from Crawford directly on point, but Mearls agrees you can rest in Wild Shape and, if you do, that Wild Shape recharges like every other short rest ability, per this tweet: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/08/27/can-you-short-rest-while-in-druid-wild-shape-and-gain-benefits-of-short-rest/. Mearls isn't canon, but if there some obvious reason in the rules why a Druid couldn't do that, you'd expect that Mearls would know about it.
I'd put it this way - for those who think being in Wild Shape prevents the druid from resting at all, what support is there in the text of the rules for that view? For those who think the Druid can take a short rest while Wild Shaped, and can recover short rest abilities other than Wild Shape, where is the support in the text of the rules for the view that Wild Shape is different from other short rest abilities, and can't recharge during a short rest, despite being a short rest ability, if the Druid is Wild Shaped during the short rest?
Thanks for the comments.
There is one statement in the PHB which states: "When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed."
So, let's assume the following scenario....
1) Druid it at 10 hp out of a possible 100.
2) Druid wildshapes into elemental form that lasts for a possible 6 hours, and takes a short rest a couple hours later.
3) Druid continues on in elemental form, then returns to his regular form.
How many hit points does the druid have? If the druid returns with 10 hp...the implication is that the "druid" did not actually get a short rest....therefore no benefits from it...including recovering wildshapes perhaps...that was the conclusion we came to. I also agree it could just be one of those "things" where the rules just didn't take into consideration.
Is there an "official" place to ask these questions?
The short rest healing in Wild Shape would apply to the Wild Shape, not to the Druid's humanoid form, just like a healing spell cast on the Druid in Wild Shape heals the beast/elemental form, not the Druid's humanoid form HP.
Yep. while in wild shape you're still a druid with basically all of it's standard mechanics, that's why you still get feats and class abilities (plus an additional status of being unable to cast spells). So while in elemental/beast form, you are effectively a elemental/beast with druid levels. When you take a short rest, you can still use the HD of the elemental/beast form to recover HP and any abilities associated with that form or the class the form has, should also be recovered.