I'm using Conjure Animals to summon a different type of beast every night right before long resting in so that I see every single beast that it's possible for my Circle of the Moon Druid to Wildshape into. Has anyone else done that? What did your DM say?
:) Interesting use of the spell. Seems like such an obvious thing for a druid to do (and yet, I don't think I'd of thought of it!)
Some people will accuse you of metagaming (I think they are wrong) and some people will remind you that the DM chooses the exact type of creature that is summoned. Personally I think it is the natural thing to do...(play on words fully intentional.) Is it any different from changing into an owl and spending the nights observing creatures, or soaring on thermals as an eagle during the day?
There may even be a niche for somebody to open a zoo aimed purely at aspiring druids.
If I was your DM, I would certainly allow it. If I was your high druid mentor, I would consider it mandatory fieldwork.
Of course if your DM really wants to screw with you:
"Mice.
There are over 35 to 40 species of rodents including other genus’s and the Mus genus. The genus shows evidence of more speciation as years go by. The mice and mouse name covers over 1,000 or more mice and mice like species. The term mouse is used commonly to name small Muroid rodents, which are a superfamily of rodents. The Muroid families are divided into six families, 20 subfamilies, around 275 to 285 genera, and at least 1250 to 1300 species. The most common “true” mouse is the house mouse, or scientifically known as Mus musculus species of rodents. The Latin behind the meaning of the rodent’s genius species name can be translated into “mouse, small mouse,” As for the house reference in the common name, it is derived from the house mouse being commonly found in the in homes, shelters, or buildings throughout the year. In different translations of the Latin word Mus, it is found in the Anglo-Saxton language to have derived from the Sanskrit word “musha” which means thief. This term suits the mouse became it is known as a scavenger."
The DM picks the beast that's summoned, but the Druid picks the CR. What I hope my DM does, is that when I use Conjure Animals this way he'll give me a beast that I haven't seen before of the CR that I specify at least once a week from the type of terrain where I am when I cast the spell as long as there's a beast that's native to the terrain that I haven't seen. My DM is reasonable, he doesn't make our lives miserable for the sake of making them miserable and he rewards us for role playing, so I'm pretty sure that he's going to give me a few new beasts to change into this way.
It is meta-gaming a tiny bit, but it's not that extreme. Polymorph can be used to do the same thing, but that's a 4th level spell instead of a 3rd level spell.
Check with your DM about whether or not the druids of different circles / covens / communes / blood feasting moon worshippers get together in his 'world' if yes then ask if you have visited. It would be a smorgas board of wildshapers demonstrating their regional animal forms either just for improving their knowledge (poke druids gotta collect em all) or in challenges beast to beast.
Tims totes right. 7th level Polymorph could be your friend and you could pick animals you have seen in books but not qualified for in terms of wildshape.
However yes, conjure animals is a great way to get forms - heres how to trim down the 'herd' of forms into more likely ones you want. Cast into areas that are incompatible with types to cut the list down, On a wall will get you climbers, in the air will get you flyers, in a freakishly small tunnels will only get you freakishly small critters.
Dont underestimate mister badger if your a moon druid (or his larger friend Giant Badger). An action to cast heat metal on an unfortunate Heavy armour clad foe, a bonus action to shift and a burrow down and around a corner movement means you can keep burning and he needs a hosepipe to flood you out. (Its how the burning badger festival started)
i keep hearing/reading on boards that the DM picks the animal, but thats not RAW. ive read the spell over and over and the DM is only mentioned in regard to having the creatures statistics. you're free to pick the creature.
I usually pick wolf for the pack advantage and the 8 chances to prone my enemies.
i keep hearing/reading on boards that the DM picks the animal, but thats not RAW. ive read the spell over and over and the DM is only mentioned in regard to having the creatures statistics. you're free to pick the creature.
What you keep hearing/reading is the correct interpretation.
With 5th edition D&D the rules wording is designed to be much clearer and require less interpretation. In short, if a spell or feature allows you to do something, it will tell you that it does. If it doesn't mention it, then it doesn't work.
In the case of the spell conjure animals it states that the caster should, "Choose one of the following options for what appears" and then gives the option of selecting the challenge rating. That is the limit of what the player gets to decide about what is summoned.
It then states, "The DM has the creatures' statistics. Sample creatures can be found below." - this is important as it means two things: firstly that the statistics for the creatures that are summoned is up to the DM; secondly that the table included in the spell is not exhaustive and the DM is free to use any qualifying beasts that they deem suitable.
The challenge with that is the DM has enough work to do. I cast Conjure Animals in combat last week and the DM told me to pick which beast I summoned so I rolled for them at random and I pulled up their stats and tracked everything. That way he didn't have to deal with that work on top of the rest of running the combat.
I'm not sure if my DM is going to start picking the beasts himself or if he's going to keep having me pick them, but for him to prepare everything so that he can pick the beasts himself is a extra preparation work that he really doesn't need.
How much does it unbalance the game for the player instead of the DM to pick exactly which beasts are summoned?
If the DM is happy for you to roll, or they trust your judgement as a player to make a reasonable choice, then you have a good group there and I wouldn't worry about it. :)
I guess the key point is that it's the DM's choice and if the DM delegates that choice to you because they trust you, that's cool.
I think the only thing in terms of balance is you should avoid selecting the beasts that are summoned based on what would be most useful to your current situation, perhaps pick what is most suitable for the terrain type and conditions. It's your call though!
@Stormknight is there any confirmation of that interpretation? It doesn't say the DM "chooses" it just syas they have the statistics, likely to prevent meta gaming on the part of the player. But like you said, it says clearly what you can and can't do and in this case it doesn't specify that the DM chooses the creatures, only that they have the statistics.
@Stormknight is there any confirmation of that interpretation? It doesn't say the DM "chooses" it just syas they have the statistics, likely to prevent meta gaming on the part of the player. But like you said, it says clearly what you can and can't do and in this case it doesn't specify that the DM chooses the creatures, only that they have the statistics.
Given the 5 year gap I'll answer.
The SAC confirmes that interpretation here. When you get to level 7 technically you can do the same thing by casting polymorph on your friends but it does seema bit of a cheat. My DM only allows me to polymorph creatures into beats I have seen and I am fine with that.
Our DM would probably not allow this on the grounds that you're not conjuring the actual animals, just a fey spirit that resembles the animal.
I make a point of,
asking if there's any public or private menageries in every city we visit
visiting the docks of every port we pass through to check for exotic animals (accompanying sailors or as cargo)
asking the DM whether we see animals when travelling though forests, countryside, etc - esp. in foreign lands.
I help him out by making a list of what I think might be likely (he rolls to see if I'm successful and again to see which one on the list) and, for any successes, I go and homebrew a stat block for it which he checks/tweaks.
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I'm using Conjure Animals to summon a different type of beast every night right before long resting in so that I see every single beast that it's possible for my Circle of the Moon Druid to Wildshape into. Has anyone else done that? What did your DM say?
Professional computer geek
:) Interesting use of the spell. Seems like such an obvious thing for a druid to do (and yet, I don't think I'd of thought of it!)
Some people will accuse you of metagaming (I think they are wrong) and some people will remind you that the DM chooses the exact type of creature that is summoned.
Personally I think it is the natural thing to do...(play on words fully intentional.)
Is it any different from changing into an owl and spending the nights observing creatures, or soaring on thermals as an eagle during the day?
There may even be a niche for somebody to open a zoo aimed purely at aspiring druids.
If I was your DM, I would certainly allow it.
If I was your high druid mentor, I would consider it mandatory fieldwork.
Of course if your DM really wants to screw with you:
"Mice.
There are over 35 to 40 species of rodents including other genus’s and the Mus genus. The genus shows evidence of more speciation as years go by. The mice and mouse name covers over 1,000 or more mice and mice like species.
The term mouse is used commonly to name small Muroid rodents, which are a superfamily of rodents. The Muroid families are divided into six families, 20 subfamilies, around 275 to 285 genera, and at least 1250 to 1300 species. The most common “true” mouse is the house mouse, or scientifically known as Mus musculus species of rodents. The Latin behind the meaning of the rodent’s genius species name can be translated into “mouse, small mouse,” As for the house reference in the common name, it is derived from the house mouse being commonly found in the in homes, shelters, or buildings throughout the year. In different translations of the Latin word Mus, it is found in the Anglo-Saxton language to have derived from the Sanskrit word “musha” which means thief. This term suits the mouse became it is known as a scavenger."
:D
Roleplaying since Runequest.
The DM picks the beast that's summoned, but the Druid picks the CR. What I hope my DM does, is that when I use Conjure Animals this way he'll give me a beast that I haven't seen before of the CR that I specify at least once a week from the type of terrain where I am when I cast the spell as long as there's a beast that's native to the terrain that I haven't seen. My DM is reasonable, he doesn't make our lives miserable for the sake of making them miserable and he rewards us for role playing, so I'm pretty sure that he's going to give me a few new beasts to change into this way.
It is meta-gaming a tiny bit, but it's not that extreme. Polymorph can be used to do the same thing, but that's a 4th level spell instead of a 3rd level spell.
Professional computer geek
Check with your DM about whether or not the druids of different circles / covens / communes / blood feasting moon worshippers get together in his 'world' if yes then ask if you have visited. It would be a smorgas board of wildshapers demonstrating their regional animal forms either just for improving their knowledge (poke druids gotta collect em all) or in challenges beast to beast.
Tims totes right. 7th level Polymorph could be your friend and you could pick animals you have seen in books but not qualified for in terms of wildshape.
However yes, conjure animals is a great way to get forms - heres how to trim down the 'herd' of forms into more likely ones you want. Cast into areas that are incompatible with types to cut the list down, On a wall will get you climbers, in the air will get you flyers, in a freakishly small tunnels will only get you freakishly small critters.
Dont underestimate mister badger if your a moon druid (or his larger friend Giant Badger). An action to cast heat metal on an unfortunate Heavy armour clad foe, a bonus action to shift and a burrow down and around a corner movement means you can keep burning and he needs a hosepipe to flood you out. (Its how the burning badger festival started)
Hit up a library so I could do just this. My DM has let me choose the animals for conjure animals, so I should have plenty of options soon.
i keep hearing/reading on boards that the DM picks the animal, but thats not RAW. ive read the spell over and over and the DM is only mentioned in regard to having the creatures statistics. you're free to pick the creature.
I usually pick wolf for the pack advantage and the 8 chances to prone my enemies.
What you keep hearing/reading is the correct interpretation.
With 5th edition D&D the rules wording is designed to be much clearer and require less interpretation. In short, if a spell or feature allows you to do something, it will tell you that it does. If it doesn't mention it, then it doesn't work.
In the case of the spell conjure animals it states that the caster should, "Choose one of the following options for what appears" and then gives the option of selecting the challenge rating. That is the limit of what the player gets to decide about what is summoned.
It then states, "The DM has the creatures' statistics. Sample creatures can be found below." - this is important as it means two things: firstly that the statistics for the creatures that are summoned is up to the DM; secondly that the table included in the spell is not exhaustive and the DM is free to use any qualifying beasts that they deem suitable.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
The challenge with that is the DM has enough work to do. I cast Conjure Animals in combat last week and the DM told me to pick which beast I summoned so I rolled for them at random and I pulled up their stats and tracked everything. That way he didn't have to deal with that work on top of the rest of running the combat.
I'm not sure if my DM is going to start picking the beasts himself or if he's going to keep having me pick them, but for him to prepare everything so that he can pick the beasts himself is a extra preparation work that he really doesn't need.
How much does it unbalance the game for the player instead of the DM to pick exactly which beasts are summoned?
Professional computer geek
If the DM is happy for you to roll, or they trust your judgement as a player to make a reasonable choice, then you have a good group there and I wouldn't worry about it. :)
I guess the key point is that it's the DM's choice and if the DM delegates that choice to you because they trust you, that's cool.
I think the only thing in terms of balance is you should avoid selecting the beasts that are summoned based on what would be most useful to your current situation, perhaps pick what is most suitable for the terrain type and conditions. It's your call though!
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Thanks. I rolled 2d8-1 and counted down the list of beasts and that's what I picked. It was completely random.
Professional computer geek
@Stormknight is there any confirmation of that interpretation? It doesn't say the DM "chooses" it just syas they have the statistics, likely to prevent meta gaming on the part of the player. But like you said, it says clearly what you can and can't do and in this case it doesn't specify that the DM chooses the creatures, only that they have the statistics.
Given the 5 year gap I'll answer.
The SAC confirmes that interpretation here. When you get to level 7 technically you can do the same thing by casting polymorph on your friends but it does seema bit of a cheat. My DM only allows me to polymorph creatures into beats I have seen and I am fine with that.
Our DM would probably not allow this on the grounds that you're not conjuring the actual animals, just a fey spirit that resembles the animal.
I make a point of,
I help him out by making a list of what I think might be likely (he rolls to see if I'm successful and again to see which one on the list) and, for any successes, I go and homebrew a stat block for it which he checks/tweaks.