So I’ve been pretty hyped for Circle of Spores since I saw it in the UA. However with the 10’ limitation on Halo of Spores it felt like it was meant to be a melee Druid without forms (yes I know, boo, hiss)
However Shillelagh + Halo of Spores + Symbiotic Entity has resulted in some pretty nasty damage output in testing with a club and shield wielding Tortle. (1d8 magical/bludgeoning + WIS + 1d6 poison for each melee hit + 2d4 necrotic on a failed save all at level 2) The temp HP buff from Symbiotic Entity is also a huge boon.
Has anyone else had any success with a spores druid? What’s the general feeling on them?
I feel like it’s not meant for ranged combat and that’s the biggest thing, it feels like a definite melee Druid to be fully capable since everything only works in a 10’ range.
Tortle definitely makes the class much better if you have the option
What about Primal Savagery instead? Wouldn't that provide higher damage on the action instead of a Shillelagh attack?
I agree Primal Savagery is a great fit for the spore guy. Shillelagh has certain pros but nothing a spore guy really needs, i.e. it works with extra attacks, with an opportunity attack etc.
edit: the point I meant to say is; reaction should be used for halo of spores rather than an opportunity attack
What about Primal Savagery instead? Wouldn't that provide higher damage on the action instead of a Shillelagh attack?
The problem with Primal Savagery is that it doesn’t work with the 1d6 poison from Symbiotic Entity. And Primal Savagery doesn’t overtake Shilelagh in damage till level 5 (2d10 V.S. 1d8 + WIS + 1d6) once you get to level 5 though you can easily swap to Savagery and use that from then on.
For example, an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.
obviously Primal Savagery is listed as a melee spell attack, however, it is performed in the same manner as an unarmed strike. which raises an interesting case for this particular spell attack being considered a weapon attack; as far as symbiotic entity is concerned.
I do think the intention of symbiotic entity was to not be a bonus to ranged damage rather than a restriction to weapons.
also a bit of precedence is set with Green-Flame Blade and Booming Blade both being cantrips that have melee attacks with a weapon involved which satisfies symbiotic entity requirements.
it's a tough one, I think I am leaning towards primal being a type of unarmed strike, which qualifies it as a weapon for symbiotic entity.
I would say while close, the blade cantrips specifically say to make a melee attack with a weapon where as Primal Savagery does not. I assume it's the way it is so that you get your spell DC rather than an attack roll.
It was mostly me looking for way to optimize since Shillelagh becomes less effective as levels increase and druids have a very limited number of cantrips and I liked that Primal Savagery even continued the acid/poison theme. In reality, that might be a bad thing for monsters with resistance.
I would say while close, the blade cantrips specifically say to make a melee attack with a weapon where as Primal Savagery does not. I assume it's the way it is so that you get your spell DC rather than an attack roll.
I assume it's the way it is so that you get your spell DC rather than an attack roll.
I am trying to point out that an attack roll can be a melee weapon attack, a ranged spell attack or some other type. it is generally a d20 roll + proficiency mod + ability mod. rolled by the attacker.
a spell DC is formed by; 8 + proficiency mod + ability mod. the resulting number is the spell save DC that the defender must roll to save.
I brought it up because you indicated that spell DC was relevant to Primal Savagery.
I certainly see by your post that you know how the spell works... so I think you meant spell attack modifier vice spell DC.
No, it's a melee spell attack, spellcasting ability modifier + proficiency bonus rather than DEX/STR + proficiency for a weapon.
both Primal Savagery and Shillelagh do use the same formula, it seems to me the question is, if "a melee weapon attack means a melee attack with a weapon" (SA pg10) and Primal Savagery is a melee attack. than is the hand, fingernails or teeth that delivers it, in fact, a weapon?
if they (hands, teeth) are a weapon, as they are for unarmed strike, then the spell meets the criteria for symbiotic entity.
of course DMs discretion, but it's not unreasonable to say hands are weapons when used to attack.
In the end, I want you to be correct since I liked the idea and either way, if I get to play one I will check if the DM would allow it. That said, maybe we can get an official unofficial answer: https://twitter.com/amweiss/status/1071379609839640576?s=20
I would say while close, the blade cantrips specifically say to make a melee attack with a weapon where as Primal Savagery does not. I assume it's the way it is so that you get your spell DC rather than an attack roll.
It was mostly me looking for way to optimize since Shillelagh becomes less effective as levels increase and druids have a very limited number of cantrips and I liked that Primal Savagery even continued the acid/poison theme. In reality, that might be a bad thing for monsters with resistance.
So under the heading of optimizing damage, High elf take booming or green flame as their wiz cantrip, shillelagh for that wisdom to hit and spores. Could be a fun build :-D. Otherwise either abberant dragonmark or magic initiate to get access if you don't want to be an elf.
So I’ve been pretty hyped for Circle of Spores since I saw it in the UA. However with the 10’ limitation on Halo of Spores it felt like it was meant to be a melee Druid without forms (yes I know, boo, hiss)
However Shillelagh + Halo of Spores + Symbiotic Entity has resulted in some pretty nasty damage output in testing with a club and shield wielding Tortle. (1d8 magical/bludgeoning + WIS + 1d6 poison for each melee hit + 2d4 necrotic on a failed save all at level 2) The temp HP buff from Symbiotic Entity is also a huge boon.
Has anyone else had any success with a spores druid? What’s the general feeling on them?
Link for reference: https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/6610334/ITGoC2
The Circle of the Spores gets a full release very soon in Guildmaster’s Guide to Ravnica.Didn't realize it was out yet. I thought it was still UA.
Yes, it’s already out, that’s what I’m using.
I'm glad you're enjoying it - I'm going to be running one in my next campaign, but I am a bit nervous about the changes they made from the UA.
I feel like it’s not meant for ranged combat and that’s the biggest thing, it feels like a definite melee Druid to be fully capable since everything only works in a 10’ range.
Tortle definitely makes the class much better if you have the option
I've been playing one in a live stream game for a while and loving it. Definitely end up in the thick of things most times and hold my own.
It just occurred to me: at 20th level you could have symbiotic entity going at all times, right?
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If you’re in combat I’d suggest shillelagh for sure. Near doubles your damage and counts as magical which is fun.
I also did some spell selection based on being able to entangle or prone enemies in my halo.
Keep me updated on how you do!
What about Primal Savagery instead? Wouldn't that provide higher damage on the action instead of a Shillelagh attack?
I agree Primal Savagery is a great fit for the spore guy. Shillelagh has certain pros but nothing a spore guy really needs, i.e. it works with extra attacks, with an opportunity attack etc.
edit: the point I meant to say is; reaction should be used for halo of spores rather than an opportunity attack
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
The problem with Primal Savagery is that it doesn’t work with the 1d6 poison from Symbiotic Entity. And Primal Savagery doesn’t overtake Shilelagh in damage till level 5 (2d10 V.S. 1d8 + WIS + 1d6) once you get to level 5 though you can easily swap to Savagery and use that from then on.
Ah, true, I forgot it was only on melee weapon and not just melee attacks.
hmmm I looked up SA
For example, an unarmed strike counts as a
melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.
obviously Primal Savagery is listed as a melee spell attack, however, it is performed in the same manner as an unarmed strike. which raises an interesting case for this particular spell attack being considered a weapon attack; as far as symbiotic entity is concerned.
I do think the intention of symbiotic entity was to not be a bonus to ranged damage rather than a restriction to weapons.
also a bit of precedence is set with Green-Flame Blade and Booming Blade both being cantrips that have melee attacks with a weapon involved which satisfies symbiotic entity requirements.
it's a tough one, I think I am leaning towards primal being a type of unarmed strike, which qualifies it as a weapon for symbiotic entity.
thoughts?
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
I would say while close, the blade cantrips specifically say to make a melee attack with a weapon where as Primal Savagery does not. I assume it's the way it is so that you get your spell DC rather than an attack roll.
It was mostly me looking for way to optimize since Shillelagh becomes less effective as levels increase and druids have a very limited number of cantrips and I liked that Primal Savagery even continued the acid/poison theme. In reality, that might be a bad thing for monsters with resistance.
so we are clear, Primal Savagery is an attack roll.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
No, it's a melee spell attack, spellcasting ability modifier + proficiency bonus rather than DEX/STR + proficiency for a weapon.
I am trying to point out that an attack roll can be a melee weapon attack, a ranged spell attack or some other type. it is generally a d20 roll + proficiency mod + ability mod. rolled by the attacker.
a spell DC is formed by; 8 + proficiency mod + ability mod. the resulting number is the spell save DC that the defender must roll to save.
I brought it up because you indicated that spell DC was relevant to Primal Savagery.
I certainly see by your post that you know how the spell works... so I think you meant spell attack modifier vice spell DC.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
both Primal Savagery and Shillelagh do use the same formula, it seems to me the question is, if "a melee weapon attack means a melee attack with a weapon" (SA pg10) and Primal Savagery is a melee attack. than is the hand, fingernails or teeth that delivers it, in fact, a weapon?
if they (hands, teeth) are a weapon, as they are for unarmed strike, then the spell meets the criteria for symbiotic entity.
of course DMs discretion, but it's not unreasonable to say hands are weapons when used to attack.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Yes, sorry, I meant modifier not DC originally.
In the end, I want you to be correct since I liked the idea and either way, if I get to play one I will check if the DM would allow it. That said, maybe we can get an official unofficial answer: https://twitter.com/amweiss/status/1071379609839640576?s=20
So under the heading of optimizing damage, High elf take booming or green flame as their wiz cantrip, shillelagh for that wisdom to hit and spores. Could be a fun build :-D. Otherwise either abberant dragonmark or magic initiate to get access if you don't want to be an elf.
here's to hoping for a favourable ruling!
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.