I keep seeing posts commenting on the value of taking Shillelagh as a spell.
Can someone explain why? I really don't get it. I'm currently a 6th level druid, and have never seen the need for it a single time. Perhaps I'm not playing my druid as efficiently as I should be and I'm not understanding something. I don't see it scaling well compared to other options.
Is it because I'm a Moon Circle druid and wildshaped more often? I've not played a Land Circle druid so perhaps that's why?
When compared to Thorn Whip or Primal Savagery, there are pros and cons. All of them make melee attacks so can be used against someone in your face.
Thorn Whip - lower initial damage, but it scales up. Still only by d6's, but it scales. Can hit someone at range, and can pull them.
Primal Savagery - higher damage, but melee only and is Acid damage. Not resisted as frequently as something like Fire or Cold damage, but magical Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing damage still rule when it comes to not being resisted.
Shillelagh - damage doesn't scale, it simply turns your stick into a weapon you can use to attack with Wisdom as the attack stat. Upsides, it's magical bludgeoning damage which can hit pretty much everything, and because it's a weapon, if you have Shillelagh already active you can thwack people with it as an Attack Of Opportunity. Doing so with Thorn Whip or Primal Savagery requires the War Caster feat.
The thing with Shillelagh (I probably didn't spell that right) is that while it's good it's only useful to certain kinds of play. And it's not a style that we all will play when doing a druid. For the rest of us it's more of an "oh crap. I'm in melee" type of spell that we may rarely use. So like a wide variety of things about the druid. It's good but it's situational and it's all about how you use it and your style.
When things started it also had few competitors for the kind of spell it is at the range that it is for druids. (the other 1 or 2 being like poison spray and thorn whip maybe?) and supplements have since upped the list for them (and for clerics with their own damage cantrip bottleneck). And the cantrips all have the same basic weakness... close range. The other two also weren't desirable to all either because of the type of damage they did (poison) or some other aspect (thorn whips pulling the target closer) which limited their usefulness against certain kinds of targets.
JD actually covered some of the specifics of pro's and cons for the different spells. Only missing Poison Spray which has the advantage of being a bit longer range (10') than melee and higher damage (d12) as well as scaling but the weaknesses that it is a spell so it can't AoO without the War Caster Feat. It is a con save instead of an attack roll as well but that can work both for and against you.
I like the idea of the Nature Cleric getting it as a free druid cantrip and then raining holy nature smackdowns with a gnarled magic staff that starts to wrap itself in elemental energy at level 8.
Another point to consider. Resistance to spell damage and/or advantage on saves vs spells and/or disadvantage on spell attacks or whatever similar defenses will protect you from other attack cantrips but not the enhanced staff from Shillelagh. Conversely, resistance against bludgeoning or disadvantage against melee weapon attacks will protect you from Shillelagh but not other attack cantrips. I suppose that's reason enough to have both? Or skip Shillelagh and carry a scimitar which does less damage and has lower to hit but is better than nothing?
"Want to make a wise Fighter that relies on instinct? Grab Shillelagh, and focus on Wisdom (even if, once again, it's weird)"
In the spell description for Shillelagh, the spell lets you use your spellcasting modifier for damage, not necessarily WIS. You just gave me a great idea for a Variant Human eldritch knight fighter who takes magic initiate at lvl 1 then polearm master at lvl 4, and just puts everything into INT.
You'd basically be running around like Gandalf; beating people into submission in melee then casting a spell in those clutch moments.
But doesn't the action economy and duration on Booming Blade make it less of an option for an entire combat? It only lasts for one strike and takes an action to cast? I can't see it being something that my character would use often, other than maybe the first round of combat. Which, I guess, if you combined with Shillelagh and a Gloomstalker might make for a pretty powerful first attack but that's a pretty specific case.
Or....if you have the two weapon fighting feature, a shillelagh in each hand would provide superior damage to most other light weapons, right?
If you used clubs, I suppose that would work. Though it wouldn't be until your third turn before you could take advantage, since you'd be spending your first two bonus actions casting Shillelagh.
So it does. I missed that line I guess. I was just too optimistic. I have a character with TWF and find that the light property weapons don't do enough damage so I was hoping to find a higher damage option without taking the dual wielder feat.
Variant human, magic initiate (Druid) feat as racial bonus. Shillelagh, another cantrip, and entangle. Play as a monk and pump up the club damage, keep the unarmed and have a pretty decent battlefield spell 1x/day. Sounds like a decent start, in terms of survivability. Am I missing anything?
"Want to make a wise Fighter that relies on instinct? Grab Shillelagh, and focus on Wisdom (even if, once again, it's weird)"
In the spell description for Shillelagh, the spell lets you use your spellcasting modifier for damage, not necessarily WIS. You just gave me a great idea for a Variant Human eldritch knight fighter who takes magic initiate at lvl 1 then polearm master at lvl 4, and just puts everything into INT.
You'd basically be running around like Gandalf; beating people into submission in melee then casting a spell in those clutch moments.
I believe all the ways you have to get shillelagh require you to use your WIS as your spellcasting modifier. For example, if you take the Magic Initiate feat, it says
"Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard."
"Want to make a wise Fighter that relies on instinct? Grab Shillelagh, and focus on Wisdom (even if, once again, it's weird)"
In the spell description for Shillelagh, the spell lets you use your spellcasting modifier for damage, not necessarily WIS. You just gave me a great idea for a Variant Human eldritch knight fighter who takes magic initiate at lvl 1 then polearm master at lvl 4, and just puts everything into INT.
You'd basically be running around like Gandalf; beating people into submission in melee then casting a spell in those clutch moments.
I believe all the ways you have to get shillelagh require you to use your WIS as your spellcasting modifier. For example, if you take the Magic Initiate feat, it says
"Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard."
This is (currently) exactly correct. Shillelagh is only on the spell list for druids (not even available to any other subclasses as of current posting) so only available to cast with wisdom.
I think it is amazing at low levels. Encountering an enemy that is resistant to non-magical physical attacks can be a real tough challenge for a low level party. However, after a few 'iffy' spells don't land, pull out the staff and boop it on the head! I think very quickly though, depending on play style, it out lives it's use.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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When compared to Thorn Whip or Primal Savagery, there are pros and cons. All of them make melee attacks so can be used against someone in your face.
Thorn Whip - lower initial damage, but it scales up. Still only by d6's, but it scales. Can hit someone at range, and can pull them.
Primal Savagery - higher damage, but melee only and is Acid damage. Not resisted as frequently as something like Fire or Cold damage, but magical Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing damage still rule when it comes to not being resisted.
Shillelagh - damage doesn't scale, it simply turns your stick into a weapon you can use to attack with Wisdom as the attack stat. Upsides, it's magical bludgeoning damage which can hit pretty much everything, and because it's a weapon, if you have Shillelagh already active you can thwack people with it as an Attack Of Opportunity. Doing so with Thorn Whip or Primal Savagery requires the War Caster feat.
The thing with Shillelagh (I probably didn't spell that right) is that while it's good it's only useful to certain kinds of play. And it's not a style that we all will play when doing a druid. For the rest of us it's more of an "oh crap. I'm in melee" type of spell that we may rarely use. So like a wide variety of things about the druid. It's good but it's situational and it's all about how you use it and your style.
When things started it also had few competitors for the kind of spell it is at the range that it is for druids. (the other 1 or 2 being like poison spray and thorn whip maybe?) and supplements have since upped the list for them (and for clerics with their own damage cantrip bottleneck). And the cantrips all have the same basic weakness... close range. The other two also weren't desirable to all either because of the type of damage they did (poison) or some other aspect (thorn whips pulling the target closer) which limited their usefulness against certain kinds of targets.
JD actually covered some of the specifics of pro's and cons for the different spells. Only missing Poison Spray which has the advantage of being a bit longer range (10') than melee and higher damage (d12) as well as scaling but the weaknesses that it is a spell so it can't AoO without the War Caster Feat. It is a con save instead of an attack roll as well but that can work both for and against you.
I like the idea of the Nature Cleric getting it as a free druid cantrip and then raining holy nature smackdowns with a gnarled magic staff that starts to wrap itself in elemental energy at level 8.
Another point to consider. Resistance to spell damage and/or advantage on saves vs spells and/or disadvantage on spell attacks or whatever similar defenses will protect you from other attack cantrips but not the enhanced staff from Shillelagh. Conversely, resistance against bludgeoning or disadvantage against melee weapon attacks will protect you from Shillelagh but not other attack cantrips. I suppose that's reason enough to have both? Or skip Shillelagh and carry a scimitar which does less damage and has lower to hit but is better than nothing?
"Want to make a wise Fighter that relies on instinct? Grab Shillelagh, and focus on Wisdom (even if, once again, it's weird)"
In the spell description for Shillelagh, the spell lets you use your spellcasting modifier for damage, not necessarily WIS. You just gave me a great idea for a Variant Human eldritch knight fighter who takes magic initiate at lvl 1 then polearm master at lvl 4, and just puts everything into INT.
You'd basically be running around like Gandalf; beating people into submission in melee then casting a spell in those clutch moments.
I just read up on the magic initiative feat and it would lock you into WIS for the casting ability. I feel really dumb now.
But doesn't the action economy and duration on Booming Blade make it less of an option for an entire combat? It only lasts for one strike and takes an action to cast? I can't see it being something that my character would use often, other than maybe the first round of combat. Which, I guess, if you combined with Shillelagh and a Gloomstalker might make for a pretty powerful first attack but that's a pretty specific case.
Or....if you have the two weapon fighting feature, a shillelagh in each hand would provide superior damage to most other light weapons, right?
If you used clubs, I suppose that would work. Though it wouldn't be until your third turn before you could take advantage, since you'd be spending your first two bonus actions casting Shillelagh.
If you cast again Shillelagh, you lose the first effect
My homebrew feat for thrown weapons, feat to help DMs extend Sorcerer's spells known list, and my homebrew combo monk subclass (diablo inspired)!
So it does. I missed that line I guess. I was just too optimistic. I have a character with TWF and find that the light property weapons don't do enough damage so I was hoping to find a higher damage option without taking the dual wielder feat.
Back to the drawing board I suppose.
However, polearm master can be used with Shillelagh, and it can be reflavored as two clubs or just hitting with both ends of the staff
My homebrew feat for thrown weapons, feat to help DMs extend Sorcerer's spells known list, and my homebrew combo monk subclass (diablo inspired)!
I think that there is some advice somewhere that PAM's bonus action attack is a d4 with or without shillelagh. Only the main attack becomes a d8
Variant human, magic initiate (Druid) feat as racial bonus. Shillelagh, another cantrip, and entangle. Play as a monk and pump up the club damage, keep the unarmed and have a pretty decent battlefield spell 1x/day. Sounds like a decent start, in terms of survivability. Am I missing anything?
My build
druid(spores)2/ranger(Horizon Walker)X Haste, Planar Warrior, Symbiotic Entity, Halo of Spores etc. Got like 7d8+4d6+28 damage, Good stuff
If you want you can also take Booming Blade and Mobile for an extra 5d8 damage
I believe all the ways you have to get shillelagh require you to use your WIS as your spellcasting modifier. For example, if you take the Magic Initiate feat, it says
"Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard."
This is (currently) exactly correct. Shillelagh is only on the spell list for druids (not even available to any other subclasses as of current posting) so only available to cast with wisdom.
I think it is amazing at low levels. Encountering an enemy that is resistant to non-magical physical attacks can be a real tough challenge for a low level party. However, after a few 'iffy' spells don't land, pull out the staff and boop it on the head! I think very quickly though, depending on play style, it out lives it's use.
I suppose with cantrip versatility there is more reason to take it for those early levels.
If you go high elf or high half-elf, you can pick up booming blade to make your single melee attack with shillelagh scale better if you need it to.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha