So each time we start a campaign I'm always tempted to play a druid but I never do. I'm not really a huge fan of wildshape and like that there's more druid classes coming out that don't rely on it.
Wildfire caught my eye, I hear it's been nerfed from UA and some people are upset, I get that but as it stands in print what are your thoughts on the class as far as the mechanics go? I like it in concept of destruction and regrowth, and the idea of a fiery pet that offers some benefits so am curious to hear what any of you might think of it.
I was excited about it, but the loss of firebolt and fireball really turn me off. Those to me, are the two most iconic fire spells of 5e. I've not been able to make myself look past the spell list to look at the rest of the features that remain.
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My opinion is similar to hawk. I was stupid excited about the subclass, but that turned to mixed excitement due to some of the spell changes. I do still plan on playing it at some point but not sure when now.
When it comes the removal of raise dead for mass cure wounds, I do like that change and the same goes for the addition of Revivify, but that should has replaced Plant Growth and not Fireball. As for Firebolt, I wasn't the biggest fan of it being the bonus cantrip and would rather liked Produce Flame as the bonus cantrip instead. Now, did the removal of the cantrip come at the addition of the 1st level spells of the list, maybe, but if I had to pick a bonus cantrip or two auto-prepared 1st level spells... I'd probably pick the 2.
edit: Just looked at the UA spell list and more was changed than I remembered. For the most part I do like the changes, but the removal of Fireball was stupid.
The 10th level feature is kind of "meh" to me. I get it, but having it be triggered by someone moving into a 5-ft space is.....not great. Too conditional imo.
It's really sad, that all people think that wildfire was nerfed. The opposite is the case: it was buffed, massevly!
Your spirit can now use Fiery Teleportation at will. With your bonus action, you can teleport the whole party 15 feet and damage surrounding enemies. That's so strong. You can position the entire party in a new arrangement, the party doesn't need to be in the same formation when they were teleported. This is one of the strongest features ever!
I didnt say it was nerfed, I said they took away some of the things that attracted me to it in the first place. It might be great, I'm just not interested in it any longer.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
after doing a thorough rereading of both the UA and the released versions of the wildfire druid, this is what I think;
Circle Spells; As previously stated in my comment earlier, I am sad that we lost the fireball spell for revivify. Although I do agree with the changes with the other spells. Also after noticing that the druid also gains revivify via expanded spell list in Tasha's, I feel that brings more merit to keeping fireball in the spell list instead since they can learn the spell naturally now. It is what it is.
Summon Wildfire Spirit; When it comes to the changes to the wildfire spirit, it's a rebalancing that I felt was for the better. Reducing the health to 5 + (5 x druid level) comes out to same hit points when you first get this feature (assuming player has 16-17 Wisdom score), and even though it does have a reduced amount at higher levels, not sure how much people are going to complain about losing 6 hit points for the simplicity of this released version. Now the spirit does lose its bonus' to all saving throw and nature skill, losing the saving throws is sad but dropping the bonus to nature checks I see as a non issue. As for the actions, I do like what was changed. Increasing the main attack to 60 feet (from 30) and removing the once per long rest teleport (which I thought was weird that was there in the first place).
Enhanced Bond; From what I saw nothing has changed on this feature.
Cauterizing Flames; The only change I noticed was the amount of uses from Wisdom modifier times per long rest to Proficiency bonus times per long rest. Which I don't have an issue with overall but after talking with Sposta on homebrew balance, the use of proficiency bonus as a means of charges gives multi classing a huge boon since it's tied to character level instead of class level. So take that as you will for WotC trying this out.
Blazing Revival; When it comes to this feature, I do agree that the UA version needed to be nerfed, but not in the way that it was done. I would've liked it if they kept the fire explosion but just reduced (if not just removed) the amount temp hit points. Now for the player to even be able to use the feature must have the spirit summoned and would need to sacrifice it. With that said, I do like that it brings you to half your hit points instead giving you a ton of temp hit points. Not much more I can say about this one, its just a mixed bag for me.
Does it lose out on saving throws? it says challenges +PB. Guess saving throws aren't really a challenge than? Never looked that in depth at the terminology.
I agree the BA teleport is nice I dont agree its one of the strongest features out there. you need to be within 5 feet of it as do the people getting exploded on, and its a 15 foot move 2d6 /save for no damage attack, but you are correct it doesn't actually say you need to land in the same formation so you could end up with your tank upfront n casters in back if things got messy but you where still all clumped up which I hadn't thought of before.. and it does go after you so it could be a bit more useful than I'm giving it credit for..
hmm interesting, what about offensive power in general? I've not really looked at the druid in depth, mostly BF control than attacking? Kinda leaning more to playing one as a goblin, know the stats dont line up but fury of the small, dark vision and disengage/hide without having to rely on having the spirit out could be fun and shillelagh gets around dump stating str if get stuck in melee (tho again could always disengage or spirit teleport)
Does it lose out on saving throws? it says challenges +PB. Guess saving throws aren't really a challenge than? Never looked that in depth at the terminology.
I just double checked in case I overlooked it like I did with the primal companions, and there is nothing. The "Challenge" tag you're referring to is the Challenge rating tag of stat blocks, I personally thought it was weird they put that there and unsure if having one that changes will do anything, but I haven't looked into that.
hmm interesting, what about offensive power in general? I've not really looked at the druid in depth, mostly BF control than attacking? Kinda leaning more to playing one as a goblin, know the stats dont line up but fury of the small, dark vision and disengage/hide without having to rely on having the spirit out could be fun and shillelagh gets around dump stating str if get stuck in melee (tho again could always disengage or spirit teleport)
I've always been told, since I've yet to officially play a druid yet, that druids fit more into the control and support roles. With this subclass, I saw a chance for WotC to push a druid subclass more into the damage caster role, which with the spells given it's still pretty easy to do but it'd just be without fireball.
Does it lose out on saving throws? it says challenges +PB. Guess saving throws aren't really a challenge than? Never looked that in depth at the terminology.
I agree the BA teleport is nice I dont agree its one of the strongest features out there. you need to be within 5 feet of it as do the people getting exploded on, and its a 15 foot move 2d6 /save for no damage attack, but you are correct it doesn't actually say you need to land in the same formation so you could end up with your tank upfront n casters in back if things got messy but you where still all clumped up which I hadn't thought of before.. and it does go after you so it could be a bit more useful than I'm giving it credit for..
hmm interesting, what about offensive power in general? I've not really looked at the druid in depth, mostly BF control than attacking? Kinda leaning more to playing one as a goblin, know the stats dont line up but fury of the small, dark vision and disengage/hide without having to rely on having the spirit out could be fun and shillelagh gets around dump stating str if get stuck in melee (tho again could always disengage or spirit teleport)
Perhaps "the strongest feature" was a bit too much..
But the teleport is one of the defining features of this class, and it's really good. I think the wildfire druid is great for a 2 level dip, the one thing your wildfire spirit is missing out, is hp, and I think that's not as important for ranged/teleporting companion.
I am also thinking about a twilight cleric 18 / wildfire druid 2 build. Use your channel divinity option to give your whole party including your spirit tmp hp every round and teleporting and reposition the party every round. Sounds really strong and tactical.
Seeing as how nearly everything first appears in UA content far more powerful than it should be, and that it will always get a proper balance pass before becoming official, no one should ever be surprised when a play test bit of content gets adjusted.
As it stands, I quite like the final version of Wildfire. One of my players used it for the first time tonight and the spirit did some pretty decent work and made for some interesting tactical situations. If you aren’t into Wildshape, this subclass gives you an interesting and viable option to use without also removing your ability to use Wildshape if you need to.
The Truth about the Druid is that it can do whatever you set it up to do. It does well in Control and Support but it doesn't have to do those. Druids can work just as well as Primary healers in most respects. They can be powerful offensive casters considering they actually have some pretty strong Elemental spells (some of which are practically druid only if something like Tasha's hasn't changed that.) Cleric's beat them out for pure defensive buffing perhaps and a couple of the martial classes will inevitably hit hard in pure melee. But druids are no slouches.
On top of that. A number of their subclass archetypes actually lend themselves to doing more than one task. Though a few are fairly specialized to primarily doing one style of things. So don't think that if you play a druid you can only do shape changing or you can only do control and support for your party.
As a caster druid, it really should have gotten a third cantrip when the subclasses was selected (like land, stars, spores gets). If they didn't like it getting firebolt, it should have gotten a choice of the fire related druid cantrips (control flame, bonfire, or produce flame).
Also, the wildfire spirit should have a melee attack of some sort so it doesn't have disadvantages when attacking adjacent targets.
As a caster druid, it really should have gotten a third cantrip when the subclasses was selected (like land, stars, spores gets). If they didn't like it getting firebolt, it should have gotten a choice of the fire related druid cantrips (control flame, bonfire, or produce flame).
Well, Wildfire druids did lose a cantrip but gained always prepared 1st level spells which no other druid subclass gets. I'll take what I can get.
Honestly more upset at the loss of Firebolt than Fireball. Fireball is iconic but druid has plenty of decently hard-hitting aoe spells, but I think Firebolt would be nice to have since Druid doesn't particularly have any good ranged cantrips. Produce Flame is alright I guess. If it had more range, I wouldn't be complaining. Every other change is fine in my opinion.
Definitely a playable class and a thematic one at that, but I would also check out the reprinted Spores druid and the new Stars druid, both of which have alternate uses for their wild shape. There's also a new optional class feature to use a wild shape charge to cast a weaker Find Familiar that lasts for a decent amount of hours, so if you're wanting more uses for Wild Shape then I'd recommend asking your DM if those new rules are ok.
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
you can always regain firebolt with a ravnica background as well.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Also, the wildfire spirit should have a melee attack of some sort so it doesn't have disadvantages when attacking adjacent targets.
Why are so many people missing on Fiery Teleportation? Imagine a cantrip with 1d6+prof bonus fire aoe damage and a 15 feet teleport for you and your party. And now imagine that cantrip is cast with a bonus action... That's Fiery Teleportation!
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So each time we start a campaign I'm always tempted to play a druid but I never do. I'm not really a huge fan of wildshape and like that there's more druid classes coming out that don't rely on it.
Wildfire caught my eye, I hear it's been nerfed from UA and some people are upset, I get that but as it stands in print what are your thoughts on the class as far as the mechanics go? I like it in concept of destruction and regrowth, and the idea of a fiery pet that offers some benefits so am curious to hear what any of you might think of it.
I was excited about it, but the loss of firebolt and fireball really turn me off. Those to me, are the two most iconic fire spells of 5e. I've not been able to make myself look past the spell list to look at the rest of the features that remain.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
My opinion is similar to hawk. I was stupid excited about the subclass, but that turned to mixed excitement due to some of the spell changes. I do still plan on playing it at some point but not sure when now.
When it comes the removal of raise dead for mass cure wounds, I do like that change and the same goes for the addition of Revivify, but that should has replaced Plant Growth and not Fireball. As for Firebolt, I wasn't the biggest fan of it being the bonus cantrip and would rather liked Produce Flame as the bonus cantrip instead. Now, did the removal of the cantrip come at the addition of the 1st level spells of the list, maybe, but if I had to pick a bonus cantrip or two auto-prepared 1st level spells... I'd probably pick the 2.
edit: Just looked at the UA spell list and more was changed than I remembered. For the most part I do like the changes, but the removal of Fireball was stupid.
Released Wildfire / UA Wildfire
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The 10th level feature is kind of "meh" to me. I get it, but having it be triggered by someone moving into a 5-ft space is.....not great. Too conditional imo.
Also...fire resistance is so common, it feels like a feat tax.
Fire subclass with no fireball?
It's really sad, that all people think that wildfire was nerfed. The opposite is the case: it was buffed, massevly!
Your spirit can now use Fiery Teleportation at will. With your bonus action, you can teleport the whole party 15 feet and damage surrounding enemies. That's so strong. You can position the entire party in a new arrangement, the party doesn't need to be in the same formation when they were teleported. This is one of the strongest features ever!
I didnt say it was nerfed, I said they took away some of the things that attracted me to it in the first place. It might be great, I'm just not interested in it any longer.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
after doing a thorough rereading of both the UA and the released versions of the wildfire druid, this is what I think;
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Does it lose out on saving throws? it says challenges +PB. Guess saving throws aren't really a challenge than? Never looked that in depth at the terminology.
I agree the BA teleport is nice I dont agree its one of the strongest features out there. you need to be within 5 feet of it as do the people getting exploded on, and its a 15 foot move 2d6 /save for no damage attack, but you are correct it doesn't actually say you need to land in the same formation so you could end up with your tank upfront n casters in back if things got messy but you where still all clumped up which I hadn't thought of before.. and it does go after you so it could be a bit more useful than I'm giving it credit for..
hmm interesting, what about offensive power in general? I've not really looked at the druid in depth, mostly BF control than attacking? Kinda leaning more to playing one as a goblin, know the stats dont line up but fury of the small, dark vision and disengage/hide without having to rely on having the spirit out could be fun and shillelagh gets around dump stating str if get stuck in melee (tho again could always disengage or spirit teleport)
I just double checked in case I overlooked it like I did with the primal companions, and there is nothing. The "Challenge" tag you're referring to is the Challenge rating tag of stat blocks, I personally thought it was weird they put that there and unsure if having one that changes will do anything, but I haven't looked into that.
I've always been told, since I've yet to officially play a druid yet, that druids fit more into the control and support roles. With this subclass, I saw a chance for WotC to push a druid subclass more into the damage caster role, which with the spells given it's still pretty easy to do but it'd just be without fireball.
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Perhaps "the strongest feature" was a bit too much..
But the teleport is one of the defining features of this class, and it's really good. I think the wildfire druid is great for a 2 level dip, the one thing your wildfire spirit is missing out, is hp, and I think that's not as important for ranged/teleporting companion.
I am also thinking about a twilight cleric 18 / wildfire druid 2 build. Use your channel divinity option to give your whole party including your spirit tmp hp every round and teleporting and reposition the party every round. Sounds really strong and tactical.
Seeing as how nearly everything first appears in UA content far more powerful than it should be, and that it will always get a proper balance pass before becoming official, no one should ever be surprised when a play test bit of content gets adjusted.
As it stands, I quite like the final version of Wildfire. One of my players used it for the first time tonight and the spirit did some pretty decent work and made for some interesting tactical situations. If you aren’t into Wildshape, this subclass gives you an interesting and viable option to use without also removing your ability to use Wildshape if you need to.
The Truth about the Druid is that it can do whatever you set it up to do. It does well in Control and Support but it doesn't have to do those. Druids can work just as well as Primary healers in most respects. They can be powerful offensive casters considering they actually have some pretty strong Elemental spells (some of which are practically druid only if something like Tasha's hasn't changed that.) Cleric's beat them out for pure defensive buffing perhaps and a couple of the martial classes will inevitably hit hard in pure melee. But druids are no slouches.
On top of that. A number of their subclass archetypes actually lend themselves to doing more than one task. Though a few are fairly specialized to primarily doing one style of things. So don't think that if you play a druid you can only do shape changing or you can only do control and support for your party.
As a caster druid, it really should have gotten a third cantrip when the subclasses was selected (like land, stars, spores gets). If they didn't like it getting firebolt, it should have gotten a choice of the fire related druid cantrips (control flame, bonfire, or produce flame).
Also, the wildfire spirit should have a melee attack of some sort so it doesn't have disadvantages when attacking adjacent targets.
Well, Wildfire druids did lose a cantrip but gained always prepared 1st level spells which no other druid subclass gets. I'll take what I can get.
Yeah, I did find that weird myself.
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I'm going to replace Plant Growth with Fireball and give them Fire Bolt still. Otherwise, they're still a really good subclass for druids.
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Honestly more upset at the loss of Firebolt than Fireball. Fireball is iconic but druid has plenty of decently hard-hitting aoe spells, but I think Firebolt would be nice to have since Druid doesn't particularly have any good ranged cantrips. Produce Flame is alright I guess. If it had more range, I wouldn't be complaining. Every other change is fine in my opinion.
Definitely a playable class and a thematic one at that, but I would also check out the reprinted Spores druid and the new Stars druid, both of which have alternate uses for their wild shape. There's also a new optional class feature to use a wild shape charge to cast a weaker Find Familiar that lasts for a decent amount of hours, so if you're wanting more uses for Wild Shape then I'd recommend asking your DM if those new rules are ok.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
you can always regain firebolt with a ravnica background as well.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Why are so many people missing on Fiery Teleportation? Imagine a cantrip with 1d6+prof bonus fire aoe damage and a 15 feet teleport for you and your party. And now imagine that cantrip is cast with a bonus action... That's Fiery Teleportation!