I know that it's a weird room scenario and everything but surely it's reasonable to expect that a ranged shopper will fight from the maximum available range? Well, 30ft within so we can catch creatures that Dash in the other direction. If so, with Sharpshooter leaving no disadvantage on long range the fighter can mostly stay out of the way of the wizard's most debilitating spells (60ft for most, a higher 100ft for Forcecage) and to get in range the wizard would have to teleport closer to the fighter damaging action economy and damage output for that turn.
Just trying to illustrate that implementation of all the factors, such as snipers not working from about 30ft has a not inconsiderable impact on the legitimacy of the fight.
Wizard casting Shapechange orInvulnerability on themselves works regardless of range. Then they can dimension door with zero worry about consequences.
They could even just cast Resilient Sphere and wait them out. Or just teleport across the world and forget the fighter ever existed.
LMFAO. I'm talking about basic rules as written in the PHB as to why stupid sniper build doesn't work, not the legality of optional rules in the DMG. Perhaps you should read p146-147 and 168 again.
In the future it would be preferred if you quoted the rules or said which rules you were referring to in general. The reason being that listing page numbers doesn't tell us how it relates to the samurai fighter, and particularly for the D&D Beyond forums none of the digital books have page numbers (that I know of).
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
However, I do understand what you mean by page 168 and yeah, I agree. "You have advantage on melee attack rolls against unmounted creatures that are smaller than your mount." That is a genuine issue I didn't know about.
Replacing Disarm for knock prone does indeed allow the Wizard to hold a shield, which is enough to knock the fighter down to 229.3896.
However, you could just do both a disarm & a knock prone. That's lead to the ~277 damage from earlier, then grab Martial Adept or something for a extra d6 damage idk.
edit: I forgot Martial Adept doesn't just do d6 damage. Grab Tripping Maneuver and it works the exact same as before, actually bigger dps than the before 294 since +1d6. Bit less likely to work cause we're reliant on both Trip & Disarm to go off, but oh well.
Noteworthy that if you do so this build doesn't work if you disallow the instant Strength Before Death cheese, because removing 3 attacks does get you to 259.8254 damage.
I know that it's a weird room scenario and everything but surely it's reasonable to expect that a ranged shopper will fight from the maximum available range? Well, 30ft within so we can catch creatures that Dash in the other direction. If so, with Sharpshooter leaving no disadvantage on long range the fighter can mostly stay out of the way of the wizard's most debilitating spells (60ft for most, a higher 100ft for Forcecage) and to get in range the wizard would have to teleport closer to the fighter damaging action economy and damage output for that turn.
Just trying to illustrate that implementation of all the factors, such as snipers not working from about 30ft has a not inconsiderable impact on the legitimacy of the fight.
Wizard casting Shapechange orInvulnerability on themselves works regardless of range. Then they can dimension door with zero worry about consequences.
They could even just cast Resilient Sphere and wait them out. Or just teleport across the world and forget the fighter ever existed.
Yeah but that's not my point. All the nasty lockdown spells and most damage options become untenable so the fighter can now afford a few extra turns (I might be missing some combos or something - invulnerability would damage these chances) and the wizard will have to use an action (probably) to get in range. Waiting out is not really a viable strat since it changes nothing except some prep time is made available. It doesn't change everything, but utilising space does change some build considerations for both wizards and fighters.
We need to establish a good distance for the fight to start, because everyone seems to agree on “not melee,” but ranged fighters out range the wizard. If we start far enough, the fighter will get 2 turns before the wizard casts a fight-ending spell on them. If that happens, the fighter probably wins if the wizard can’t shapechange into something good enough to survive several turns. Some self-buffs like invulnerability probably still don’t care though.
And the arcane archer reaches a new level, banishing arrow is the best way to undo a shapechange from 300 feet.
We need to establish a good distance for the fight to start, because everyone seems to agree on “not melee,” but ranged fighters out range the wizard. If we start far enough, the fighter will get 2 turns before the wizard casts a fight-ending spell on them. If that happens, the fighter probably wins if the wizard can’t shapechange into something good enough to survive several turns. Some self-buffs like invulnerability probably still don’t care though.
And the arcane archer reaches a new level, banishing arrow is the best way to undo a shapechange from 300 feet.
As I said, Resilient Sphere, Contingency -> Resistant Sphere when I am closer to the archer, then Dimension Door straight to them.
There's probably a way of doing this that isn't as wasteful of spell slots but oh well.
Allows you to Dimension Door straight next to the AA and then instant Resistant Sphere. They cannot do anything about it, and you're right next to them. 500 feet should be good enough, if they are 600 feet away then ig use a more powerful teleport or just repeat the combo again.
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
P146 talks about donning and doffing armour. Why is that important? Look at what is on the list. Shields. Shields are strapped to the arm and carried in one hand. They take an action to take off, which means that they cannot be simply dropped. What does disarming do? Forces the target to drop a item they are holding or knocks an item from their hand. Can you drop a shield? No, it's strapped on. Can you knock a shield from a hand? No, it's strapped on. Can you disarm a shield? No, it's strapped to the arm. What does stupid sniper build rely on to work? Oh dear.
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
P146 talks about donning and doffing armour. Why is that important? Look at what is on the list. Shields. Shields are strapped to the arm and carried in one hand. They take an action to take off, which means that they cannot be simply dropped. What does disarming do? Forces the target to drop a item they are holding or knocks an item from their hand. Can you drop a shield? No, it's strapped on. Can you knock a shield from a hand? No, it's strapped on. Can you disarm a shield? No, it's strapped to the arm. What does stupid sniper build rely on to work? Oh dear.
2 ac doesn’t actually account for that much compared to strength before death. That’s 1 or 2 attacks turned from hit to miss, and neither crits. It weakens the setup a bit, but it doesn’t rely on it. We can now also add something else to replace disarming attack, adding some of the lost damage back. And sage advice is the source I’d use for this, the Phb isn’t that clear on the topic in comparison.
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We need to establish a good distance for the fight to start, because everyone seems to agree on “not melee,” but ranged fighters out range the wizard. If we start far enough, the fighter will get 2 turns before the wizard casts a fight-ending spell on them. If that happens, the fighter probably wins if the wizard can’t shapechange into something good enough to survive several turns. Some self-buffs like invulnerability probably still don’t care though.
And the arcane archer reaches a new level, banishing arrow is the best way to undo a shapechange from 300 feet.
As I said, Resilient Sphere, Contingency -> Resistant Sphere when I am closer to the archer, then Dimension Door straight to them.
There's probably a way of doing this that isn't as wasteful of spell slots but oh well.
Allows you to Dimension Door straight next to the AA and then instant Resistant Sphere. They cannot do anything about it, and you're right next to them. 500 feet should be good enough, if they are 600 feet away then ig use a more powerful teleport or just repeat the combo again.
Contingency first cast inside a resilient sphere? Doesn't last long enough for a complete casting. If beforehand, I need reminding if prep time is allowed.
We need to establish a good distance for the fight to start [cut]
[cut] Resilient Sphere, Contingency -> Resistant Sphere when I am closer to the archer, then Dimension Door [cut]
Contingency first cast inside a resilient sphere? Doesn't last long enough for a complete casting. If beforehand, I need reminding if prep time is allowed.
My bad, I guess you could use forcecage but that seems a little obsessive. I mean, it would work, but does anyone know of a better way?
And the arcane archer reaches a new level, banishing arrow is the best way to undo a shapechange from 300 feet.
I think most shapechanged forms have more legendary resistances than Arcane Archers have banishing arrows, and it's not like they need them for anything else.
Contingency first cast inside a resilient sphere? Doesn't last long enough for a complete casting. If beforehand, I need reminding if prep time is allowed.
My bad, I guess you could use forcecage but that seems a little obsessive.
Yeah, just a bit. Also a self-forcecage gets you no defence from a fighter teleporting in. It's just out that's the tricky bit. So an Eladrin Fey Step in the middle of the Contingency casting would get in just fine. The fighter could pick the timing that way too so the wizard could only get off a reaction spell before the killing starts. Teleport out would be possible though and certain if you used a Chronurgist/Diviner type ability. Adds an interesting element to the whole thing I think.
Edit: Other issues with Otiluke's Resilient Sphere are that it's a concentration spell and casting a spell with longer than 1 action casting takes concentration too. Without magic items, it's impossible to do.
Yeah, just a bit. Also a self-forcecage gets you no defence from a fighter teleporting in. It's just out that's the tricky bit. So an Eladrin Fey Step in the middle of the Contingency casting would get in just fine. The fighter could pick the timing that way too so the wizard could only get off a reaction spell before the killing starts. Teleport out would be possible though and certain if you used a Chronurgist/Diviner type ability. Adds an interesting element to the whole thing I think.
Edit: Other issues with Otiluke's Resilient Sphere are that it's a concentration spell and casting a spell with longer than 1 action casting takes concentration too. Without magic items, it's impossible to do.
The whole point of starting with self-forcecage was because the fighter was 300 feet away, if the fighter moves within fey step distance you probably already stopped casting contingency at the 100 ft mark. Also, the forcecage states "up to 10ft" so in this case it'd probably be a 5 ft by 5 ft area leaving no room for fey step which requires an empty space.
I do think that yeah overall it's still a little iffy, because I want to maintain enough spell slots to be able to forcecage the fighter a couple times just in case of possible teleporting out.
Forcecage Self -> Contigency (Resistant Sphere) (forcecage is not concentration) -> teleport straight to them is a lot of spell slots being used up, and again yeah having to succeed on that saving throw using Chronurgist is indeed a very hefty price.
I mentioned this earlier in the thread but I'd be more interested to see who would win a best of three with only a short rest between matches (but full HP recovery? Or maybe half? Or even just hit dice). That strikes me as a more interesting solution to the question as well because it forces the wizard to conserve resources and adds another layer of strategy to the game because then (if hit dice recovery only) which abilities do you choose to use when? It becomes an endurance fight. Oh, and either side should be able to 'tap out' on their turn. Forgo their actions to lose the fight if they feel they have to.
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
P146 talks about donning and doffing armour. Why is that important? Look at what is on the list. Shields. Shields are strapped to the arm and carried in one hand. They take an action to take off, which means that they cannot be simply dropped. What does disarming do? Forces the target to drop a item they are holding or knocks an item from their hand. Can you drop a shield? No, it's strapped on. Can you knock a shield from a hand? No, it's strapped on. Can you disarm a shield? No, it's strapped to the arm. What does stupid sniper build rely on to work? Oh dear.
2 ac doesn’t actually account for that much compared to strength before death. That’s 1 or 2 attacks turned from hit to miss, and neither crits. It weakens the setup a bit, but it doesn’t rely on it. We can now also add something else to replace disarming attack, adding some of the lost damage back. And sage advice is the source I’d use for this, the Phb isn’t that clear on the topic in comparison.
Not true. That 2AC loss is what tips the average damage over the upper limit of the Dread build with 265HP. There is no single attack that a fighter can make that adds enough average damage at AC 25.
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
P146 talks about donning and doffing armour. Why is that important? Look at what is on the list. Shields. Shields are strapped to the arm and carried in one hand. They take an action to take off, which means that they cannot be simply dropped. What does disarming do? Forces the target to drop a item they are holding or knocks an item from their hand. Can you drop a shield? No, it's strapped on. Can you knock a shield from a hand? No, it's strapped on. Can you disarm a shield? No, it's strapped to the arm. What does stupid sniper build rely on to work? Oh dear.
2 ac doesn’t actually account for that much compared to strength before death. That’s 1 or 2 attacks turned from hit to miss, and neither crits. It weakens the setup a bit, but it doesn’t rely on it. We can now also add something else to replace disarming attack, adding some of the lost damage back. And sage advice is the source I’d use for this, the Phb isn’t that clear on the topic in comparison.
Not true. That 2AC loss is what tips the average damage over the upper limit of the Dread build with 265HP. There is no single attack that a fighter can make that adds enough average damage at AC 25.
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
P146 talks about donning and doffing armour. Why is that important? Look at what is on the list. Shields. Shields are strapped to the arm and carried in one hand. They take an action to take off, which means that they cannot be simply dropped. What does disarming do? Forces the target to drop a item they are holding or knocks an item from their hand. Can you drop a shield? No, it's strapped on. Can you knock a shield from a hand? No, it's strapped on. Can you disarm a shield? No, it's strapped to the arm. What does stupid sniper build rely on to work? Oh dear.
2 ac doesn’t actually account for that much compared to strength before death. That’s 1 or 2 attacks turned from hit to miss, and neither crits. It weakens the setup a bit, but it doesn’t rely on it. We can now also add something else to replace disarming attack, adding some of the lost damage back. And sage advice is the source I’d use for this, the Phb isn’t that clear on the topic in comparison.
Not true. That 2AC loss is what tips the average damage over the upper limit of the Dread build with 265HP. There is no single attack that a fighter can make that adds enough average damage at AC 25.
It impresses me that this thread is going on 55 pages lol.
Especially since if the wizard wins initiative, they can cast Invulnerability with immunity to all damage for ten minutes. I would then kill the fighter with firebolt, just because I could. :)
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
P146 talks about donning and doffing armour. Why is that important? Look at what is on the list. Shields. Shields are strapped to the arm and carried in one hand. They take an action to take off, which means that they cannot be simply dropped. What does disarming do? Forces the target to drop a item they are holding or knocks an item from their hand. Can you drop a shield? No, it's strapped on. Can you knock a shield from a hand? No, it's strapped on. Can you disarm a shield? No, it's strapped to the arm. What does stupid sniper build rely on to work? Oh dear.
2 ac doesn’t actually account for that much compared to strength before death. That’s 1 or 2 attacks turned from hit to miss, and neither crits. It weakens the setup a bit, but it doesn’t rely on it. We can now also add something else to replace disarming attack, adding some of the lost damage back. And sage advice is the source I’d use for this, the Phb isn’t that clear on the topic in comparison.
Not true. That 2AC loss is what tips the average damage over the upper limit of the Dread build with 265HP. There is no single attack that a fighter can make that adds enough average damage at AC 25.
Use disarming attack on the spell focus, then they can't cast spells, at all, unless they were smart enough to have multiple spell foci. ;) lol
This only applies to spells with material components. Invulnerability begone, but no effect on wish. Still a valid strategy though, other than the fact that the wizard can just pick it up.
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It impresses me that this thread is going on 55 pages lol.
Especially since if the wizard wins initiative, they can cast Invulnerability with immunity to all damage for ten minutes. I would then kill the fighter with firebolt, just because I could. :)
You really think the whole thing was who would win and not “wizard wins but I have a problem with how they win”? How cute.
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Not true. That 2AC loss is what tips the average damage over the upper limit of the Dread build with 265HP. There is no single attack that a fighter can make that adds enough average damage at AC 25.
That is true. It's worth noting that the Sage Advice doesn't actually apply here, because we aren't using the disarm maneuver, but we are instead using the optional generic disarm attack which uses different wording (Sage Advice states it doesn't work because the maneuver requires the object to be "held", however the Disarm Attack instead uses "grasp").
However, I assume that this ruling was supposed to apply to both, since you know, both revolve around disarming and unless you have a really convincing argument, I'm pretty sure grasp and hold mean the same thing in this context.
And it is true that AC 25 is enough to push Samurai down to 231.7205. Even replacing Mounted Combatant with Martial Adept won't make up being ~33 damage under, when your average damage per attack is ~22.
So as far as I can tell Samurai would need modern/futuristic weaponry to make that gap, and even then, initiative wizard still exists.
We stopped arguing about which class would win a while back, initiative wizard beats all fighter builds. We've mostly been arguing about if it's possible to make a strategy where fighter has even less of a chance of winning, or if there's certain situations where a fighter could possibly win (such as the fighter is 300 ft away thing).
You're gonna want to quote someone there so we know who you're talking to.
Chilling kinda vibe.
Wizard casting Shapechange orInvulnerability on themselves works regardless of range. Then they can dimension door with zero worry about consequences.
They could even just cast Resilient Sphere and wait them out. Or just teleport across the world and forget the fighter ever existed.
In the future it would be preferred if you quoted the rules or said which rules you were referring to in general. The reason being that listing page numbers doesn't tell us how it relates to the samurai fighter, and particularly for the D&D Beyond forums none of the digital books have page numbers (that I know of).
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
However, I do understand what you mean by page 168 and yeah, I agree. "You have advantage on melee attack rolls against unmounted creatures that are smaller than your mount." That is a genuine issue I didn't know about.
Replacing Disarm for knock prone does indeed allow the Wizard to hold a shield, which is enough to knock the fighter down to 229.3896.
However, you could just do both a disarm & a knock prone. That's lead to the ~277 damage from earlier, thengrab Martial Adeptor something for a extra d6 damage idk.edit: I forgot Martial Adept doesn't just do d6 damage. Grab Tripping Maneuver and it works the exact same as before, actually bigger dps than the before 294 since +1d6. Bit less likely to work cause we're reliant on both Trip & Disarm to go off, but oh well.
Noteworthy that if you do so this build doesn't work if you disallow the instant Strength Before Death cheese, because removing 3 attacks does get you to 259.8254 damage.if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Yeah but that's not my point. All the nasty lockdown spells and most damage options become untenable so the fighter can now afford a few extra turns (I might be missing some combos or something - invulnerability would damage these chances) and the wizard will have to use an action (probably) to get in range. Waiting out is not really a viable strat since it changes nothing except some prep time is made available. It doesn't change everything, but utilising space does change some build considerations for both wizards and fighters.
Chilling kinda vibe.
We need to establish a good distance for the fight to start, because everyone seems to agree on “not melee,” but ranged fighters out range the wizard. If we start far enough, the fighter will get 2 turns before the wizard casts a fight-ending spell on them. If that happens, the fighter probably wins if the wizard can’t shapechange into something good enough to survive several turns. Some self-buffs like invulnerability probably still don’t care though.
And the arcane archer reaches a new level, banishing arrow is the best way to undo a shapechange from 300 feet.
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As I said, Resilient Sphere, Contingency -> Resistant Sphere when I am closer to the archer, then Dimension Door straight to them.
There's probably a way of doing this that isn't as wasteful of spell slots but oh well.
Allows you to Dimension Door straight next to the AA and then instant Resistant Sphere. They cannot do anything about it, and you're right next to them. 500 feet should be good enough, if they are 600 feet away then ig use a more powerful teleport or just repeat the combo again.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Pages 146-147 don't relate to the Samurai build because the Samurai doesn't wear armor and the weapon isn't included here. If you're talking about the Strength Before Death cheese, is a well-honored white-room tradition for 1 hp Samurais to go out and attack themselves, which would lead to ~277 damage instead of ~294. Still enouhg.
P146 talks about donning and doffing armour. Why is that important? Look at what is on the list. Shields. Shields are strapped to the arm and carried in one hand. They take an action to take off, which means that they cannot be simply dropped. What does disarming do? Forces the target to drop a item they are holding or knocks an item from their hand. Can you drop a shield? No, it's strapped on. Can you knock a shield from a hand? No, it's strapped on. Can you disarm a shield? No, it's strapped to the arm. What does stupid sniper build rely on to work? Oh dear.
2 ac doesn’t actually account for that much compared to strength before death. That’s 1 or 2 attacks turned from hit to miss, and neither crits. It weakens the setup a bit, but it doesn’t rely on it. We can now also add something else to replace disarming attack, adding some of the lost damage back. And sage advice is the source I’d use for this, the Phb isn’t that clear on the topic in comparison.
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Contingency first cast inside a resilient sphere? Doesn't last long enough for a complete casting. If beforehand, I need reminding if prep time is allowed.
Chilling kinda vibe.
My bad, I guess you could use forcecage but that seems a little obsessive. I mean, it would work, but does anyone know of a better way?
I think most shapechanged forms have more legendary resistances than Arcane Archers have banishing arrows, and it's not like they need them for anything else.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Yeah, just a bit. Also a self-forcecage gets you no defence from a fighter teleporting in. It's just out that's the tricky bit. So an Eladrin Fey Step in the middle of the Contingency casting would get in just fine. The fighter could pick the timing that way too so the wizard could only get off a reaction spell before the killing starts. Teleport out would be possible though and certain if you used a Chronurgist/Diviner type ability. Adds an interesting element to the whole thing I think.
Edit: Other issues with Otiluke's Resilient Sphere are that it's a concentration spell and casting a spell with longer than 1 action casting takes concentration too. Without magic items, it's impossible to do.
Chilling kinda vibe.
The whole point of starting with self-forcecage was because the fighter was 300 feet away, if the fighter moves within fey step distance you probably already stopped casting contingency at the 100 ft mark. Also, the forcecage states "up to 10ft" so in this case it'd probably be a 5 ft by 5 ft area leaving no room for fey step which requires an empty space.
I do think that yeah overall it's still a little iffy, because I want to maintain enough spell slots to be able to forcecage the fighter a couple times just in case of possible teleporting out.
Forcecage Self -> Contigency (Resistant Sphere) (forcecage is not concentration) -> teleport straight to them is a lot of spell slots being used up, and again yeah having to succeed on that saving throw using Chronurgist is indeed a very hefty price.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
I mentioned this earlier in the thread but I'd be more interested to see who would win a best of three with only a short rest between matches (but full HP recovery? Or maybe half? Or even just hit dice). That strikes me as a more interesting solution to the question as well because it forces the wizard to conserve resources and adds another layer of strategy to the game because then (if hit dice recovery only) which abilities do you choose to use when? It becomes an endurance fight. Oh, and either side should be able to 'tap out' on their turn. Forgo their actions to lose the fight if they feel they have to.
Chilling kinda vibe.
Not true. That 2AC loss is what tips the average damage over the upper limit of the Dread build with 265HP. There is no single attack that a fighter can make that adds enough average damage at AC 25.
It's also in the Sage Advice Compendium that you cannot disarm a shield https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#Combat
Deathknight, if you remove disarming attack, what would you add instead to maximize damage?
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It impresses me that this thread is going on 55 pages lol.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Use disarming attack on the spell focus, then they can't cast spells, at all, unless they were smart enough to have multiple spell foci. ;) lol
Especially since if the wizard wins initiative, they can cast Invulnerability with immunity to all damage for ten minutes. I would then kill the fighter with firebolt, just because I could. :)
This only applies to spells with material components. Invulnerability begone, but no effect on wish. Still a valid strategy though, other than the fact that the wizard can just pick it up.
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You really think the whole thing was who would win and not “wizard wins but I have a problem with how they win”? How cute.
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That is true. It's worth noting that the Sage Advice doesn't actually apply here, because we aren't using the disarm maneuver, but we are instead using the optional generic disarm attack which uses different wording (Sage Advice states it doesn't work because the maneuver requires the object to be "held", however the Disarm Attack instead uses "grasp").
However, I assume that this ruling was supposed to apply to both, since you know, both revolve around disarming and unless you have a really convincing argument, I'm pretty sure grasp and hold mean the same thing in this context.
And it is true that AC 25 is enough to push Samurai down to 231.7205. Even replacing Mounted Combatant with Martial Adept won't make up being ~33 damage under, when your average damage per attack is ~22.
So as far as I can tell Samurai would need modern/futuristic weaponry to make that gap, and even then, initiative wizard still exists.
We stopped arguing about which class would win a while back, initiative wizard beats all fighter builds. We've mostly been arguing about if it's possible to make a strategy where fighter has even less of a chance of winning, or if there's certain situations where a fighter could possibly win (such as the fighter is 300 ft away thing).
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.