Nerfed from what? It's an independent game. That said, I think every edition of D&D saw a max-level wizard as more powerful than a max-level fighter. It's part of the nature of those two classes that the wizard starts much weaker than the fighter starts, and ends much stronger. I mean, the wizard can change reality itself with top level spells. It's hard for any class to beat that. But surviving to that highest level is intended as nearly impossible straight through from first level. The chances of dying along the way are quite high - higher than they are for the fighter.
In 5e the playing field is much more level compared to 3.5 - Spellcasters took a huge hit to number of spells per day, plus they can only Concentrate on 1 spell at a time. Depending on spell selections and some of the dice rolls, it could go either way.
Fighter would win pretty much 100% of the time if he makes his first few saves.
The Wizard just doesn't have the HP if the Fighter can get in Melee.
Sharpshooter or Mage Slayer would be REALLY helpful in this fight (Get cover, ignores up to 3/4 cover, can get higher damage with minimal miss chance vs. a lightly armored mage).
I think you guys are REALLY badly underestimating the Wizard in this scenario. The fighter will never get anywhere near the wizard. There are tons of spells that end the battle in one spell. And summon other powerful creatures to fight the fighter as well. Lots of protection spells for the wizard too. Why are you guys assuming the fighter just gets to walk up and start pounding on the wizard?
As @Sorce already said, the main limitation here is the concentration. If the wizard summons a creature, then cannot cast many protection spell. At higher level the fighter get something like 4 attacks in 1 action.
But no one can say who wins here. It is strongly situational.
I think it really depends on the magic items available to both characters, the terrain available, and the builds. A champion archer with a +3 longbow (or heavy crossbow), mantle of spell resistance, +3 arrows, and Ioun Stone of Greater Absorption may stand a fairly good chance. It really all depends on the situation the two combatants are placed in.
With no preparation, a battlemaster with sharpshooter and crossbow expert would had 50%+ chance to kill the wizard in the first round (even the wizard using shield) if he win the initiative (action surge + superiority dice).
But isn't a fair comparison, because 99,9% of campaings aren't PvP, and have too much variables in the game.
Against the BBEG with his legendary resistance, maybe you would prefer to have a fighter in your group than a wizard.
Battlemaster with GWM could also easily do 200 points of damage in the first round, if she wins initiative and everyone is starting with no buff spells or magic equipment. The best AC the wizard could have is 20 with the shield spell. A 9 or higher would beat that. Then you do a trip attack, which requires a strength save and adds 1d12 of damage. The wizard will likely fail and be knocked prone. With action surge that's 7 more attacks made at advantage. With precision strike still available, most to all of those will hit for 2d6+15 each. If one of those many rolls is a critical, you get a bonus attack for another 2d6+15. Even with average damage rolls, you're looking at 200 points of damage. That's going to kill even a level 20 wizard.
Of course, if the characters start far apart, so the fighter can't attack on the first round, he'll likely lose as the wizard has so many options. If the wizard wins initiative, battle will probably go to the wizard. A fighter definitely has a chance, though.
The Fighter would probably win, all those attacks, action surge- they're probably packing great weapon master or sharpshooter too, they just need to get up to the wizard and nova with their action surge, indomitable helps with that.
If the fighter fails one single saving throw, the whole battle is over. The wizard has almost nothing else to focus on for their entire career. They don't need to focus on armor or weapons or saves or stats other than Intelligence.
This, like all PC vs. PC junk-wiggling contests, is determined by a few factors; which is more prepared to battle the other (a thing that is often assumed to be in the wizard's favor, because once the junk-wiggling begins all wizards seem to be given the advantage of having every spell in their spell book, and having chosen just the right ones to prepare today), and who is having better luck with their dice (a thing that is often complete discounted in junk-wiggling contests) being the factors with the most impact.
The good news is that in 5th edition, the answer to this question is that either the fighter or the wizard can win, with both having pretty even odds when considering all possible builds of each - unlike prior editions that might have no more to figuring out who would win than the initiative roll (or a checklist of pre-cast buff spells the fighter has to have a way around in order to stand a chance).
Since this is the Fighter thread, I'll put it this way: if Taliesin Jaffe is playing the fighter, fighter wins. If Wil Wheaton is playing the fighter, fighter loses. ;p And that being said, we do NOT talk about Fighter club ;)
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Nerfed from what? It's an independent game. That said, I think every edition of D&D saw a max-level wizard as more powerful than a max-level fighter. It's part of the nature of those two classes that the wizard starts much weaker than the fighter starts, and ends much stronger. I mean, the wizard can change reality itself with top level spells. It's hard for any class to beat that. But surviving to that highest level is intended as nearly impossible straight through from first level. The chances of dying along the way are quite high - higher than they are for the fighter.
In 5e the playing field is much more level compared to 3.5 - Spellcasters took a huge hit to number of spells per day, plus they can only Concentrate on 1 spell at a time. Depending on spell selections and some of the dice rolls, it could go either way.
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Wary the wizard who focuses on homebrew, for he can create nightmares that you wouldn't even dream of
I believe the fighter with few magic items is a real nightmare for the wizards.
Wizards to win needs to prepare beforehand, the fighter doesn't.
Fighter would win pretty much 100% of the time if he makes his first few saves.
The Wizard just doesn't have the HP if the Fighter can get in Melee.
Sharpshooter or Mage Slayer would be REALLY helpful in this fight (Get cover, ignores up to 3/4 cover, can get higher damage with minimal miss chance vs. a lightly armored mage).
I think you guys are REALLY badly underestimating the Wizard in this scenario. The fighter will never get anywhere near the wizard. There are tons of spells that end the battle in one spell. And summon other powerful creatures to fight the fighter as well. Lots of protection spells for the wizard too. Why are you guys assuming the fighter just gets to walk up and start pounding on the wizard?
As @Sorce already said, the main limitation here is the concentration. If the wizard summons a creature, then cannot cast many protection spell. At higher level the fighter get something like 4 attacks in 1 action.
But no one can say who wins here. It is strongly situational.
I think it really depends on the magic items available to both characters, the terrain available, and the builds. A champion archer with a +3 longbow (or heavy crossbow), mantle of spell resistance, +3 arrows, and Ioun Stone of Greater Absorption may stand a fairly good chance. It really all depends on the situation the two combatants are placed in.
With no preparation, a battlemaster with sharpshooter and crossbow expert would had 50%+ chance to kill the wizard in the first round (even the wizard using shield) if he win the initiative (action surge + superiority dice).
But isn't a fair comparison, because 99,9% of campaings aren't PvP, and have too much variables in the game.
Against the BBEG with his legendary resistance, maybe you would prefer to have a fighter in your group than a wizard.
Battlemaster with GWM could also easily do 200 points of damage in the first round, if she wins initiative and everyone is starting with no buff spells or magic equipment. The best AC the wizard could have is 20 with the shield spell. A 9 or higher would beat that. Then you do a trip attack, which requires a strength save and adds 1d12 of damage. The wizard will likely fail and be knocked prone. With action surge that's 7 more attacks made at advantage. With precision strike still available, most to all of those will hit for 2d6+15 each. If one of those many rolls is a critical, you get a bonus attack for another 2d6+15. Even with average damage rolls, you're looking at 200 points of damage. That's going to kill even a level 20 wizard.
Of course, if the characters start far apart, so the fighter can't attack on the first round, he'll likely lose as the wizard has so many options. If the wizard wins initiative, battle will probably go to the wizard. A fighter definitely has a chance, though.
To echo what has been said before, doing class vs class battles have so much variety that without parameters it could go up either way.
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The Fighter would probably win, all those attacks, action surge- they're probably packing great weapon master or sharpshooter too, they just need to get up to the wizard and nova with their action surge, indomitable helps with that.
If the fighter fails one single saving throw, the whole battle is over. The wizard has almost nothing else to focus on for their entire career. They don't need to focus on armor or weapons or saves or stats other than Intelligence.
This, like all PC vs. PC junk-wiggling contests, is determined by a few factors; which is more prepared to battle the other (a thing that is often assumed to be in the wizard's favor, because once the junk-wiggling begins all wizards seem to be given the advantage of having every spell in their spell book, and having chosen just the right ones to prepare today), and who is having better luck with their dice (a thing that is often complete discounted in junk-wiggling contests) being the factors with the most impact.
The good news is that in 5th edition, the answer to this question is that either the fighter or the wizard can win, with both having pretty even odds when considering all possible builds of each - unlike prior editions that might have no more to figuring out who would win than the initiative roll (or a checklist of pre-cast buff spells the fighter has to have a way around in order to stand a chance).
Since this is the Fighter thread, I'll put it this way: if Taliesin Jaffe is playing the fighter, fighter wins. If Wil Wheaton is playing the fighter, fighter loses. ;p And that being said, we do NOT talk about Fighter club ;)